Topic: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

[NWR_pap64]

One other thing that keeps me away from giving TP a perfect 10 is the dungeon design.

I absolutely HATED the water temple and the sky temple. The water temple made me drop F bombs like I was a sailor (ask SB, he was there). The sky temple wasn't as annoying but did have an irritating design.

Which begs the question; WHY is the water dungeon always the most annoying dungeon in the Zelda games? The dungeon in OoT and MM were annoying as well hell, and the dungeon in TP carries on that tradition proudly.

I know they just want to make hard, challenging levels, but they really don't need to go down the aggravating path.

Outside those issues, I loved TP. The story is perhaps the best in all the Zelda games. It is also the best presented. The  facial expressions added a grand level of emotion to the characters and the story.  

[Smoke39]

The water temple was the first one that I really liked.  The sky temple wasn't bad.  Definitely not aggrivating.  Nothing in TP is very hard.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Smoke39
The water temple was the first one that I really liked.  The sky temple wasn't bad.  Definitely not aggrivating.  Nothing in TP is very hard.

Just to clarify the water temple is dungeon 3 right? If so it was relatively easy besides finding the big key which was hidden in a stupid place. At the moment I'm on the sky temple, and can see why some are frustrated.

[NWR_pap64]

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Originally posted by: VGrevolution

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Originally posted by: Smoke39
The water temple was the first one that I really liked.  The sky temple wasn't bad.  Definitely not aggrivating.  Nothing in TP is very hard.

Just to clarify the water temple is dungeon 3 right? If so it was relatively easy besides finding the big key which was hidden in a stupid place. At the moment I'm on the sky temple, and can see why some are frustrated.

What annoyed me the most is the overall level design of the water dungeon.

It gave me a headache trying to figure where the stairs in the central room lead to, and the small water caves near the end had me and SB pulling our hair trying to figure out where the exits were.

Tedious, annoying level...

EDIT: Another thing, me and SB agreed that they should've made the wolf transformation a quick button press affair. Just in case, I KNOW that we need to press Z in order to summon Midna and transform. But what I mean is that they should've made it so that you can assign the transformation onto one button, and when you press it, you instantly transform into the wolf.

Again, I know that the time it takes to summon Midna and transform into a wolf is short, but considering that you transform a lot in the game it should've been a very quick, instant option. After a while, the process gets tedious.

[Klapaucius]

I loved the big spinning stairs, personally. It turned the whole dungeon into one big puzzle.

My favourite dungeon is the Temple of Time. Every room had puzzles, it seemed no space was wasted, and the mini-boss was so much fun. I had loads of fun with the boss too, which not only looked cool but the surprise after killing it... Haha. ^_^

Sky Temple was a challenge... I don't mind it, but I despise the boss.

I don't see your problem with the Water Temple. Dropping bombs? What were you bombing so much? X_X

[NWR_pap64]

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Originally posted by: Klapaucius
I loved the big spinning stairs, personally. It turned the whole dungeon into one big puzzle.

My favourite dungeon is the Temple of Time. Every room had puzzles, it seemed no space was wasted, and the mini-boss was so much fun. I had loads of fun with the boss too, which not only looked cool but the surprise after killing it... Haha. ^_^

Sky Temple was a challenge... I don't mind it, but I despise the boss.

I don't see your problem with the Water Temple. Dropping bombs? What were you bombing so much? X_X

It's a matter of preference, then. Me and SB were very annoyed at the water temple, and we both agreed that the Zelda series have the tendency of creating water dungeons that are hard and annoying (the water dungeon in OoT perhaps has the most infamy). Hell, SB had already finished the game when I finally got it and even he couldn't figure out how the dungeon worked.

Not dissing anyone that loved the temple. I was just annoyed by how it was designed and it was one of the few instances in TP which made me wish it would end.

As for the bombs, if I remember correctly there were parts where you had to drop bombs in order to open passages.

Or are you talking about my F-bombs? I simply got annoyed of constantly running in circles trying to find the next room.

[Vert1]

The water temple got really annoying because of the music that played in it. It was like Nintendo designed the music to annoy you when you got stuck. The Sky Temple music was like that too but I didn't get stuck there.  

[Caliban]

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Originally posted by: Klapaucius
Sky Temple was a challenge... I don't mind it, but I despise the boss.

Opposite for me, annoying dungeon but it had one of the coolest boss-battles.

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Originally posted by: sycomonkey
After having beat it on the Wii I can not possibly imagine playing this game on a cube controller....

Definitely.

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Originally posted by: pap64
One other thing that keeps me away from giving TP a perfect 10 is the dungeon design.

I absolutely HATED the water temple and the sky temple. The water temple made me drop F bombs like I was a sailor (ask SB, he was there). The sky temple wasn't as annoying but did have an irritating design.

I think TP had the best overall dungeon design, the dungeons were made so that we would have to use a little bit more of our brain. Kids shouldn't play TP unless they can handle such comlexity, isn't that why the game is rated T for Teen (and up), I guess not.  

[NWR_pap64]

Oh as I like to call it...the freaky chicken chorus!

Doot-doo-odoot-doot-doooo!

[Klapaucius]

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Or are you talking about my F-bombs? I simply got annoyed of constantly running in circles trying to find the next room.

Hehe. I think you confused me with the "F-bombs".

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the dungeons were made so that we would have to use a little bit more of our brain

So true, and I love it. I understand not all gamers like to get a mental workout, but for me its no fun if I don't breakdown into tears once in a while from sheer frustration - only to be overjoyed and so proud of myself when I figure it out. There's no feeling that compares to finally working out a puzzle in Zelda after an age of head-scratching. I thought over a puzzle for almost a whole day, and then when I worked it out I couldn't get home fast enough to put it into action. ^__^ Satisfying.


Did anyone else love the mini-bosses? Not any boss in particular, but the fact that so much effort had clearly gone into their design? The mini-boss in the water temple stands out to me, and the disturbing Twilight Realm giant insect thing.


As a grumble, I wish attacking the Cuccos would do more than let me control one for a bit. Pointless, that. Amusing at first, then confusing, then very dissapointing. I want to be chased by a swarm of angry birds! Or at least some pigs.

[mantidor]

I can't see how all the neat new secret skills could be any better with the remote, how could they be any more intuitive or responsive, since such moves are impossible to be 1:1 with the actions on the screen, and I don't like 1:1 controls for the sword to begin with. I actually hate the new sword controls so much that I'm even considering skipping wii Zelda which makes me sad, I can only hope the completly rebuild the controls for the game and drop the terrible idea of swinging the remote for the sword actions, but thats very unlikely. I also wish they rebuild the dungeon concept of the game for that matter, how many times are they going to follow the "find 3 items to open the way  to find 4/6 items"? Even MM with its cliche-themed forest/fire/water/shadow dungeons felt more fresh. Zelda has plenty of room for new ideas without the game stop being "Zelda", and the remote can bring so much to that as well.

Aiming is better of course but that was painfully obvious since the remote unveiling, the remote is perfect for it, however I never felt the game to be difficult with the GC controller, maybe a little in the Stars game after I managed to do it in less than 40 seconds, breaking that record is hard with the cube's controller, and I guess it might be easier with the remote, but at that point in the game I didn't need to break the record anyway since I already got all the rewards the game could give you.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Anyone that complains about flicking the Wiimote to do sword moves obviously hasn't played the game on the Wii, I can see arguing it may not be as responsive as button presses, but it is far from something that is to be "hated". I understand completely why Nintendo shifted sword controls to flicking the Wiimote because the button placement is much better without having to also make room for an attack button. As it is now, things work seemlessly besides that one move that uses your shield as a weapons, besides that though GC gamepad seems like it would be confining. Nothing beats the intuitive nature of wiggling the nunchuck to do the spin attack either!

[Smoke39]

I noticed that TP's puzzles seemed a bit more in-depth than previous Zelda games, or that there were more of them, or something.  I really liked it, but they still seemed too easy to me.  I guess if they were too much harder I'd've just been annoyed, but it's just that nothing in TP was a challenge at all, save for perhaps a few of the extraneous things that weren't required of you.  It would've been nice if beating the game unlocked a hard mode or something.  Though I suppose there is always the option of doing a limited run.  I should try that sometime.

[Shecky]

The puzzles in TP were excellent.  Some are easier because we've all played a Zelda title previously.  Imagine playing this title as your first.  Different puzzles hold up different people... a few that left me scratching my head, weren't a problem for my bro and vice versa.

Anyone saying that they didn't experience even one puzzle that took a while to figure out - by themselves - is lying.

There were a lot of challenges in TP when it came to puzzles.  However, I can see if the overal challenge or difficulty was on the light side, as most brain puzzles don't leave your life in danger.  When the final boss is taking away half hearts per hit, it's not intimidating.  Sure I took me a life bar or two to figure out what to do, but execution thereafter is easy.  2D boss battles were usually really easy to figure out but took skill to execute, the exact opposite.

And water temples in Zelda are kind of always extra challenging.  I remember the water temple in LoZ:LttP wasn't exactly a slouch.

[mantidor]

"Nothing beats the intuitive nature of wiggling the nunchuck to do the spin attack either!"

Seriously? I don't see anything intuitive in that, at least not more intuitive than pressing and holding a button, just compare it with aiming, or fishing, now that is trully intuitive, the other controls are just the same, you are asociating an action, whether is pushing a button or waggling the remote, with an action on screen.

Which isn't really my problem anyway, even if the response of the remote was perfect for the basic motions I would still not see anything fun in doing that, I can't do a parry or a helm splitter in real life with the remote, but I want them on the game and I find it incredibly fun to do them, when the game tries to read the motions perfectly but for such moves it has to break that rule it just makes the whole thing fall apart, it loses consistency, and sword fighting without those impossible but neat moves is just boring.

[Blue Plant]

Spin attacking with the nunchuk just works beautifully. Period.

[IceCold]

mantidor, you can rest assured that it doesn't tire out your wrists at all - even after hours of playing..

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Seriously? I don't see anything intuitive in that, at least not more intuitive than pressing and holding a button

To do a spin attack quickly under the traditional method, you needed to spin the analogue stick in a full circle, then press B. This could just be done by wiggling the attachment, which is much easier.

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Which isn't really my problem anyway, even if the response of the remote was perfect for the basic motions I would still not see anything fun in doing that, I can't do a parry or a helm splitter in real life with the remote

You can do a parry. Remember that the context sensitive button (A) is still used the same, so if Nintendo chose to, they could have you press A for the parry. You don't need motion controls for that.

[Smoke39]

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Originally posted by: Shecky
Anyone saying that they didn't experience even one puzzle that took a while to figure out - by themselves - is lying.

How long is "a while"?

[Shecky]

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Originally posted by: Smoke39

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Originally posted by: Shecky
Anyone saying that they didn't experience even one puzzle that took a while to figure out - by themselves - is lying.

How long is "a while"?

> 1 - 2 mins

Gets you to stop and think.  A lot of people spend way more time than they think on some of these puzzles too.

[Smoke39]

There were definitely at least a few puzzles that took me a few minutes to figure out.  I guess the fact that they were a bit more engaging than usual just left me wishing they'd gone even further.

[KDR_11k]

I think so far I only had problems when I either didn't see something or lacked an item. Quite the opposite of my first Zelda game where I got stuck in the first room where you had to push a normally unmovable block.

[Ian Sane]

"Which begs the question; WHY is the water dungeon always the most annoying dungeon in the Zelda games?"

Probably because of the very nature of water.  One thing one often thinks of with water is water flow so they always include all sorts of water level stuff in the water dungeon to make it unique.  Personally I don't mind it as much as dungeons with large sections of the floor being untouchable as you often get with any fire or sky related dungeons.

The worst though is any dungeon that requires a lot of magic or some other consumable item so you have to load up on jars of the stuff and hope that you don't run out or that you'll find the option to refill inside.

In Twilight Princess the problem is bombs since you don't get bombs from jars or cutting grass.  Never start a dungeon without a near full bomb bag.

[mantidor]

I never had a problem with bombs really, I never run out of them even before getting the expansion bags.  

[Shecky]

They outright feed you bombs and arrows in dungeons that made heavy use of either.

Personally, I would have been ok if grass didn't drop arrows either (although drops from the archers would still be fine).

[Artimus]

Am I the only one who didn't find the water temple challenging at all?