Author Topic: Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?  (Read 44199 times)

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Offline Nick DiMola

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RE: Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #225 on: July 19, 2007, 10:05:31 AM »
Comparing the Japanese market to the American market is a big mistake. As I recall, Aonuma and Miyamoto wanted to take Zelda in a new direction and the result was apparently very good, Bill Aurion has been gloating all over the damn forums. Last I checked, Galaxy is on path to be one of the best Mario games ever. I really don't see where they tinkered with the game any further than they did with Sunshine or Wind Waker. In the case of PH and Galaxy, all they did was modify the game to effectively take use of the new hardware. Why is that a crime? It's evolution.

EDIT: And maybe Nintendo constantly reiterating that they made the games more accessible is a way to alert that crowd that this is a game that will be enjoyable for them. As I said above, it doesn't seem like Nintendo has really made any big changes to either of the games, other than optimizing them for the platform they are featured on. Accessibility and ease of use is one of the ultimate achievements of a game. The easier a game is to experience the more fluid your experience with that game is.
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Offline Kairon

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RE:Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #226 on: July 19, 2007, 10:50:31 AM »
What are we talking about again?

Anyways, I'm just jazzed that we don't have a Gamecube 2 on our hands!
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #227 on: July 19, 2007, 10:53:09 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
What are we talking about again?

Anyways, I'm just jazzed that we don't have a Gamecube 2 on our hands!


I am sad that we don't have another Pong on our hands, Nintendo and everyone is ruining the essence of gaming!
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Offline UltimatePartyBear

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RE:Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #228 on: July 19, 2007, 11:25:48 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I am sad that we don't have another Pong on our hands, Nintendo and everyone is ruining the essence of gaming!

Pong was a travesty designed to appeal to a non-gamers.

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #229 on: July 19, 2007, 11:27:50 AM »
"And maybe Nintendo constantly reiterating that they made the games more accessible is a way to alert that crowd that this is a game that will be enjoyable for them. As I said above, it doesn't seem like Nintendo has really made any big changes to either of the games, other than optimizing them for the platform they are featured on. Accessibility and ease of use is one of the ultimate achievements of a game. The easier a game is to experience the more fluid your experience with that game is."

If Nintendo is just talking about making the game simpler and the resulting games are as they would have been anyway then I don't have a problem.  There's no way to prove that though.  What you're talking about sounds like Nintendo using non-games to trick non-gamers into becoming gamers.  I figure if Nintendo thought there games have always been accessible they would be mentioning how Mario Kart continues to be accessible since it was already instead of it becoming more accessible.  To say it the way they're saying it now is like putting down the old games as if they weren't okay to non-gamers but now these new ones are.  Considering they have a whole VC of "old" games that they would like everyone to buy I think acting like the old games needed to be fixed is not the best thing to say if your goal is just to trick non-gamers.

"Comparing the Japanese market to the American market is a big mistake."

Tell that to Nintendo.  ALL of this is based on Japan.  The Wii may be selling here but gamer drift isn't the big problem it is in Japan.  Hell everyone laughed at Iwata when he first talked about gamer drift because it didn't reflect the popularity of games here at all.  Twilight Princess' sales in American suggest that tinkering for non-gamers is not necessary but the Japan sales say it is.  Yet Nintendo is tinkering and it's not because of the encouraging American Zelda sales.  Non-gaming is a response to the Japanese market so everything Nintendo does for that new audience is going to be based on Japan.

Offline UERD

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RE:Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #230 on: July 19, 2007, 12:09:14 PM »
Quote

My argument is that very little of what Wii Fit is looks like a game.


Yeah, Brain Age didn't really look like a game either. What were we supposed to expect- shooting aliens on a distant planet while being yelled at by the disembodied head of a famous Japanese neuroscientist? Oh joy! Math problems! Not everything in Brain Age is what we'd perceive as 'fun'.

How many copies did Brain Age sell, again? People don't buy these things because they want engrossing, billion-polygon immersive gameplay experiences. Instead, all it really takes is for the game to be at least a bit more interesting than the alternative (doing a sheet of math problems, pushups in your bedroom, et al) for it to sell. People like having their progress tracked and displayed for them to see. It's common sense that the fat guy who goes on an exercise/diet regiment and sees he's losing a pound every week or so is more motivated to continue than the guy who does the same without a scale and is wondering is it really worth it all? Ultimately, that, and the interactivity, are what really make the difference.

Quote

Nintendo never learned how to compete in the old market.


The old market was not worth the effort. People wouldn't fully accept Nintendo games when they were innovative. They'd claim that Nintendo does no-imagination rehashes, and then happily snap up the latest generic FPS or sports game. What happened to all the unique games on XBox 360? How well did they sell? Nintendo had fundamental issues with the so-called self-identified gamer market, and they weren't magically going to go away 'if only Nintendo put in more effort'. Third-party relationships, public perception, the emergence of disruptive franchises like Halo, internal company culture...all these things make long-term planning a exercise in futility at best.

Nintendo could have taken the painstaking old road. Here's what would have had to happen.

- Nintendo keeps up in terms of hardware capabilities for the next ten years or so.
- They repair relationships with important third parties and get games like GTA and Final Fantasy.
- They have to get the public to accept that they are 'cool', even while their two established competitors throw more and more mud at them.
- They have to work on first-party games more 'in-line' with the majority perspective without losing their existing fans.
- They have to hope that some new innovation or game doesn't run away with the market and deal them a KO before their plans go through.

All while staying in 3rd, or at best 2nd place for a long while. Does it really make sense? When compared to the risk that people will lose interest in the Wii en masse, Nintendo really did make the better decision.

Quote

I figure if Nintendo thought there games have always been accessible they would be mentioning how Mario Kart continues to be accessible since it was already instead of it becoming more accessible. To say it the way they're saying it now is like putting down the old games as if they weren't okay to non-gamers but now these new ones are. Considering they have a whole VC of "old" games that they would like everyone to buy I think acting like the old games needed to be fixed is not the best thing to say if your goal is just to trick non-gamers.


There are different levels of accessibility. It's not like a game can only be 'accessible' or 'non-accessible'. Mario Kart is more accessible than, say, Halo, (at least in terms of the learning curve) but it is not the be-all, end-all of accessibility. Nintendo understands that the interface is not an end in and of itself, but rather a means for the console's software to understand what the player's desires are. And the more we can cut out the middleman, the closer we are to that goal. Dedicated buttons are easier to understand than a keyboard, and motion controls are easier to understand than dedicated buttons. Maybe one day we'll have direct brain control, but even if that happens the Remote is still much closer to that end of the abstraction spectrum than the standard controller.

And quite frankly, the VC is targeted towards a completely different market than the non-gamer. Gamers are the ones who have experience playing the old VC games, they are the ones buying them, and they are the ones who would be complaining if anything were to be changed. I can't disagree with the assertion that Nintendo wants everyone to buy their VC games, but then again they'd probably be even happier if everyone just gave them cash without them having to produce anything. They know that the VC's primary market is more 'experienced' gamers and they've positioned it that way.
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Offline Nick DiMola

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RE: Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #231 on: July 19, 2007, 03:06:14 PM »
UERD FTW. Couldn't have said it better myself ... though I did try many times.
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Offline Mashiro

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RE: Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #232 on: July 20, 2007, 02:55:28 AM »
Too much to catch up on /killISPforgoingoutfor48hours

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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RE: Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #233 on: July 20, 2007, 05:37:32 AM »
I have not read a single post in here for atleast the last few pages, and I have no idea what topic is being discussed right now. I just wanted to post this here, since I started typing it in another thread that was not ab out what I was typing.

The problem with the NEW minE3 is that now all the shows are too close together.

It was better when minE3 took place in the beginning of May, cause Developers could show what they had since they had months before they would have to show it again. Now you have minE3 in July, Leipzig in Aug., TGS is Sept. & games start releasing in Oct.. There is just no time to get a playable build going, get feed back, fix the issues, and then have a pre-release playbale build shown again near the end of the year. There was also no reason to go all out at the press conferences, cause... well you have another show coming up next month and you can always show more there, no need to keep people talking about you all summer since its almost over.

Someone should start a "No more minE3, bring back E3!!" campaign.

Ok, carry on....

Offline Mashiro

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RE: Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #234 on: July 20, 2007, 05:41:27 AM »
Yeah I agree Blacknmild, I said something along the same lines somewhere across these boards.

Hopefully E3 gets moved back to May and to one location (LA convention center or w/e it used to be).

Offline IceCold

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RE: Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #235 on: July 20, 2007, 04:58:06 PM »
We've discussed this to death, and I really don't want to write another long post about it, but whatever Nintendo did, they wouldn't be able to compete with Sony and Microsoft in the traditional market. I think I realised this during the HD debate.The Wii was literally the only way they could increase their marketshare.. When I read of their "screwups" like not giving demo discs and online and all, that would have affected marketshare by a tiny fraction. It certainly wouldn't have allowed Nintendo to win. Sorry for not justifying this, but I have many times in the past.

Also, I'd buy Wii Taxes in a heartbeat!
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Offline SixthAngel

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RE:Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #236 on: July 20, 2007, 05:45:53 PM »
A lot of people seem to be upset more with what Nintendo is saying then what they are actually doing.  They talk about the new market all the time, they want to point out that everything is easily accessible.  They have been bragging about it in their own games for years but now the new market is there to focus the message on.  The amount of "nongames" is still minuscule.  Wii Fit, Wii Music and Brain Training is all that has been mentioned and Wii Fit was the only new one.  The big regular games are still coming out this year harder and faster then ever.  They have hardly deviated much from their traditional software, they are just focusing on different things when they talk and they will keep doing so for marketing reasons.

People are more upset that Nintendo is addressing the new market in their conference then what they are actually releasing and making.

Offline Kairon

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RE: Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #237 on: July 20, 2007, 06:55:42 PM »
Edit: Bah.
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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
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Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
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Offline AzureNightmare

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RE: Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #238 on: July 22, 2007, 05:58:55 PM »
good god, so much trolling here

Offline Kairon

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RE: Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #239 on: July 22, 2007, 05:59:54 PM »
It's a Nintendo fanboi civil war!
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline AzureNightmare

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RE: Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #240 on: July 22, 2007, 06:03:06 PM »
more like a few trolls are harassing the innocent civilians ::grabs shotgun::

Offline Stogi

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RE: Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #241 on: July 22, 2007, 08:08:12 PM »
*Yawn*

*Clicks back*
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Offline Shift Key

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RE:Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #242 on: July 22, 2007, 09:16:01 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KashogiStogi
*Yawn*

*Clicks back*


Anyone who makes stupid posts like this makes the list, for which a penalty will be administered at an appropriate time.

You have been warned.

Offline Kairon

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RE:Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #243 on: July 22, 2007, 09:17:37 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KashogiStogi
*Yawn*

*Clicks back*


It's a troll! ::grabs wii zapper::
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Stogi

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RE:Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #244 on: July 23, 2007, 12:54:22 AM »

Stay on topic.


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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #245 on: July 23, 2007, 07:17:43 AM »


How about we not antagonize others?

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Offline Stogi

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RE: Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?
« Reply #246 on: July 23, 2007, 08:58:10 AM »
Don't even remember what I said hah.

Something about TV and nothing about E3
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