Topic: Major 3rd parties coming around, at long last?

[IceCold]

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But some other companies which have actually tried, like Square-Enix (for example), have proven that it is possible for a 3rd party to top the DS charts if they really try. It seems like some 3rd parties just don't want to try, so they throw out crap games which unsurprisingly do poorly, and then they whine that it is all Nintendo's fault, even though these crap games consistently perform better on Nintendo hardware than something like the PSP.

That's exactly it. And if Nintendo hadn't innovated with the Wii and forced the situation to change, the vicious cycle would keep going on and on.

[Kairon]

The future is upon us.

[KDR_11k]

What, Sega and Capcom realizing the PSP isn't a good idea? What's next, EA innovating? Oh, wait, that already happened. Well, I guess the Devil better invests in some warm clothes.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Kairon
The XBox was really designed BY gamers I think too. I really believe that for all the danger that resonates in MS' move, their games division is run by people who actually care about or are actually attentive to "games." Should they win though, we'll see how long that lasts.

I can definately affirm that statement, my experience with Microsoft's Game Devision has been great, they are people who love their jobs and love games. The atmosphere is open, friendly and quite casual, almost everyone looks genuinely happy to be at work.  

[Smoke39]

One of the XBox guys taught one of my classes at DigiPen.  It's a shame he didn't actually get to teach us much because the school basically screwed him over, 'cause he seemed like one of the few teachers that seemed like they actually knew what they were talking about.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Adrock  If you really want some payback, throw Yamauchi down the energy reactor shaft of a planet destroying space station.

Yeah, but he'd get you with his lightning powers.

[couchmonkey]

I think there are two things to be said about the third parties' seemingly slow move towards Nintendo:

1. A lot of them are stuck in their ways.  Like many gamers, they want games to be adventures about epic Sci-fi/Fantasy universes.  I think a lot of us prefer Pikmin to Nintendogs, but we all know which of those games is bringing home the bacon.  As such, many people in the industry are being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the future, just like many gamers.

2. It takes a long time to make good games.  You can't just flip a switch and turn your PS3 projects into Wii ones, and a lot of developers expected PS3 to be #1 up until last E3. Heck, the less imaginative ones probalby didn't get it until sometime this year.  If it takes at least a year to make a decent game, then the first E3 converts are just getting their games finished about now...and let's face it, half of those will just take until Christmas because they think everything will sell better then.  Not to mention that really good games usually take more than that...maybe 2-3 years.

Of course, I have to agree with IceCold that even with all its success, DS still doesn't get all of the 3rd party respect it deserves...I can only attribute that to point 1, and some of that usual "fear" of competing with Nintendo's first party games.

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Kairon
The XBox was really designed BY gamers I think too. I really believe that for all the danger that resonates in MS' move, their games division is run by people who actually care about or are actually attentive to "games." Should they win though, we'll see how long that lasts.

I can definately affirm that statement, my experience with Microsoft's Game Devision has been great, they are people who love their jobs and love games. The atmosphere is open, friendly and quite casual, almost everyone looks genuinely happy to be at work.

I think it really sucks that you guys have had good experiences with them. Probably the only reason you have is that MS hasn't turned the employees into Borg. No real reason to do that if you're going to ax the entire division most likely sooner than later. I simply refuse to support a company that looks at gaming the way that MS does. Hell, they're not even looking at gaming at all. They're still too busy grasping at that gold ring of having a techno box on top of every TV in the world. Whether it plays games or not means nothing to them. They just want to control it.

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: couchmonkey
I think there are two things to be said about the third parties' seemingly slow move towards Nintendo:

1. A lot of them are stuck in their ways.  Like many gamers, they want games to be adventures about epic Sci-fi/Fantasy universes.  I think a lot of us prefer Pikmin to Nintendogs, but we all know which of those games is bringing home the bacon.  As such, many people in the industry are being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the future, just like many gamers.

Developers don't make those kinds of decisions. Publishers do. If publishers think they're going to make more money on the Wii with mini-game compilations and puppy simulators then that's what the developers are going to make. But why haven't the publishers jumped on Wii yet? Surely they've been able to see that the system practically prints money. And they'd have a great chance at getting in on the ground floor of a new type of game play. Any one of them could end up creating the next multi-sequel franchise that goes on for generations.

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2. It takes a long time to make good games.  You can't just flip a switch and turn your PS3 projects into Wii ones, and a lot of developers expected PS3 to be #1 up until last E3. Heck, the less imaginative ones probalby didn't get it until sometime this year.  If it takes at least a year to make a decent game, then the first E3 converts are just getting their games finished about now...and let's face it, half of those will just take until Christmas because they think everything will sell better then.  Not to mention that really good games usually take more than that...maybe 2-3 years.

True. It does take time to make good games. It does not, however, take all that much time or effort to make ANNOUNCEMENTS for good games that aren't going to see the light of day for 2 or 3 years. They do that all the time for Sony and MS games. Even to this day you still see it. Once the Wii took off you'd think they would have started making future promises but I haven't seen or heard much of anything. The only company on Wii that has predicted future games is Nintendo. Everyone else seems terrified to announce a game if it isn't coming out in the next 6 months or so.

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Of course, I have to agree with IceCold that even with all its success, DS still doesn't get all of the 3rd party respect it deserves...I can only attribute that to point 1, and some of that usual "fear" of competing with Nintendo's first party games.

The situation really doesn't make any sense at all. It could be fear or it could be resistance but most likely it's just money hats. Considering how poorly any game does on the PSP even when compared to how many units have been sold, I simply cannot understand why anyone would still see it as a viable focus. Especially nard head with Castlevania. They shouldn't allow idiots like that out of their cages. They tend to say really stupid stuff.


EDIT: Stupid quote tags...

[Adrock]

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denjet78 wrote:
It does not, however, take all that much time or effort to make ANNOUNCEMENTS for good games that aren't going to see the light of day for 2 or 3 years. They do that all the time for Sony and MS games.

No one was banking on Wii to succeed. It's been out for what, 7 months? Give it some time. I'm certain, especially given this recent announcement, that we'll hear something by the end of the year, if not in 2 weeks at E3.

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Considering how poorly any game does on the PSP even when compared to how many units have been sold, I simply cannot understand why anyone would still see it as a viable focus. Especially nard head with Castlevania. They shouldn't allow idiots like that out of their cages. They tend to say really stupid stuff.

I believe BlackNMild2k1 said in another thread that PSP only looks bad next to DS, which, I've read, is the fastest selling hardware ever. No one would make anything on anything if they didn't expect to turn a profit. I swear I've said this before.

And I wouldn't put too much stock into everything anyone says. Unless explicitly told not to say something, they tend to just ramble. It's gamers like you and me who read too far into what they say. For all the sh*t IGA has apparently talked about Nintendo, he sure made his fair share of titles for GBA/DS.

[couchmonkey]

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Originally posted by: denjet78

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Originally posted by: couchmonkey
I think there are two things to be said about the third parties' seemingly slow move towards Nintendo:

1. A lot of them are stuck in their ways.  Like many gamers, they want games to be adventures about epic Sci-fi/Fantasy universes.  I think a lot of us prefer Pikmin to Nintendogs, but we all know which of those games is bringing home the bacon.  As such, many people in the industry are being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the future, just like many gamers.

Developers don't make those kinds of decisions. Publishers do. If publishers think they're going to make more money on the Wii with mini-game compilations and puppy simulators then that's what the developers are going to make. But why haven't the publishers jumped on Wii yet? Surely they've been able to see that the system practically prints money. And they'd have a great chance at getting in on the ground floor of a new type of game play. Any one of them could end up creating the next multi-sequel franchise that goes on for generations.

I didn't say developers, I said "third parties".  The whole industry is full of people in the "blockbuster epic = big money" mindset.  Heck, the Sega guy that was complaining about Wii a few weeks back was the VP of marketing, not a developer at all.  It can be the developers or the suits who are scared of the future.

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2. It takes a long time to make good games.  You can't just flip a switch and turn your PS3 projects into Wii ones, and a lot of developers expected PS3 to be #1 up until last E3. Heck, the less imaginative ones probalby didn't get it until sometime this year.  If it takes at least a year to make a decent game, then the first E3 converts are just getting their games finished about now...and let's face it, half of those will just take until Christmas because they think everything will sell better then.  Not to mention that really good games usually take more than that...maybe 2-3 years.

True. It does take time to make good games. It does not, however, take all that much time or effort to make ANNOUNCEMENTS for good games that aren't going to see the light of day for 2 or 3 years. They do that all the time for Sony and MS games. Even to this day you still see it. Once the Wii took off you'd think they would have started making future promises but I haven't seen or heard much of anything. The only company on Wii that has predicted future games is Nintendo. Everyone else seems terrified to announce a game if it isn't coming out in the next 6 months or so.

You've got a point, it's puzzling why they aren't announcing more games...my guess is a lot of them simply aren't far enough along.  RE5 was announced more than a year ago (maybe more than two years ago), and it looks like Wii will have Umbrella Chronicles long before that game ever comes out - maybe before we even see more screens/video of it.  Indeed, this may be why third parties are keeping their pieholes shut - to avoid a bunch of vapourware embarrasments if the Wii bubble "bursts".

Edit: less capslock.

[Adrock]

I really just think they have nothing to show yet. Wii came out of no where and surprised everyone, probably including Nintendo. Patience. The games are coming.

[Kairon]

How much patience would be prudent though?

Some of us expect to see a big blowout at E3. But should we wait longer? Is E3 going to be a vastly different affair from past years, and will devs still hold cards close to their chest? Should we wait until TGS in Sep/Oct? Or is that too long?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

The new E3 is one big smelly locker room of publishers.

[BigJim]

Were developers prepared more in advance, we'd have better software. But such as it is, we're getting a lot of fast ports.  I wouldn't call it a slow transition. I'd call it a sudden one.

Better stuff will come. It's just too bad that so much info is now either fractured into bits or under embargo entirely now that E3 as we knew it was blown up, and we have to wait even longer for the new E3.

Don't forget that Nintendo is pretty controlling about even 3rd party game announcements. So the flexibility of pre-announcing games on other consoles typically doesn't apply here.