Topic: REVIEWS: Sonic and the Secret Rings

[Smoke39]

I support NWR's ranking system.  I'll give games with "low" (sub-seven) scores a shot if the game sounds like it's my style based on the actual review text.  Perhaps reviews could have a quick explanation of the scale at the top of every review or something.  Or a one-word explanation of the game's score underneath it.  I've seen lots of reviews that have "Passable" or "Good" or whatever under the final score, indicating where on their scale the number lies.

[Karl Castaneda #2]

...and this is why we should extend our Virtual Console scale to our regular reviews.

[Bloodworth]

I still want to play it and see for myself.  Maybe I can spare a couple bucks on a rental.

[ShyGuy]

So wait, Super Mario Bros is broken? BROKEN??

Bloodworth, give it a try. I think you may like it more than some people give it credit.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
So wait, Super Mario Bros is broken? BROKEN??

Bloodworth, give it a try. I think you may like it more than some people give it credit.

I said the controls are broken, not the game, but for the time they were some of the best around. Though when playing it again it is quite "floaty" which is a problem many 2D games had/have, luckily though the level design was built around it.

[ShyGuy]

Controls are a vital part of the game. Ergo, you are wrong.

WAIT. "Luckily" the level design was built around the broken controls? Miyamoto is a "lucky" man. Like Beethoven lucky. Michelangelo lucky.

[wandering]

Quote
Originally posted by: ViewtifulGamer
...and this is why we should extend our Virtual Console scale to our regular reviews.

Yes, that is exactly what you should do. I'm serious. If you're going to break the mold (and that's what you're doing. Metacritic considers a review that gives a game a score lower than 75 'mixed' rather than 'favorable'), you should go all the way. Throw out the numbers altogether.

...actually, instead of "Recommended for Everyone/Fans/No one", I'd go with "buy"/"rent"/"avoid like the plague". I think that's ideal for games. "Great"/"Good"/"Okay"/"Poor"/"Worst thing since the black plague" also works well.  

[Smash_Brother]

Regarding the control of the game, I think you're dealing with a completely new beast here and, as such, it's going to take a while to adjust to the new setup.

The controls are NOT broken: they're new, different and something we as gamers aren't yet used to dealing with.

First of all, we're not used to making ultra-minute adjustments by tilting our hands ever so slightly.

Second, it took me years to develop my analogue stick thumb to the point where I could glide a crosshair back and forth across a screen. I think it's going to take time before we fully explore the finesse it will require in order to cause a character on screen to glide back and forth in small increments.

Consider all of the difficulty in moving the Wiimote: if you're not careful, you can move Sonic by accident, and I know because I've done this. This is something which will take some getting used to, but like I said, I managed to do it so I know the controls aren't "broken".  

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Regarding the control of the game, I think you're dealing with a completely new beast here and, as such, it's going to take a while to adjust to the new setup.

The controls are NOT broken: they're new, different and something we as gamers aren't yet used to dealing with.

First of all, we're not used to making ultra-minute adjustments by tilting our hands ever so slightly.

Second, it took me years to develop my analogue stick thumb to the point where I could glide a crosshair back and forth across a screen. I think it's going to take time before we fully explore the finesse it will require in order to cause a character on screen to glide back and forth in small increments.

Consider all of the difficulty in moving the Wiimote: if you're not careful, you can move Sonic by accident, and I know because I've done this. This is something which will take some getting used to, but like I said, I managed to do it so I know the controls aren't "broken".

You know, Excite Truck and Kirby Tilt N Tuble beg to differ about this being new. Sonic feels clunky, even Excite Truck feels polished control wise compared to it. I really hope Sonic is signs of things we must get used to either because they are perhaps some of the least innovative, tacked on, useless, controls we have seen on the Wii. The Wiimote can do much more than tilt n tumble controls which are a gimmick, yes I said it, a gimmick when it comes to moving your character.

[Koekoenutt]

I actually don't mind the tilt and tumble controls. I love Excite Truck and still play it here and there. Would never trade it in. I just think in Sonic, they didn't really flow with the game itself like they should have, and other than moving left and right, I think could have been a lot better. Not saying they are the worst possible, but some of the things, like going backwards and even some jump techniques, could have been worked out way better. It hindered the gameplay a little bit and think the controls should take a penality to the game. I got used to them, sure.. Just think they could have put way more thought into and applied them better to the game itself. It's a mix of some of the levels with the non-precise controls that just annoyed me about the game. They are "good enough", but could have been way better and way more user friendly.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

I actually like Excite Truck as well, but really tilt controls are really a lazy way out of designing games around the unique features of the Wiimote. It is almost like the early days of the DS that people used the touch screen just so they utilize some of the new features, I get the same feeling with some Wii games, that they are slapping on tilt controls just to say "Hey we utilized the Wiimote. Look you can make sonic turn like a truck by tilting the controller! Yeah, we know people will eat this up. In fact since our other Sonic games have been so crappy even an overly simplistic, unpolished product like Secret Rings will get major praise because even in its clunky, disconnected state it is still better than other Sonic games! " Exact quote from Sega too.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I actually like Excite Truck as well, but really tilt controls are really a lazy way out of designing games around the unique features of the Wiimote. It is almost like the early days of the DS that people used the touch screen just so they utilize some of the new features, I get the same feeling with some Wii games, that they are slapping on tilt controls just to say "Hey we utilized the Wiimote. Look you can make sonic turn like a truck by tilting the controller! Yeah, we know people will eat this up. In fact since our other Sonic games have been so crappy even an overly simplistic, unpolished product like Secret Rings will get major praise because even in its clunky, disconnected state it is still better than other Sonic games! " Exact quote from Sega too.

It's ok.

I get bitter when I'm bad at things, too.

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I actually like Excite Truck as well, but really tilt controls are really a lazy way out of designing games around the unique features of the Wiimote. It is almost like the early days of the DS that people used the touch screen just so they utilize some of the new features, I get the same feeling with some Wii games, that they are slapping on tilt controls just to say "Hey we utilized the Wiimote. Look you can make sonic turn like a truck by tilting the controller! Yeah, we know people will eat this up. In fact since our other Sonic games have been so crappy even an overly simplistic, unpolished product like Secret Rings will get major praise because even in its clunky, disconnected state it is still better than other Sonic games! " Exact quote from Sega too.

It's ok.

I get bitter when I'm bad at things, too.

BURN!

I agree that Golden's a bit too bitter about this. Its OK if you didn't like the game but that doesn't mean that you should condemn games and developers in general.

[Koekoenutt]

Edit: Made some long rant that really doesn't do much for the thread, and can't figure out how to delete it, any help!?

[Smash_Brother]

Don't think too hard about it: I'm just poking fun at Golden and she knows that.

At this point, she clearly won't be persuaded to think any differently about the game and I've already played the game and mastered the controls so I'm not exactly inclined to budge on my opinion, either.

[NWR_pap64]

Also, we have been teasing each other for a while. Golden makes fun of me and I make fun of her love for Elebits.

We already talked to each other about it and made sure that what we are saying to each other are jokes.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I'm sorry that both Smash and Pap are so bitter about me being right, they can't admit it!

[Smash_Brother]

Unless you can somehow reverse the flow of time and undo the fact that I went through the game without much trouble with the controls, then, uh, yeah. Not happening.

[Mario]

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering

Quote
Originally posted by: ViewtifulGamer
...and this is why we should extend our Virtual Console scale to our regular reviews.

Yes, that is exactly what you should do. I'm serious. If you're going to break the mold (and that's what you're doing. Metacritic considers a review that gives a game a score lower than 75 'mixed' rather than 'favorable'), you should go all the way. Throw out the numbers altogether.

...actually, instead of "Recommended for Everyone/Fans/No one", I'd go with "buy"/"rent"/"avoid like the plague". I think that's ideal for games. "Great"/"Good"/"Okay"/"Poor"/"Worst thing since the black plague" also works well.

I'd rather there was no kind of rating at all, forcing people to make up their own minds about whether or not the things mentioned in the review are good or bad. Of course that'd just probably make most people go to other sites for scores. Good for humanity, bad for NWR.

[KDR_11k]

Problem is that some (many?) reviews fail to make it clear what rating the game would receive. It's also hard to judge how much of an issue mentioned problems are, something might sound more severe than it is. Also it's hard to describe the fun factor of a game accurately.

[Smash_Brother]

I still like my "five scores" review concept: you give a different score for hardcore, normal, fan, party and non-gamer which should give the reader/listener a better idea of what to expect in terms of the game's appeal.

Best of all, the review can be in a paragraph or two:

Sonic: SR
Hardcore - 9
Plenty of skills to unlock, pages of Sonic art and medals to earn on every level for excellent performances. A hardcore gamer will have ample content to push for, including a difficult control scheme which is a challenge to truly master, but those who do will see an immense difference in their ability to scream through levels.

Normal - 7
The controls have a learning curve which goes beyond what you expect: even when you think you've played enough to learn the controls, you haven't.

Fan - 8
Sonic's back and he's fast as all hell, but the storyline doesn't encompass any of his normal adventures (some might consider that a good thing). In fact, it's an offshoot storyline. You can rest assured he won't be kissing anyone this time around, but if you like his attitude and "never-say-die" spirit, you'll enjoy seeing him in this game. Also, the voice acting is notably better than it has been in past Sonic games ("Oh no, our weapons are useless!").

Party - 7
It's no Mario Party, but and while the game boards are a bit bland, some of the minigames themselves are downright excellent. You'll enjoy laughing at your friends as they try to play a violin without sucking and tearing rugs out from underneath a genie while hoping one of your friends screws up and pulls the genie off onto them. Some of the minigames don't work very well, but the ones that do make up for it.

Non-Gamer - 2
Don't even bother. This is a gamer's game. You might find some fun with a few of the non-complex minigames, but the main game will be a lobotomy to those who don't game.  

[Ceric]

You know I've rented and been through a good chunk so far and personally, I wished they would have mapped the forward thrust for the homing attack to the B or A button as well and reverse to the other one while also pulling back the camera when you reverse.  That would take care a good amounts of my gripes.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

What I don't understand is that the Sonic Team has been atrocius with every Sonic game in the last few, years, poor controls, and showed an obvious lack of talent. I do not buy the opinion that they developed the Wii controls to be "hardcore", I think they just lucked out that some people would buy the game and defend the controls because even though they are sloppily implemented, like about any control scheme, people can get used to it. I Have no doubt people got used to the new Sonic controls for 360, does that mean they are hardcore? No they are still piss poor, but like anything you can compensate in most every game.

In fact if the argument Smash, along with others used about SR's controls being nothing more than something you get used to, then that means any game that can beaten should NEVER be critisized for poor controls, because it just takes "Practice". They can be like Sonic, imprecise, clunky, but you can still get "used" to them if you torture yourself long enough. Reminds me of Tomb Raider, it had some of the sloppiest controls around, but hey people got used to them, so does that mean they were good? Or maybe something like Blasto, that game could be beaten, but the controls sucked, though I guess if you were a "hardcore" gamer they would turn out great, right?  

[Khushrenada]

Sonic Team wasn't directly responsible for this game. Someone else worked on these controls. I forget who but I just read about it awhile ago in a Nintendo Power when they interviewed the director of the game.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I do not buy the opinion that they developed the Wii controls to be "hardcore"

They didn't: they developed the controls to navigate Sonic through the levels and obstacles ahead of him. "Hardcore" is the fact that you can replay all of the levels for an attempt to acquire gold medals and all of the fire souls.

Quote
In fact if the argument Smash, along with others used about SR's controls being nothing more than something you get used to, then that means any game that can beaten should NEVER be critisized for poor controls, because it just takes "Practice". They can be like Sonic, imprecise, clunky, but you can still get "used" to them if you torture yourself long enough.

I probably spent, maybe 30-40 minutes before I had mastered the controls to the point where I was using Sonic to leap from platform to platform and get perfect timing so I was properly landing my jump cancels. When I say that the controls take longer to master, I'm comparing them to Excite Truck which ran you through the tutorial and then you pretty much knew how to do everything.

SR is a different animal in that you're constantly receiving upgrades which make you jump further, faster, higher, quicker, run faster, boost quicker, etc.

I've dealt with unusable controls and I've called them as such: these controls have a learning curve but are perfectly usable once you've learned them. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, trying to prove this point, but I honestly found these controls more than usable once I learned them. The fact that you did not has absolutely no bearing on my opinion of the game, just that I make sure to caution potential buyers that this game has more of a learning curve than any Wii title they've played before.