Topic: The DualSuck

[Artimus]

How has this lasted three generations? It's one of the worst controllers ever. Playing Shadow of the Colossus today I was ready to throw it out. The analogue sticks are painfully out of place and their height makes them annoying. Their sensitivity is also horrendous and they're terrible to use. The d-pad is the worst currently is use. The shoulder buttons are awkward and the entire thing's shape is completely unergonomic.

How can anyone stand this?

[IceCold]

I've ranted more than enough about the damn thing..

[Infernal Monkey]

It's lasted three generations because your opinion is in the extreme minority.

/thread  

[Artimus]

Quote
Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
It's lasted three generations because your opinion is in the extreme minority.

/thread

So why are people so delusional?

[Shorty McNostril]

I personally hate the thing as well.  Why don't Sony swallow their pride just once and swap the D-pad with the left control stick, then it would be fine.

[Kairon]

I HATE this controller... I wonder how in the world people can stand having the analog sticks where they are.

... contrastingly, I LURVED the XBox big controller, aside from the 4 action buttons being indistinquishable from each other and being tough to press.

... then I hated the XBox S controller.... but the X360 controller is decent...

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Artimus]

That's another thing that sucks on the DualShock: the buttons. The sensation of pressing is negligible because of the stupid, useless, analog feature.

[Infernal Monkey]

Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus

So why are people so delusional?

Don't know, don't really care! I don't mind it, but I have like eighty PS2 games. Personally I hated the Nintendo 64's controller (they purposely built them to break easily) and the Intellivision's, because.. well...



Oh oh, and the Master System's for its lack of a friggin' pause button. TSK TSK.

[Artimus]

Quote
Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey

Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus

So why are people so delusional?

Don't know, don't really care! I don't mind it, but I have like eighty PS2 games. Personally I hated the Nintendo 64's controller (they purposely built them to break easily) and the Intellivision's, because.. well...



Oh oh, and the Master System's for its lack of a friggin' pause button. TSK TSK.

I concur about the quality of the N64 construction. Though it was just the analog stick that sucked and they fixed that for the cube. Key word being fix. The DualShock wouldn't be nearly as unexplainable if it weren't thirteen years old.

[oohhboy]

I don't like the PS or the X360 controller. The X360 has the protruding dashboard button I keep hitting and I can't tell which face button is which. The start and select buttons are wasted. The worse thing abut controls is that neither console have a consistane policy as to which bleeding button in Yes/No. Even within the same game sometimes. The Gamecube and N64 was virtually always greeen/red, A/B.

[MaryJane]

It's all about getting used to things.

Humans have this strange ability to adapt.

I prefer the GC and Wii controllers over the Xbox and PS ones, but spend enough time with them, and you learn their little nuances and learn to play. The most important thing is the entertainment factor the game provides, getting used to a controller is something anyone can do if they have an open mind.

Isn't that what we tell people about the Wii-mote? Don't hate it because it's different you'll get used to it? There's a much sharper learning curve for the Wii-mote in some games, especially the different control schemes being used in FPS's, and games that require you to use the remote in different ways and utilize it's different functions.

My main complaint about the DualShock would be that the analog stick should be tighter, and in the prominent position. The Xbox controller just took awhile to get used to, but it was I picked up it quicker than the DualShock.

[Arbok]

I never liked the PS1/2/3 controller... but I must admit that it was better than the DC one, which just causes all kinds of pain if I play too long on it.

[Ian Sane]

The Dualshock has lasted this long purely because most gamers don't know better.  There's a whole generation of gamers for which the Playstation was their first videogame system and they have never owned a non-Sony console thus not giving them any perspective.  They're ignorant of better controllers so they've adapted to the Dualshock with no problems.  And if their userbase is used to it why should Sony change?

Though a sorta good reason for sticking with the design is backwards compatibility.  But I don't see why things can't be made a little more ergonomic.

It's a lot like the NES controller.  That controller is incredibly uncomfortable.  It's a rectangle for crying out loud.  But at the time we don't know of anything better.  I never heard anyone complain about the NES controller until the SNES came out and we saw how a controller could actually be molded to fit your hands.  Then the NES controller became uncomfortable if we were playing on the older system.

The thing I hate the most about the Dualshock is the button names.  I have no idea off the top of my head where any of the buttons are because I don't think in shapes.  Shapes are arbitrary.  Letters or even numbers make sense.  I can assume that B will be next to A.  Plus it's easier to tell someone playing to press A instead of "press triangle".  A three syllable name for a button.  Screw that.  But this is something that will likely never be addressed because the Playstation userbase is so used to those names.

[couchmonkey]

The DualShock also does all things ok, as opposed to, say, GameCube which does some things really well and other things (like traditional fighting games) terribly.

Edit: I like the 360 controller, but the protruding home button is annoying.  I wish more controllers would try to differentiate the face buttons, I like to feel which button I'm pressing.  Wii kind of eliminates the problem by simply not having that many.

[capamerica]

I absolutely hate the Playstation controller. Its outdated and isn't comfortable.

GameCube was my fav and I also liked the Xbox S and the Xbox360 controllers. For me the Xbox S and the Xbox360 controllers are very much like the GameCube, the button layout on all 3 are very similar. Its just the form factor that puts the GameCube ahead of the Xbox.

[Mikintosh]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
The Dualshock has lasted this long purely because most gamers don't know better.  There's a whole generation of gamers for which the Playstation was their first videogame system and they have never owned a non-Sony console thus not giving them any perspective.  They're ignorant of better controllers so they've adapted to the Dualshock with no problems.  And if their userbase is used to it why should Sony change?

Though a sorta good reason for sticking with the design is backwards compatibility.  But I don't see why things can't be made a little more ergonomic.

It's a lot like the NES controller.  That controller is incredibly uncomfortable.  It's a rectangle for crying out loud.  But at the time we don't know of anything better.  I never heard anyone complain about the NES controller until the SNES came out and we saw how a controller could actually be molded to fit your hands.  Then the NES controller became uncomfortable if we were playing on the older system.

From my limited experience with it, I thought the NES controller was kinda fun in a simplistic way. 'Course I don't have very big hands, so it's probably an easier fit.

I think what doesn't make sense about the Dualshock is that 3D games became in vogue not one year after the PS1 came out, and yet they continue to have the control pad in the dominant position, with the control sticks uncomfortable out of reach...even though you're supposed to use them for most PS2 games. Even the PSP perpetuates this, although I think the control stick on that one is in a lot better position.

[ShyGuy]

This thread is irrelevant now due to the power of waggle. All PS2 titles will be ported to the Wii in time...

[NWR_pap64]

I never realized how bad the PS controller was until I tried playing Gitaroo Man. It was then that I realized that the controller was annoying.

[Ceric]

Where to begin.

Point 1:
The thing that gets me the most about the DualShock is they use of symbols instead of letters.  Wrong side of the brain for me.

Point 2:  If you go back in time to the NES days, do yourself a favor and get the Superior NES Max controller.  Once you use that you won't want to go back.  Actually I wouldn't mind that weird style of d-Pad again.

Point 3:  The Dreamcast controller was a lot better then I thought it was.

Point 4: Unfortunately that design has been so ingrained in the gaming psyche that the classic control draws from it. (Hence why I made this series.  I really should complete it I have an ending and at least 2 more.)  

[Artimus]

Quote
Originally posted by: MaryJane
It's all about getting used to things.

Humans have this strange ability to adapt.

I prefer the GC and Wii controllers over the Xbox and PS ones, but spend enough time with them, and you learn their little nuances and learn to play. The most important thing is the entertainment factor the game provides, getting used to a controller is something anyone can do if they have an open mind.

Isn't that what we tell people about the Wii-mote? Don't hate it because it's different you'll get used to it? There's a much sharper learning curve for the Wii-mote in some games, especially the different control schemes being used in FPS's, and games that require you to use the remote in different ways and utilize it's different functions.

My main complaint about the DualShock would be that the analog stick should be tighter, and in the prominent position. The Xbox controller just took awhile to get used to, but it was I picked up it quicker than the DualShock.

But you seem to be insinuating that all controllers are equal. How quick you adapt, however, has nothing to do with it. A new player has no trouble using the Wiimote. Being used to one controller (be it SNES, GCN, PS or XBOX) has nothing to do with the quality of the controller themselves. The DualShock is just badly designed. It was ok back in the PSX days, but since then it has been outdone by almost every new controller.

I've spent enough time with the DualShock to be used to it. I know where the face buttons are (the symbols are stupid, though). My issues, and apparently I am not alone, are to do with the actual design. It's uncomfortable and it's not intuitive or slick to use. Yes you can master it, but you have to overcome shortcomings to do so. You have to learn to deal with problems. That's different than just learning to use the controller.

And something like fighting games, which someone mentioned, is different. The GameCube controller was designed in a way that they knew it wouldn't be ideal for fighting games. That was a choice. It may be a mistake, but it's not an issue with ergonomics it's a design choice. I'd say that's a flaw, but when using it on other games it works exactly how it should. The DualShock doesn't work very well, it has a lot of issues.

But again, the main issue isn't so much the initial design but the fact that the problems have never been fixed. I think the attacks on the boomerang concept were the biggest mistake Sony fans made pre-PS3 release.

[Bill Aurion]

Quote
Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
It's lasted three generations because your opinion is in the extreme minority.

/thread

Nope, thread ends after I say how much the DualShock sucks...Which I just did...

[GoldenPhoenix]

The dual shock is an OK controller, and Sony has been lazy all 3 generations, that is about the only explanation to why it is still around. We have to realize this is a company that refuses to innovate, and when they do, they are "borrowing" other ideas, so it is no surprise why the Dual Shock is around.  Personally I think the best designed controller is the 360's, it is comfortable, and has intuitive button placement.

[Ceric]

Quote
But again, the main issue isn't so much the initial design but the fact that the problems have never been fixed. I think the attacks on the boomerang concept were the biggest mistake Sony fans made pre-PS3 release.

Agree.  It was just to easy though.  I had a boomerang designed N64 controller.  It was a little big but I liked the general design.  I probably would have like the Batarang welll enough.

[Ian Sane]

"I think what doesn't make sense about the Dualshock is that 3D games became in vogue not one year after the PS1 came out, and yet they continue to have the control pad in the dominant position, with the control sticks uncomfortable out of reach...even though you're supposed to use them for most PS2 games."

I used to agree with this but after the Cube controller I'm a little unsure.  I think a d-pad is harder to use if it's off to the side than an analog stick is.  The Gamecube's C-stick for example is not hard to use at all.  I immediately was able to use it.  But having off center d-pads has always been a challenge.  I'm beginning to think that maybe the Sony method isn't so bad after all since an off center analog stick is relatively easy to use while a d-pad isn't.  If you were designing a standard controller to control all games (except Wii games I suppose) a d-pad in the "main" position might make more sense.  The problem with Dualshock's analog stick position isn't so much that it's to the side but just that it isn't ergonomic.  A Gamecube controller with the analog sticks in this "Dualshock" style position probably wouldn't be uncomfortable.

But Sony's reasoning for the placement is because they didn't feel like deviating from the original design.  Thus any additions to the Playstation controller are placed whereever they fit.  So if the d-pad is actually in the best position Sony deserves no credit because they clearly didn't plan for that and just stumbled upon it through laziness.  And the Playstation d-pad is complete horsesh!t.  It is easily the worst digital movement input for a controller in the post-crash era.

[Artimus]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"I think what doesn't make sense about the Dualshock is that 3D games became in vogue not one year after the PS1 came out, and yet they continue to have the control pad in the dominant position, with the control sticks uncomfortable out of reach...even though you're supposed to use them for most PS2 games."

I used to agree with this but after the Cube controller I'm a little unsure.  I think a d-pad is harder to use if it's off to the side than an analog stick is.  The Gamecube's C-stick for example is not hard to use at all.  I immediately was able to use it.  But having off center d-pads has always been a challenge.  I'm beginning to think that maybe the Sony method isn't so bad after all since an off center analog stick is relatively easy to use while a d-pad isn't.  If you were designing a standard controller to control all games (except Wii games I suppose) a d-pad in the "main" position might make more sense.  The problem with Dualshock's analog stick position isn't so much that it's to the side but just that it isn't ergonomic.  A Gamecube controller with the analog sticks in this "Dualshock" style position probably wouldn't be uncomfortable.

But Sony's reasoning for the placement is because they didn't feel like deviating from the original design.  Thus any additions to the Playstation controller are placed whereever they fit.  So if the d-pad is actually in the best position Sony deserves no credit because they clearly didn't plan for that and just stumbled upon it through laziness.  And the Playstation d-pad is complete horsesh!t.  It is easily the worst digital movement input for a controller in the post-crash era.

The C-stick isn't a fair analogy. You couldn't use it as a regular analog stick. And the GameCube's problem is the D-pad's size and sensitivity, not the placement.