Topic: SUPER SMASH BROS BRAWL - The New Megathread

[Spak-Spang]

Wow what a great tease.  

They gave us the information we want to know, but did not give everything away.
I kinda fill blue-balled, but at least it was by the best.


As for how it will all control let the speculation begin...but I will simply say...all you need is what 4 buttons for Smash Bros to work...so all the control methods work with that.

As for me, I will be playing with the Classic Controller.  The analog sticks are not that poorly placed that you can't play the game, and besides I don't have Gamecube Controllers anymore...I guess I could go buy some, but I would rather just use the classic.

The classic controller is going to open a great debate though.  Nintendo created a great controller with the Gamecube, but many critized it for being poorly shaped and preventing different button combinations easily.  Will Brawl be able to answer which button layout is better the traditional round buttons, or the nice easily recongized (by feel) Cube buttons.


Just realized one final thing...those that love to jump with buttons, are probably going to have to use the classic or Gamecube controllers....though it could be possible to impliment that with the Nunchuck and Remote combo...which may actually make a great control scheme.

[Ceric]

Ok heres a weird thought.

With just the Wiimote why not tilting left or right to move left or right like in Sonic and the Secret Rings?  Then you free up the D-pad and the A button.  Plus I don't know why they don't use the B button in the horizontal config becuse I can tap or hold it really easy myself.  Also to do Smash moves you could just jar it up or down while pressing the the respective button.  Up D-pad could be jump and down D-Pad could be duck.  Maybe even designate A as jump.  There are possibilities though.

[Tanookisuit]

I'm so glad I still have four Wavebirds!  (2 thanks to a PGC contest!)

[Athrun Zala]

Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
But I seriously don't understand how only the remote can be used.

Roll:


Dodge:


Jump:


Shield or Grab if done together with attack button:


Smash could even be done with variations of these (ie: Sideways Smash done with the first one and the attack button), but in any case, I'm pretty sure they could come up with way better ideas than these.... so don't worry too much

[wandering]

Just to let you all know, I'm going on a trip and I won't be able to update the first post for a few weeks.

[mantidor]

There goes my hiatus on this I hope I can have more willpower when MP3 news start to appear.

At first I was preparing a healthy-sized rant on how much I hate the remote being underused and how lame this gc controller/gesture thing is, basically TP all over again, then I realize that smash is probably one of the few games that can pull it off. The remote-only is the one that intrigues me the most, since smash games are heavily oriented towards stick controls (as opposed to every other fighter game and their stubbornness sticking with the old d-pad), I guess the remote will emulate a big stick, which seems kind of interesting.

The classic controller can die in a fire for all I care, its the deformed lovechild of a dualshock(ugh) and the SNES (glorious) controller, and for a game that puts such big emphasis on the control stick it will suck for sure with its horrible stick placement.

Besides Sakurai already choose GC, "feel that powerful rumble!", I can't help to agree

[Smash_Brother]

GC users will eat Wiimote users alive if motion control is implemented.

SSB is based around a level of twitch gameplay that makes the small delay in motion control a HUGE hurdle when fighting a skilled opponent.

[Adrock]

Ehh, I think the idea is to allow the game to be played without forcing users to buy anything extra.... even if the alternatives are better. If motion controls don't pan out, it's good that Nintendo is providing options. Not everyone is willing to buy extra peripherals which is why GC/GBA connectivity failed.

But yeah, I kind of feel that the Wavebird or even the Classic Controller is the way to go. The whole gameplay system was built around traditional controls so unless they changed the system, it's hard to imagine motion controls working better. Not that it can't, I just find it hard to imagine.

I wish Nintendo would release a wireless traditional controller for Wii. I know I've said that before so I won't get into the intricacies of it, but I'd still like to see it happen. I've worn out several controllers from basically Melee alone. And I haven't seen many GCN controllers at stores though I suppose Nintendo could ramp up production, but if a Wavebird is $35, I'd rather spend that money on a traditional controller built specifically for Wii. I digress...

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I think I'm on my 8th official controller because of Melee Smash Attacks.

[Spak-Spang]

Wiimote only controls.

1-Attack
2-Special
B-Block
A-Grab and Throw

D-Pad movement.

Rolls=Block and Move remote left or right
Dodge=Block and Move Controller up or down

Smash Attacks:  Hold Attack Button to charge and then Swing controller in any 4 directions.


There you go perfect controls with just the Wiimote.

Moving on to Wiimote + analog later.

[Smash_Brother]

The A button won't work as a grab/throw button because you need to be inputting a direction for throwing objects, and it's also cumbersome to use mid-game (learned that from TJ&E).

Remember that holding block while pressing A was/is grab/throw, and they COULD manage to use that.

However, I can see double-tapping a direction counting as a tap whereas only tapping it once counts as a lean. Anything else won't work as motion control users will just get their sh*t wrecked by GC players.

[that Baby guy]

I think some answers come from Kirby Super Star and Smash Bros. controls in general:  Double Tap would be a Smash, holding it would be run.  The B button will be the shield, like the L button was block then.  B + 2 will be grab (and throw).  1 will be special attack, 2 will be normal attack.  Air dodge is B alone or with direction in the air, whereas B + 2 will throw in the air.  The only thing missing that I can think of is using grappling items in the air wouldn't work with this method.  Jumping could be done by double tapping up or by an upward Wii-remote thrust.  I think that covers it.  To charge a smash, when you do the second tap, you just hold the attack button down, or the direction and attack button down.  Either way works.

Can anyone think of something I missed?

[Smash_Brother]

That pretty much covers it...except for the taunt.

But yeah, that could work without any motion control, and since the game will use GC and classic controllers, we know it WILL be possible to play without motion control so those playing with it will be creamed by those on regular controllers.

[that Baby guy]

Really, I just want to see that Kirby game come out.  You know, the GC one that actually resembled Kirby's Super Star in gameplay.  Taunt could be some type of waggle.  Maybe that arm pump move, similar to what you do when you want a semi to honk.  So, in short, maybe they'll offer motion control and mild motion control options with the Wii-Remote alone, which would work well for casual and hardcore players, I think.

The control I described above probably isn't a bit slower than with a GC controller.  In fact, it may be faster, but you lose some control over direction by using a D-pad rather than a joystick to move, it's a  trade off, though.

[Spak-Spang]

Taunt - Key or + Key.

Sure it isn't perfect, but Taunt isn't used often at all.

All the motion controls should be for the Smashes alone so not to confuse people.

[IceCold]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
Huge balance issue is solved.

Well, I agree with you that the people who care about balance will probably use the best option online or otherwise.

BUT, what if you only have two remotes and two Cube controllers, and you want to play a 4-player game. Two of the people will be at a disadvantage from the getgo if one of the options is a better alternative.

[Kairon]

Sounds a lot like when we have 3 first party controllers and one real crappy third-party controller with chunky analog stick. Someone's ALWAYS gonne be at a disadvantage. You just play around it.

[Athrun Zala]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
GC users will eat Wiimote users alive if motion control is implemented.

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Anything else won't work as motion control users will just get their sh*t wrecked by GC players.

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
But yeah, that could work without any motion control, and since the game will use GC and classic controllers, we know it WILL be possible to play without motion control so those playing with it will be creamed by those on regular controllers.

so tell me Mr I-predict-the-FUTUAH, when will the world implode?


seriously, you are aware that the controls haven't been revealed yet, right?

[Ceric]

S2B2 Staff:  Because the Wiimote only people will be at a disadvantage we implemented a 50% automatic dodge rate and 25% automatic recovery for them.  We think this will make a good balance.

I doubt they do anything like that.  I also know from experience that no matter how weird the control scheme their will be people who master it and stand on par with the best of the best.

[Smoke39]

Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold

Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
Huge balance issue is solved.

Well, I agree with you that the people who care about balance will probably use the best option online or otherwise.

BUT, what if you only have two remotes and two Cube controllers, and you want to play a 4-player game. Two of the people will be at a disadvantage from the getgo if one of the options is a better alternative.

You're really making too big of a deal out of this.  If you're really competitive, you can buy a couple more controllers so everyone's using the same control scheme.  Was this a problem with the 'Cube?  Oh noez, I have to buy two more controllers because I only have two!  What, you bought a Wii and only two controllers expecting two to be enough to play with four players?

And if you're just four guys playing together for fun, it doesn't matter if one control scheme is technically slightly faster.  If it's really that big of a deal to you, doesn't SSB have a handicap setting?

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Athrun Zala
so tell me Mr I-predict-the-FUTUAH, when will the world implode?


seriously, you are aware that the controls haven't been revealed yet, right?

Do you own a Wii?

Do you notice that there is an extra .25-.5 second delay in the reaction time of the Wiimote when using motion sensing features?

Do you understand that two players who are evenly skilled (even if they both suck) using a GC controller and a Wiimote (if motion sensing is used) will see an advantage in favor of the GC user because of the far, far lower reaction times?

This isn't about the "future" at all: motion-sensing will cripple the player using it if playing against a non-motion user, period.

I think it can be pulled off with just a Wiimote by using double taps to replace stick taps and single taps for stick leans: double-tapping is a time-honored means of indicating a different command in a certain direction.

However, yes, if motion sensing is used, I think it'll be s hinderance to players using it against players who aren't using it.

[Smoke39]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Do you notice that there is an extra .25-.5 second delay in the reaction time of the Wiimote when using motion sensing features?

That's an exageration.  Half a second is a long time.  It's closer to a tenth or a fifth max.

[IceCold]

Quote
That's an exageration. Half a second is a long time. It's closer to a tenth or a fifth max.

And that's only with games like WiiSports tennis. Tilting is usually almost instantaneous.  

[Smash_Brother]

First of all, we're not talking about tilting (I was referring to people suggesting that shaking the controller would initiate a smash attack), and I don't think tilting would work well either because you'd need to hold the controller level at all times to get the proper reaction.

Second, the GC player is still going to have a definite advantage. It takes longer for a person to shake a Wiimote in a direction than it takes for them to tap an analogue stick in a direction and hit a button at the same time (or hit the C-stick in a direction, which some expert players do because it's faster as it doesn't initiate a charged smash).

I have no reason to care in the long run as I'll be playing with all wavebirds (I demand a jump button), but motion controls WILL reduce a player's reaction time because it introduces a lag time where before there was none.

[Smoke39]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I don't think tilting would work well either because you'd need to hold the controller level at all times to get the proper reaction.

It sure is hard to drive straight in Excite Truck.