Topic: Manhunt 2 from Rockstar? Whoa...

[Shecky]

Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
Here's the catch, UncleBob.  Nintendo and Sony are Japanese companies.  What logic does it make for them to listen to an United States ratings board?  To what extent does this carry over to?  Will they allow the content in Japan or other Asian countries?  How limiting will this decision be?

Umm, they're international companies... they do business in more regions than just Japan obviously.

UncleBob is right... If there's a gray area here it's in the definition of AO.  

Best example I can come up with is that a couple of years ago, I was at Disney and they turned away a tourist wearing a shirt with offensive language.  They actually gave her several options (buy a shirt from them, turn the shirt inside out, go back to your place of stay and change).  Disney isn't violating rights in doing that, as they have the right to set some ground rules that they'd like to observe for the betterment of the park and their business.

To me the Disney analogy has closer ties to this situation than does the analogy of VCR's and X rated films, the later being a more generic format player.

Edit: The gray area is that Disney sets what is considered offensive.  Nintendo entrusts that decision to the ESRB, and has set a policy around that.  Since there are very few open/generic mediums for games (just computer gaming really...), and that there are not a lot of AO games (and thus no avenue to obtain them easily).  AO becomes this kiss of death, and so the question of if the game actually warranted an AO takes center light...

[BlackNMild2k1]

I hope they tone it down, but "forget" to take out the extra violence code, then "anonymously leak a way to unlock it about 6 months after release. Sort of like Hot Coffee, only intentional.

[Requiem]

Honestly, I'd be fine with watching the goriest parts just for entertainment's sake.

[Nick DiMola]

Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1
I hope they tone it down, but "forget" to take out the extra violence code, then "anonymously leak a way to unlock it about 6 months after release. Sort of like Hot Coffee, only intentional.

That would be awesome, but god only knows what would happen when it leaked. I'm sure Jacky-boy would be all over that and it would quickly turn into a nightmare for Take Two.

It really annoys me that no one will sell AO games, publish AO games or even think about AO games. The rating may as well be called BANNED, because you can't do anything with the game you made anyway.

[UncleBob]

If TakeTwo/RockStar want to release the game unlicensed, then they can give it a shot. (Datel released some unlicensed GCN games, afterall.  That's the fun part about the whole "freedom of speech" bit.  No one is stopping them from releasing their game.  And no one is forcing Nintendo, Sony, WalMart, EBGameStop, etc to have anything to do with it.  Just as it should be.

[Pittbboi]

Exactly. A lot of people, in their exuberance to be ultra-liberal "DONT PISS ON MY FREE SPEECH NINTENDO!!11" in this whole mess seem to not realize that they're attempting to piss on Nintendo's right to set and enforce their own policies.  

[Flames_of_chaos]

Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBob
If TakeTwo/RockStar want to release the game unlicensed, then they can give it a shot. (Datel released some unlicensed GCN games, afterall.  That's the fun part about the whole "freedom of speech" bit.  No one is stopping them from releasing their game.  And no one is forcing Nintendo, Sony, WalMart, EBGameStop, etc to have anything to do with it.  Just as it should be.

I highly doubt take two would like to be associated with Tengen, and I'm sure Nintendo and Sony will do a lawsuit ASAP if they released an unlicensed video game on their platforms.

[UncleBob]

They can sue all they want, but if TakeTwo/Rockstar did it correctly, the lawsuit wouldn't accomplish any more than it did against the creators of BubbleBath Babes.

[Spak-Spang]

I personally do not feel bad about Rockstar and Manhunt 2.  I am all for freedom of speech, but you know what...freedom of speech also means you must have the responsiblity of what you say/create, and not whine when it comes back to bite you in the butt.

Well, Rockstar decided to test Nintendo with this Manhunt 2...and created one of the gorest games that was designed from the beginning to be contraversal.  Now, it appears that the ratings boards believe they crossed that fine line between Mature and Adult.  

The being able to rip someone's testicles out and kill them is probably notion enough that fine line was leaped across.  And they have to live with an AO rating.  And Nintendo must decide if they want the heat for having an AO rated game on their system...and I can tell you right now that answer is an understandable NO!!!

So what happens now?  Rockstar can release it without license...there is nothing truly stopping them from doing that. (I don't think, anyway.)  Selling the game over the internet only and not having a presence would be tough, but not impossible.  

They could edit the game, but we are talking about massive edits probably, because the game is getting an AO rating for the extreme violence...which isn't just blood, but literally cutting people in half, wearing people's heads as a belt, and much more we probably don't even know yet.  Editting the game means potentially crippling the entire game.

Finally, they could just go with the AO rating and see what happens.  There will be places to buy the game...not many but a few, and finding and owning the game may be a viral campaign in and of itself...creating a huge underground type demand for it.  

[Pittbboi]

Spak-Spang:

Wait, I'm confused...doesn't software have to be licensed by Nintendo to even play on a Wii? That was the impression I was under. By not licensing the game Nintendo is keeping it from playing on their hardware. Not that I'm sticking up for Rockstar, though. Frankly, serves them right. They knew what kind of game they were creating from day 1, and they knew what Nintendo's (and Sony's, for that matter) policy on AO games was. I find it laughable that Rockstar thought they were going to bend Nintendo to their will with what is, essentially, the unwarranted sequel to what was a pretty mediocre game. And, honestly, if even half of what I read is in Manhunt 2 is true, I honestly would have to question the mental stability of a person who would take joy in playing a game like that (let alone creating it), and to claim that it doesn't deserve its AO rating is absurd.

[Deguello]

Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
It's not in public, it's a museum. You pay to get in, which is one of the best ways to give your consent that you want to see such things. People at rallies showing fetuses is completely different. People who walk by don't want to see that shite, so they end up b@tching which in turn gives warrant to the fine.

Plus, it is for science and the greater good of knowledge (don't reply to this statement as I know what you are going to say; I just wanted to write it anyways) and not just art. My father, a DVM professor is completely facinated by it. He said he was also facinated by the animal version.

Which brings about my next question: If we are animals apart of the same animal kingdom that rules this earth, then why are we not able to study ourselves to every degree we study other animals? Sure, if someone did not give consent over their body then I can see the moral delima, but what about those that did (even if in the form of organ donating)?

Quote
The AO hammer has to come down sometime, simply because the industry and its retailers have since been ineffective at keeping the sale of M rated games to adults. For example, just today I purchased the Wii edition of RE4 at Gamestop. Guy did not card me, and received no prompt to do so, despite his repeated attempts to get me a subscription to a magazine. Walmart gets the prompt. "Is the customer 17?" That's effective, but all the kid has to do is drag the parent who obviously brought him there to OK it. I think it's time for there to be a fine for selling M-rated games to minors, just like there is a fine for allowing minors into R-rated movies.

This whole paragraph doesn't make any sense. So your saying just because RETAILERS are ineffective at abiding by the ESRB guidelines that it is the fault of the developer? So your saying DEVELOPERS should make less violent/sexual games just because it'll get to the kid anyways? Your saying that PARENTS have no authority over what their children read, watch, or play and that the children FORCE parents to give the purchase an ok? And because of all of this the "AO hammer has to come down sometime" simply to revoke it's right to be sold?

What the hell are you talking about?!

I didn't mean a fine for the developer, I meant a fine for the store, keyword "sell," just like there are fines for selling children tobacco and alcohol (jail time for that one IIRC)

Edit: Man it is a cold day in hell when Pittbboi and I agree in a parallel fashion.

[Spak-Spang]

I dunno if software has to be licensed or not.  I guess I just assumed it has to be licensed to go through all the quality testing and such of a retail launch...but if it was only sold on the website maybe not?  I am not sure of those laws and practices...I guess the PC world/realm is different.

I actually think the premise and story of Manhunt 2 could be really great.  The problem is always whether the execution (pun intended).

[Pittbboi]

Quote
Edit: Man it is a cold day in hell when Pittbboi and I agree in a parallel fashion.

Yeah...it is a bit creepy...

Quote


I actually think the premise and story of Manhunt 2 could be really great. The problem is always whether the execution (pun intended).

Exactly. Manhunt 2 could actually be a very compelling game with its story (though I doubt it). But the level of sadism in this game is hardly justifiable. Pulling off someone's testicles with pliars? Raping a decapitated woman? Necrophilia? And all in realistic detail? ANYONE would have their work cut out for them justifying all of that. Rockstar simply can't claim ignorance in this. I'm glad they're getting their egos knocked down a couple pegs. Time to take responsibility with game design. Gore for the sake of gore is no longer going to cut it. In a way they've done the gaming community a great service. They're making that line in the sand between acceptable violence and excessive, gratuitous violence that should in some way be regulated all the more clearer.

What's really sad is that arguing this topic has made me come off as more prudish than I ever thought I was capable of being...

[EasyCure]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I dunno if software has to be licensed or not.  I guess I just assumed it has to be licensed to go through all the quality testing and such of a retail launch...but if it was only sold on the website maybe not?  I am not sure of those laws and practices...I guess the PC world/realm is different.

I actually think the premise and story of Manhunt 2 could be really great.  The problem is always whether the execution (pun intended).

this lil peice is importnat to think about for those who want to call the people who play it, as well as the people who made it, sick and disturbed.

the game does start up and say "go on a killing spree, have fun "
from what i understand of the story, it sets up how your character is in some sort of experimental facility and suffering from phychotic episodes. he's trying to escape his captors and survive amongst other demented and tortured pyschos. your character is unstable and becoming more and more so as the story progresses (i assume). if the game plays up the story and shows you becoming more unstable because of having to kill and because of it doing more and more extreme things, then i say its an artistic choice to do so and frankly im all for it if it can deliver a good enthralling story. its not just man vs man its man vs himself and deteriorating mental health.

then again the came could very well give you 2 minutes of story and have you mindlessly go around murdering your murderers. if that were the case i wouldnt spend $50 bucks on it personally, but im trying ot give TT/R the benifit of the doubt in hopes of a unique gameplay experience.

[ShyGuy]

Man, Tengen games were the best! Gauntlet, Tetris, Marble Madness...

[vudu]

Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok

Quote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
But I've never seen an NC-17 movie be banned. Kids was NC-17, so was Show Girls. Kids was an underground hit...and Showgirls...ruined Jesse Spano forever.

But have you ever seen a NC-17 movie get a wide theatrical release?

The best picture of 1969 says "hi".

[UltimatePartyBear]

That movie was not rated NC-17.  The NC-17 rating did not exist at the time.  (Technically correct: the best kind of correct.)

Showgirls is the only NC-17 rated movie to have a wide release according to Wikipedia (for what it's worth).

[IceCold]

I really didn't like the Polanski version of Macbeth..

So can someone explain to me something? How come Manhunt 2 is AO while the first one was only M? Did they decide that the Wii controls were the tilt factor, and that since the Wii version was rated that way, they needed to do the same for the PS2?

[Kairon]

Maybe the sequel actually went further than the original?

[Pittbboi]

Yep. It seems that a lot of people aren't considering that maybe Manhunt 2 is a bit more violent than the original. From the impressions I've read of the game that definitely seems to be the case. Granted, I bet the wiimote only heightens the level of violence, but the content of this game seems to be a lot more explicit, too.

[Blue Plant]

Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold

Did they decide that the Wii controls were the tilt factor, and that since the Wii version was rated that way, they needed to do the same for the PS2?

Apparently not.  Wii Not Behind BBFC's Manhunt 2 Decision

[Requiem]

So how is anyone going to make Wii-forplay with all this commotion?!

[Ceric]

Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
So how is anyone going to make Wii-foreplay with all this commotion?!

Call it educational software.

[Requiem]

hehe

How diabolically clever!

[ThePerm]

Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Is taking pictures of your cat and putting horrible captions on them, art?

mostly photography isn't art, its mostly just observational reproduction. Putting a caption on the picture makes it art however.