Author Topic: Are We Sure Metroid Prime 3 Will Have Online? Reggie's At It Again.... (Read 42507 times)

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #50 on:** February 16, 2007, 08:43:01 AM »

Jumping over people, locking onto them with A and flicking the Wiimote to leap upon them and tear them to shreds?

OH F*CK YES!!!!

Kairon · « **Reply #51 on:** February 16, 2007, 08:47:59 AM »

Or perhaps we could get some cel-shaded love from Team Fortress 2?

~Carmine "Cai" M. Re3d
Kairon@aol.com

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #52 on:** February 16, 2007, 08:48:44 AM »

You mean "The Incredibles Fortress 2"?

That would likewise be awesome.

UltimatePartyBear · « **Reply #53 on:** February 16, 2007, 08:51:32 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
But by that logic, Four Swords would have never been born, and I seem to recall you enjoying it.

They would have said, "Four player Zelda?!? NEVER!!!!"

Even Four Swords on the cube had a pure vs. mode: it was Zelda deathmatch.

Sorry. I seem to be falling into my old trap of editing and re-editing my posts until parts of my point only exist in my head. I, myself, don't think the Metroid setting should be expanded beyond the adventures of Samus. Samus having those adventures from a first person perspective didn't bother me at all (although Samus handling like a tank kind of did). A multiplayer mode is a side thing that has about as much bearing on her fight against the Space Pirates as Super Smash Bros. does. It doesn't really appeal to me much, but I have no problem with it. On the other hand, an RTS game featuring Galactic Federation and Space Pirate vehicles and ships fighting each other while collecting Phazon to upgrade weapons would sound cool, but leave me wondering why Nintendo didn't just make up a new setting instead.

The rest of the post was me trying to explain why someone would vehemently oppose the idea of something as relatively innocuous as a multiplayer mode in Metroid. I think I understand where that comes from because I'd also draw the line at some point (as I just demonstrated). I think we'd all probably draw the line at some point, even if we do differ on where.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #54 on:** February 16, 2007, 08:58:16 AM »

I couldn't give two sh!ts if Metroid Prime 3 went online or not. In fact if they could get the game out sooner by ditching it I would prefer it. For those that want Metroid FPS you've got your sh!tty Hunters game so let those of us you want REAL Metroid enjoy it.

It's stupid for Nintendo to push Metroid as their big FPS anyway. As it is the Metroid formula lacks the feel that FPS fans want and to change it would turn off Metroid fans. Nintendo either has to turn off one group of fans or make a compromise that neither of them really like. It's a waste of time and effort.

Nintendo should just make a new franchise to be their big fairly traditional online FPS. You can argue that it will lack the name recognition but Halo and Gears of War didn't have any name recognition initially but MS marketed them really well so that when the games came out the IP was already a household name. Besides Metroid does not have that good of a name brand outside the Nintendo fanbase anyway. A new IP would be a fresh slate without any pre-conceived bias against it. It also would be seen as something fresh from Nintendo, who is often criticized for rehashing.

Trying to put Metroid Prime in direct competition with Halo is like putting Metroid against Contra. In screenshots they may look similar but the two games are totally different.

Hell with a similar engine already in place Retro could probably make a decent FPS in a good time frame. I imagine they're getting bored of working on nothing but Metroid anyway and the Wii doesn't really need more than one Metroid game.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #55 on:** February 16, 2007, 09:09:39 AM »

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Originally posted by: PartyBearOn the other hand, an RTS game featuring Galactic Federation and Space Pirate vehicles and ships fighting each other while collecting Phazon to upgrade weapons would sound cool, but leave me wondering why Nintendo didn't just make up a new setting instead.

The same reason Bungie is making "Halo Wars" (a RTS) instead of making a new IP.

Here's a question from WAY out of left field...

Has anyone here ever played a game called "Giants: Citizen Kabuto"? It was done by Shiny entertainment (or one of its later iterations) and the game had a multiplayer mode that was so insanely in depth that I can't help but think that an online version of it would still have me playing to this very day.

In order for me to properly explain it, imagine Starcraft. Now imagine that you play as a Marine, except you do so from a 3rd person perspective in a 3D world, and that you and four other marines work together to issue commands to a group of SCVs who build buildings and defenses for your base, but you, the players, must personally acquire resources for the SCVs to use so they can do their work.

In practice, an ideal team of players would have certain players assigned to gathering resources while others were on defense and others still were attacking, or the team coordinated to assign players to tasks as they were needed so they could continue to push forward into the battlefield against other teams with their own bases and agendas.

I never played this game online, but I can only imagine that the teamwork and resourcefulness involved in a round of this would absolutely DESTROY the kind of teamwork needed in any other game to date.

In this way, it's complexity works against it, and maybe the game just came well before its time. Lacking online play and a matchmaking service made the game nigh-impossible to play with others (especially since, like Custom Robo, there was a long period in which players would need to become acquainted with the game before they could hope to compete in a match).

Has anyone heard of or seen anything like this to date? I wonder how it would compete in today's online-heavy gaming arena...

denjet78 · « **Reply #56 on:** February 16, 2007, 09:33:10 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
How many FPS out there have multiplayer modes that actually are a benefit to the single player experience? They're mostly just excuses to shoot at or with other people. They're a gaming experience all their own, and Nintendo needs to set the standard. If they don't do online FPS with Metroid, the perfect game for Nintendo to show third parties that it is possible on the Wii, then I'm afraid the Wii will never get a decent online experience.

And if they don't do it with Metroid, a console FPS where adding an online feature would be pretty straight forward, how can we expect them to do it with Brawl, a game so fast and intense that even developers experienced with creating online games would have problems with it?

For someone who constantly rallies around the idea that online is the future you just described the exact reason as to why I hate it and see it more as a distraction from real gaming than anything else. Online sucks. Online blows. In your own words "they're mostly just excuses to shoot at other people".

Do I care if MP3 is online? HELL NO! Do I care that putting a craptacular online mode into the game will cut into the single player experience? You better believe it. And Halo is a perfect example. Almost everyone universally pans the single player mode but loves the online mode (for some reason I can't fathom). Nintendo shouldn't have to add online to any games just because they feel like they have to keep up with the Joneses. Whenever they get around to dealing with online I want it to be a new, and actually fun, experience that can't be done any other way.

Developers are TERRIFIED of doing an online only game because they know that if they base it off of what online is today that it won't sell. Until online can stand on it's own, as it's own feature, it's little more than a gimmick. The thing is, I have faith in it, and I really REALLY want it. I think online could redefine gaming as we know it. It's just that someone is going to have to put the EFFORT into it and so far no one really seems interested.

Pittbboi · « **Reply #57 on:** February 16, 2007, 09:39:35 AM »

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Online sucks. Online blows. In your own words "they're mostly just excuses to shoot at other people"

I was talking about multiplayer in general. Not just online. And let's not pretend that the multiplayer in games in like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark weren't a major part of their success.

Multiplayer FPS is a legitimate gaming genre in its own right, and online is a natural extension of it that has so far enjoyed success on PCs and every other console but Nintendo's. Nintendo can shuck online all it wants, but don't kid yourself into thinking that it's because online isn't worth, because I think the rest of the gaming world would disagree.

UltimatePartyBear · « **Reply #58 on:** February 16, 2007, 09:49:49 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBearOn the other hand, an RTS game featuring Galactic Federation and Space Pirate vehicles and ships fighting each other while collecting Phazon to upgrade weapons would sound cool, but leave me wondering why Nintendo didn't just make up a new setting instead.

The same reason Bungie is making "Halo Wars" (a RTS) instead of making a new IP.

This goes back to my point about the setting being conducive to such things. The Haloverse has room for an RTS because Bungie always does a lot of work on the background. To squeeze an RTS into Metroid, you'd have to make room, and that goes back to the chafing of fans I was talking about.

Quote
Here's a question from WAY out of left field...

Has anyone here ever played a game called "Giants: Citizen Kabuto"? It was done by Shiny entertainment (or one of its later iterations) and the game had a multiplayer mode that was so insanely in depth that I can't help but think that an online version of it would still have me playing to this very day.

As a matter of fact, I have. Unfortunately, I can't comment on it. I played maybe the first level of single player before Deus Ex consumed me (I got both with an Audigy sound card back then, presumably because both games showed off EAX). I never got back to it.

There have been a few games that combined RTS and [FT]PS. Have you played Savage? It's the closest thing I've played to what you described. One player on each team is the commander, who has a bird's eye view of the game. Everyone else controls everything but the worker units, including multiple tiers of foot soldiers and siege engines. The workers can mine for resources (stone and gold) and build stuff. Players can mine, too, or earn gold by killing monsters or enemy troops. The commander spends the resources researching new units and items for the other players to use (at a cost of even more gold). The commander can give the other players orders, which are represented to them by shafts of light over their objectives, and he can give them a few buffs if he's built the right buildings. With a good team and a good commander, it really is a blast to play.

Ceric · « **Reply #59 on:** February 16, 2007, 09:53:29 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBearOn the other hand, an RTS game featuring Galactic Federation and Space Pirate vehicles and ships fighting each other while collecting Phazon to upgrade weapons would sound cool, but leave me wondering why Nintendo didn't just make up a new setting instead.

The same reason Bungie is making "Halo Wars" (a RTS) instead of making a new IP.

...

Metriod started life as an RTS but switched platforms and genre?

On the making room arguement. I have to disagree most notably because the Metroid Universe has always had a lot of fringe stuff to explain the why. It much like a novella. They have more indepth backgrounds over all then most novels I've read of comparable quality. I think Metroid has the overarching universe to support an RTS and I for one am curious to explore the Non-Samus side of that universe. The one with people and civilization...

JonLeung · « **Reply #60 on:** February 16, 2007, 09:54:52 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
I was talking about multiplayer in general. Not just online. And let's not pretend that the multiplayer in games in like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark weren't a major part of their success.

Now that you've reminded me, GoldenEye 007 DID have a good single-player mode AND a good multiplayer mode. Just because Halo's single-player is weak and Metroid Prime 2: Echoes's multiplayer is weak shouldn't mean that a game with both modes done well couldn't be done again.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #61 on:** February 16, 2007, 09:59:56 AM »

BWii will pwn online Metroid.

JonLeung · « **Reply #62 on:** February 16, 2007, 10:15:08 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
BWii will pwn online Metroid.

Samus Aran > Brigadier Betty.

Kairon · « **Reply #63 on:** February 16, 2007, 10:15:59 AM »

It's pretty cool to see everyone's different opinions on this subject. Some could care less about online, some want to use MP3 as a proving ground, some are absolutely adverse to the concept on grounds of either quality or thematic, some thing the franchise can't support a larger universe, and some of us remember Big Time Brannigan.

*ahem*

BIG TIME BRANNIGAN. Brush up on your extended universe characters people! B.T. is Back!*

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

* B.T. Brannigan is my younger brother's nickname on MP:H... go easy on him! Oh, and B.T. Brannigan IS a character from the extended Metroid universe.

UltimatePartyBear · « **Reply #64 on:** February 16, 2007, 10:36:24 AM »

It's not that the franchise can't support a larger universe. It's that building that universe necessarily broadens the focus. That's very difficult to do without alienating some of the fanbase. I also think that in the case of Metroid, it's unnecessary in the first place. Games that don't play like Metroid don't need to take place in the same universe, and will actually be limited by it if they do. I'd rather see new worlds created to support new franchises.

But I'm going to shut up now because I'm late for a birthday party.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #65 on:** February 16, 2007, 10:41:35 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric Metriod started life as an RTS but switched platforms and genre?

No, I mean that Bungie used the Halo franchise to make a RTS game because it's salable, the same reason Nintendo could do the same using the Metroid franchise.

There's the Galactic Federation, there's the Space Pirates, there's Metroids, there's other bounty hunters, there's the Ing, etc. There's no reason a Metroid RTS wouldn't be perfectly doable.

In fact, it has been pointed out a number of times that the Metroid, F-Zero and StarFox universes could EASILY be the same universe: F-Zero is rife with bounty hunters and anthropomorphic animals, Metroid deals with all manners of alien life and SF focuses on interplanetary combat with between anthropomorphic animals (not to mention "James McCloud" being an F-Zero racer...).

It'd likely never happen, but if they wanted to link the three universes, they easily could, be it for a RTS game or otherwise.

Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
It's not that the franchise can't support a larger universe. It's that building that universe necessarily broadens the focus. That's very difficult to do without alienating some of the fanbase. I also think that in the case of Metroid, it's unnecessary in the first place. Games that don't play like Metroid don't need to take place in the same universe, and will actually be limited by it if they do. I'd rather see new worlds created to support new franchises.

But how would a Metroid RTS be any different from, say, how Mario Party, Kart, etc. are spinoffs from the original Mario franchise?

RTSs are typically considered an older oriented genre due to the amount of brainpower they require. I see a Metroid RTS as being right in line with the subject matter a RTS should encompass.

Besides, a completely different dev team would likely be making the game, not Retro. I don't think anyone will be buying it expecting to play a staple Metroid game if it's advertised as a RTS from the very start.

King of Twitch · « **Reply #66 on:** February 16, 2007, 10:43:48 AM »

It sounds like he's saying MP2 sales weren't so good and so they'll try to make MP3 even 'better' to ensure sales are good, implying MP2 wasn't as good as it could've been which I vehemently disagree with. The last time they used perfect to describe a game was TP so I can only look forward to it.

"A year ago, people were challenging me: 'What are you going to do to make sure there's strong third-party support?' " Fils-Aime said. "We have it. Now folks are saying, 'Where's all your strong first-party titles?' They're coming. But we're being very strategic when we're going to launch them.

Nice going on the 'read my lips pledge'. it turned out just like the real one from back in the day! Another day, another set of facts in nintendoland. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #67 on:** February 16, 2007, 10:44:07 AM »

yeah i'd name it STUPIDCRAFT

"SC", get it?

Oh, and TP is officially a fanservice game. "perfect" doesn't apply, cuz Nintendo can't do new things.

Kairon · « **Reply #68 on:** February 16, 2007, 10:45:51 AM »

Nintendo fans cheered everywhere as Reggie lied to them. *shrug* Hey, what can you say? He's good Marketting.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #69 on:** February 16, 2007, 10:48:30 AM »

Reggie delivers entertainment. Job well done.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #70 on:** February 16, 2007, 10:51:51 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: MJRx9000 "A year ago, people were challenging me: 'What are you going to do to make sure there's strong third-party support?' " Fils-Aime said. "We have it. Now folks are saying, 'Where's all your strong first-party titles?' They're coming. But we're being very strategic when we're going to launch them.

Nice going on the 'read my lips pledge'. it turned out just like the real one from back in the day! Another day, another set of facts in nintendoland. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

All he seems to be saying is that Nintendo is trying to not step on the toes of its 3rd parties, and considering that Nintendo's own games are what 3rd parties fear most of all, it's a wise thing to be doing (or at least saying and reassuring of the fact).

Kairon · « **Reply #71 on:** February 16, 2007, 10:57:02 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
All he seems to be saying is that Nintendo is trying to not step on the toes of its 3rd parties, and considering that Nintendo's own games are what 3rd parties fear most of all, it's a wise thing to be doing (or at least saying and reassuring of the fact).

Agreed.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #72 on:** February 16, 2007, 11:12:06 AM »

Well personally I don't care much either way if the final product is quality, and that is not because I am not a huge fan of the Prime series. Personally if they can put together a great multiplayer mode online mode without detracting from the single player mode, I'd be in their corner. The problem is that I'm not sure a great multiplayer is possible, the Metroid series license is pretty limited in what can be "added" to multiplayer mode like things like vehicles and it runs the risk of two things:

1. Changing what the series was about and adding things like vehicles
2. Not changing the series license much but run the risk of having a generic shooter (Like Metroid Hunters)

I would really rather see Retro develop a new IP for online multiplayer, perhaps being the Wii's answer to Halo which Metroid Prime will NEVER be because they are two dfferent types of FPSs. If Retro is given free reign with a new IP, I'd much rather see them utilize that to create the "Benchmark" for Wii FPSs when it pertains to online since they do not have to be restricted by the Metroid License.

Artimus · « **Reply #73 on:** February 16, 2007, 11:22:29 AM »

This whole drought thing makes me keel over with laughter. A drought is a quarter with no worthwhile games. The PS3 launched in November and it just got its first worthwhile game. And yet people are oddly obsessed with the Wii's shortage? First party games are not required to avoid a drought. There are plenty of worthwhile games out this month and next month. PLENTY. Then Super Paper Mario is a huge release right at the start of April. This is not even close to a drought.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #74 on:** February 16, 2007, 11:25:47 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
This whole drought thing makes me keel over with laughter. A drought is a quarter with no worthwhile games. The PS3 launched in November and it just got its first worthwhile game. And yet people are oddly obsessed with the Wii's shortage? First party games are not required to avoid a drought. There are plenty of worthwhile games out this month and next month. PLENTY. Then Super Paper Mario is a huge release right at the start of April. This is not even close to a drought.

Not to mention the Wii has had some quality games come out, one being Wario Ware Smooth Moves, and hopefully Sonic and the Secret Rings Monday. This is probably one of the best post launches I've encountered. Heck even 360 hasn't had many if any worthwhile games for a couple of months!

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Author Topic: Are We Sure Metroid Prime 3 Will Have Online? Reggie's At It Again.... (Read 42507 times)