Topic: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

[Klapaucius]

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Originally posted by: Shecky
They outright feed you bombs and arrows in dungeons that made heavy use of either.

Personally, I would have been ok if grass didn't drop arrows either (although drops from the archers would still be fine).

Indeed, not only useful but also a subtle hint at the item you'll need to solve puzzles/defeat the boss.

Arrows doesn't come from grass very often, so that's okay. It is more realistic to have no bombs from grass, after all who would leave bombs lying around in the grass? I can believe arrows might be left on rare occasions, after all Hyrule Field is teeming with arrow wielding moblins.

[Ian Sane]

"It is more realistic to have no bombs from grass, after all who would leave bombs lying around in the grass?"

But having money in every pot and clump of grass IS realistic?  I think realism is flaky excuse regarding Zelda design since it seems to have a fair bit of videogame conventions that make for good game design but make no sense in the real world.  Link can also take multiple hits with bladed weapons and after he dies you can just continue and he'll be alive again.

Honestly the only time it really became an issue was when I was exploring this huge cave full of ghosts that required a lot of bombing so I ran out and then discovered that I couldn't just cut grass to refill.

[Caliban]

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Originally posted by: Artimus
Am I the only one who didn't find the water temple challenging at all?

You're not alone.

[KDR_11k]

It wasn't really challenging, took me a while to find the path to the master key and I think I had to talk to Midna to find out how to trigger the midboss (seriously, who'd expect camera orientation to have an effect on this?).

[Shecky]

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Originally posted by: Caliban

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Originally posted by: Artimus
Am I the only one who didn't find the water temple challenging at all?

You're not alone.

A lot of the dungeons were challenging, and I didn't find the water temple overly challenging.  It was a bit slow paced though.  Partially because I didn't know how to swim fast untill I had already finished the game (and saw someone else doing it).  I also like how I took the *slow* climb up the waterfall to revisit a chest only to be greeted by chump change.  Entirely my option and I don't hate the dungeon because of it.

As for the bombs in grass issue.  In reality, they were trying to build an economic system for the title - aka SPEND SOME MONEY.  I think they blew it a bit as everything was inflated beyond controll.  As for the realism of bombs as a drop, your taking the wrong approach.  Bombs are a finely crafted device and have a sole source in this game.  Money on the other hand is common gem to run across.  By shear example you collect 10000 worth easy in the game.  Makes sense that you run across tons of it

"seriously, who'd expect camera orientation to have an effect on this?" - one of those puzzles that have been used before (OoT: Gohma) and goes with my point earlier.  

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Artimus
Am I the only one who didn't find the water temple challenging at all?

Not challenging, just irritating.

[IceCold]

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"seriously, who'd expect camera orientation to have an effect on this?" - one of those puzzles that have been used before (OoT: Gohma) and goes with my point earlier.

If in doubt, look around..

[mantidor]

The camera is something that I would certainly miss in the other version, even though it only had two zoom levels instead of the completly free camera of the Wind Waker, but moving it around without having to go in first person was useful in some ocasions, not necessary of course, but I really just like to use it a lot, and without it I imagine it was harder to see where Link was looking at, a feature that was underused compared to the wind waker I guess because of the wii version, something that honestly sucks (Link discovering the secret in the private island house for me was just amazing, there were no moments like that in TP). It sucked you couldn't zoomed any closer too, or that you couldn't go into first person in castle town.

[Ian Sane]

"that you couldn't go into first person in castle town."

What the hell is up with that?  I assume it's a reference to Ocarina of Time's Castle Town but that was supposedly because of hardware limitations or a deadline or something like that.  I doubt it was required for the Cube/Wii hardware and I really think it's an odd reference because everyone I've ever met didn't like that about Ocarina.  If I can look around whereever I want in Majora's Mask I think I should be able to do the same thing in Twilight Princess.

Did anyone here upon encountering that for the first time think "Cool!  This annoying restriction is just like in Ocarina of Time"?  While we're referencing lousy Zelda stuff let's make us have to hold down the reset button to save for that old school feel.

[KnowsNothing]

Zelda games need more towns.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
The best song in TP, and the reason I was impressed by its soundtrack, is the song that plays when you first go to Hyrule Castle to meet Zelda.  That song reminded me of Chrono Trigger music.

Not ringing a bell, I'm afraid, this game really needs a full soundtrack released for it. My personal favorite cue from the game was Gerudo Dessert. Man, I would just go there to hear the tune even if I had nothing to do. Been a standard listen on my computer for awhile now too, but then I have always been a sucker for themes with a chorus. I will agree, though, that none of the dungeon music stands out in memory, sadly.

On a semi-related note, I was ecstatic when I saw Michiru Oshima's name in the credits, as she is one of my favorite composers with her "Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla" score being a personal favorite of mine. However, seems she only did the "trailer" music. Going back and seeing that trailer again, it's quite clear that it was using a full orchestra and sounds fantastic... a real shame that none of that was used in the game itself. Hopefully that makes it onto a CD sountrack someday.

[Shecky]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"that you couldn't go into first person in castle town."

What the hell is up with that?  I assume it's a reference to Ocarina of Time's Castle Town but that was supposedly because of hardware limitations or a deadline or something like that.  I doubt it was required for the Cube/Wii hardware and I really think it's an odd reference because everyone I've ever met didn't like that about Ocarina.  If I can look around whereever I want in Majora's Mask I think I should be able to do the same thing in Twilight Princess.

Did anyone here upon encountering that for the first time think "Cool!  This annoying restriction is just like in Ocarina of Time"?  While we're referencing lousy Zelda stuff let's make us have to hold down the reset button to save for that old school feel.

Notice how you can never see into the next "loaded" area.  Just a limitation of the engine, giving you first person access in the crowded town would look really bad if you gazed at one of those boarders and saw nothing  In fact it would probably look exactly the same as when you gaze into some of the houses in K town.  This is a Gamecube game remember...

[KnowsNothing]

I'm pretty sure from the South exit you can see into the Fountain Area, with people walking around and everything.  The strangest part is that those are the two busiest areas of the town....

[GoldenPhoenix]

I don't miss the camera at all in Zelda: TP, the game is so well designed that camera is seldom a problem. You still get the magnificient sites even if you have to go into camera mode.

[NWR_pap64]

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Originally posted by: VGrevolution
I don't miss the camera at all in Zelda: TP, the game is so well designed that camera is seldom a problem. You still get the magnificient sites even if you have to go into camera mode.

That's another thing. I felt the camera in WW was problematic. I always got some awkward angles or I couldn't find the right angle to work with. The camera is much better in TP, even if it gets stuck in some places and I get the occasional weird angles.

[Bloodworth]

OoT's camera couldn't be moved in Castle Town because it was pre-rendered.  I have no idea why they did it in TP.

[Artimus]

The castletown thing was REALLY odd. There was no need for the stuck perspective. Otherwise the camera was flawless and proves you do not need direct camera control in 3rd person games.

[mantidor]

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Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
I'm pretty sure from the South exit you can see into the Fountain Area, with people walking around and everything.  The strangest part is that those are the two busiest areas of the town....

You can also see people moving before you even enter the town.  

[Shecky]

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Originally posted by: mantidor

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Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
I'm pretty sure from the South exit you can see into the Fountain Area, with people walking around and everything.  The strangest part is that those are the two busiest areas of the town....

You can also see people moving before you even enter the town.

The people aren't the biggie... as for seeing into the town, they do provide some viewing overlap between areas and the fixed camera allows them to regulate how much they show.

Basically, my point is that by having loading times between the different areas, it shows that they couldn't have *all* of the castle town loaded, thus you can't exactly free look as some areas would be blank.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Bloodworth
OoT's camera couldn't be moved in Castle Town because it was pre-rendered.  I have no idea why they did it in TP.

That is one of the few things that bothered me about TP was the fixed angle in Castle Town, it feels awkard, like it is hiding limitations (which in itself is fine but when it FEELS like something was created to avoid problems, that is something that bothers me) within the town's graphical design.

[Klapaucius]

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It sucked you couldn't zoomed any closer tooIt sucked you couldn't zoomed any closer too

Did you not find the Hawkeye? Or do you mean zooming in third person mode, in which case yeah it did suck slightly. But on thr Gamecube I have much more camera freedom so its okay.

[KDR_11k]

What the hell is up with that? I assume it's a reference to Ocarina of Time's Castle Town but that was supposedly because of hardware limitations or a deadline or something like that. I doubt it was required for the Cube/Wii hardware

Considering that there's already enough slowdown with the restrictive default view I don't want to see the framerate you get when you look across the central place.

I'm pretty sure from the South exit you can see into the Fountain Area, with people walking around and everything. The strangest part is that those are the two busiest areas of the town....

At such distances you can use low res models or sprites.

[Ian Sane]

"Basically, my point is that by having loading times between the different areas, it shows that they couldn't have *all* of the castle town loaded, thus you can't exactly free look as some areas would be blank."

That could be avoided with clever level design.  In Majora's Mask Clock Town has an archway or tunnel between each of the four areas of it.  Thus the town is in full 3D and you can free look without seeing blank nothingness.

[KDR_11k]

Actually I take the "low res models" bit back, the fountain has no NPCs whatsoever around it when you're in the southern sector.  

[mantidor]

The number of NPC around the fountain changes throughout the day too, it was cool they had a somewhat basic schedule, although nothing beats the detailed schedule in Clock Town, probably the best town in Zelda games.