Topic: Oh no, this can't be true...(about online play)

[Ian Sane]

"Unfortunately the only way to make Nintendo realize this is stupid is to not buy the game, but that's not going to happen because people will see Pokemon and rush out to buy it. And then we would have to assume that Nintendo would see that people aren't buying it because of the crappy way to play it online and not for some other reason."

Ah yes.  The annoying flaw in my attempts to let Nintendo know I want a REAL Pokemon RPG on a console.  Well actually they did listen to me once but the RPG sucked so now I want them to know that I want the game to be good as if I couldn't assume that would be implied.  I'm sure Nintendo has an entire team working on finding out the cause of those five or six sales they lose per games because of this.

"Which is why DS is such a huge failure, right? RIGHT?"

Nintendo's success doesn't change the fact that sometimes they make some really odd decisions that don't make sense.

[MaryJane]

what you or i see as a small threat isn't the same for a parent, or a lawyer.

Nintendo is just watching their asses, and in a way i agree, if i play someone online in a game, and now they can send me messages? What if its just some lonely dude living somewhere boring who wants a friend? Then what if he gets all single white female? I say do it up Nintendo, I would like unrestricted online play, but it should be done in a way that someone can't contact me afterwards. Perhaps this was the best they could come up with to have the game out so quickly. Maybe by the time the US gets it they'll make improvements, Wii is still an infant, give it some growing time, you wouldn't ask a 1month old to pee in a toilet right? Don't ask the Wii to be perfect.

EDIT: I couldv'e sworn this thread was only one page deep, I didn't read any other post besides the first page.

[ShyGuy]

Will you be my friend TP Zelda?

[BlkPaladin]

Ok first off I'm sorry I didn't read the IGN article before commenting. But still this will not be for all games. When I talked to Nintendo at E3 about making games for the VC to told me that their network would not be totally defined until the middle of 2007. Which means any games that use Connect 24 have to default to the network the Wii's is built upon and that is the DS's network. Which means that to use multi-player play to specific individuals you have to have network codes.

So by this time next year that sould be eliminated. Unless they want to do something like what I was mindless blabing in my orginal post.

[18 Days]

Hey guys. I'm just like, throwing this out there so bear with me.

Like. a Wii right. Sometimes, these thigns are shared amoungst a household.

Here's where my idea get's totally bizarre.

By creating individual battle passes, each with different friend codes, you might allow 2 or more people to have their own independant friend lists and battle records on the same Wii.

This isn't about safety, this is about Wii for the family, not for the one gamer nerd.

[franky005]

As far as I know, there is one code per game.

I do have a problem with this (if it turns out to be true).  I don't want to buy a game and then have to spend time searching for codes and sending messages, that is not why I bought the game.  There is no logical reasoning for not using the Wii friend list.  Of course, if this is growing pains I may understand, but I put in codes in my DS and it got annoying fast.

[18 Days]

It's like I'm just talking to myself here.

[IceCold]

That actually makes a lot of sense RAB.. I wonder if they can have multiple online profiles "within" one system code..

[Dirk Temporo]

Quote
Originally posted by: 18 Days
Hey guys. I'm just like, throwing this out there so bear with me.

Like. a Wii right. Sometimes, these thigns are shared amoungst a household.

Here's where my idea get's totally bizarre.

By creating individual battle passes, each with different friend codes, you might allow 2 or more people to have their own independant friend lists and battle records on the same Wii.

This isn't about safety, this is about Wii for the family, not for the one gamer nerd.

So Nintendo is expecting everyone in the household who wants to play to buy a separate game? I doubt that.

[segagamer12]

Its all lies. I dont think Nintendo will EVER take online seriously.

I think we will get a hand full of games, kinda like DS, that go onine and then they will forget about it in a year and then GC all over again.

Thats not sarcasm thats a genuwine fear and I hope the effing prove me wrong.  

[JonLeung]

Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
Its all lies. I dont think Nintendo will EVER take online seriously.

I think they take it more seriously than anybody, actually...they do it for profit.  They won't operate an online system that's not worth it to them.  I'm sure they have their reasons why there's not "Nintendo Live" that eclipses Xbox Live.

In Japan, Nintendo's been online several times.  Let's see here...

NES - or rather, Famicom...didn't it have some online thing, even back then?  Maybe not for games.  Stock-checking or something weird.  I forget, but I know the Famicom was at least capable of a primitive version of "online".

Super NES - or, again, Super Famicom...there was the Bandai Satellaview.  Sounds like something to look up on Wikipedia (like how much of it is really a Bandai thing) but it was clearly supported by Nintendo with BS Zelda, an F-Zero expansion, Wrecking Crew '98, some Picross games, and more.

N64 - didn't the 64DD have limited online functionality?  Looks like I should hit up Wikipedia, since I keep forgetting if it was even released.

Game Boy Color - some cell-phone ranking system with Pokémon Crystal.

GameCube - okay, it had a modem, and admittedly, didn't do too well.

Okay, online for the past with Nintendo hasn't been too great overall, especially for those of us outside of Japan who barely know that these options even existed.

But if online was "all that", why didn't things like the Bandai Satellaview continue on?  Either consumers didn't like it or it wasn't worth the trouble on Nintendo's part.  If they had a real winner on their hands shouldn't online become standard?  Something's wrong here.  Maybe Nintendo really doesn't get it.  But I wouldn't think that they don't take it seriously or that they've never been online before.  I would say that their being online is what makes them take it so seriously that they barely seem to be online.

The DS is a step in the right direction.  The Wii won't be a step back, I really think Nintendo's going for the DS vs. Wii (non-locally) thing here.  If Wiis and DSes can regularly connect with more games, it may blur the line between handhelds and consoles, which may actually be an incredibly smart thing to do with onlineness.  If only they had gotten the Friend Code thing right with the DS, then it could've been a smoother ride to that end.

[Kairon]

Jon Leung is right. Nintendo has been trying to get online in meaningful ways ever since the Famicom.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Pittbboi]

Jon Leung and Kairon, I'm sorry, but I call BS.

I don't consider those examples proof that Nintendo "cares" about online. If anything, those examples prove how much Nintendo "doesn't" care about online, because each one of those examples shows Nintendo taking what could be a solid idea, half-assing it, and blaming the lack of response on the consumer not wanting it, or "not profitable." It's quite possible that the "consumer didn't want it" excuse held water in the SNES days, but not on the Gamecube. Face it: Xbox Live proved that the means and the audience were there. Nintendo just didn't want to do it.

I don't think it's unreasonable at all to string Nintendo up over their online "strategy." They've been BS'ing for YEARS now. All throughout the span of the Gamecube's life, we were fed line after line after line about how Nintendo didn't want to jump into online until it proved "profitable" and until they could develop a worthwhile experience. We were led to eventually believe that the reason we didn't get online on the Cube was because they were perfecting the experience for the Wii. We excused Nintendo last gen because we thought that they would vicariously learn from the mistakes MS and Sony made, and gift us with a wonderful online system this gen. Heck, I even saw the phrase "Xbox Live Killer" several times.

And now the new gen is here and what do we have? WiiConnect24--an online system that's running neck and neck with the PS3 for the title of WORST. ONLINE CONSOLE GAMING EXPERIENCE. EVER. and nowhere near the quality of Xbox Live.

So where was all this thought? You can't tell me that WiiConnect24 is the product of years of R&D. It honestly seems like the threw it together a week before launch. I refuse to believe that Nintendo can't get this right. Nintendo is too good of a gaming company. And yet, out of everyone it's Nintendo that has been given the most chances to get this right, and yet consistently gets it wrong. The only logical conclusion I can reach is that Nintendo just doesn't care about online gaming, and if that's the case they just need to grow some balls and admit that, instead of getting us hyped up and hopeful over what ends up being a sub-par experience.

I know I sound pessimistic as all get-out, but this is one gamer that refuses to give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt, well...ever. We as gamers need to stop making excuse for Nintendo, and wait for concrete and explicit details before we start getting our hopes up. Because Nintendo is known for crushing them.

[Kairon]

It's hard to "care" about a business proposition that will

A. Lose you money
B. Is no where near your core proficiency
and
C. you have little content for from a gameplay-perspective

A big part of this is actually not just profitability, but that Nintendo really is trying to think up of new ways to use online connectivity in ways other than pure player-matching (which is basically what XBL amounts to, a whole lot of player-matching). You can trace the Wii Channels all the way back to the Famicom's forays into stock reports and horse derby racing, and you can trace our Mii use as recently back as Animal Crossing and N64's 64DD.

In fact, Animal Crossing is the best reason that Nintendo has EVER come up with to go online because it offers something beyond simple player-matching: new experiences that are actually integral at a gameplay level. Even Pokemon amounts to player-matching and isn't a real incentive: Pokemon Crystal users could network over cell phones in Japan. But Animal Crossing and actual social gaming? That grows beyond matching FPSers who want live opponents to blow up and belittle and complain about chocolate milk to, THAT's the sort of thing that Nintendo's been trying to achieve all throughout its online gaming efforts: meaningful connection over networks, adding to the couch multiplayer instead of replacing it. (incidentally, I think of Will Wright's Spore at this point as well: playhers don't play simultaneously but asynchronously provided each other new and dynamic content)

Yeah, it's true. Nintendo doesn't care about matchmaking services. But it's ALWAYS cared about networking connectivity, just way too much to settle for the connectivity without the game design, to settle for connecting player's egos instead of connecting their lives.

It's okay to complain about a lack of real network infrastructure and matchmaking capability from Nintendo as a hardcore gamer Pittboi. But to say that Nintendo doesn't CARE? ... that's disregarding years of Nintendo efforts to make online gaming mean something more than two arcade cabinest connected with a really long wire.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

P.S. The Super Famicom BSatellaview was weird... not only could you download games, but you would also play "broadcast" games at set real times, at the same time as many other Japanese gamers, to an actual voice announcer!

[Pittbboi]

Now that's putting entirely too much faith into Nintendo. They don't have the right to thumb their noses at "matchmaking services" until they do it right. That you would belittle matchmaking capabilities only makes Nintendo look worse, because it is something that, after all these years, they still haven't gotten right.

(and really, to say Xbox Live is nothing but matchmaking services is a little too much. Heck, Xbox Live Arcade is starting to make people forget about the VC, something I'd never thought I'd say)

I understand and appreciate your point; but I don't think that Nintendo, in the process of developing new and unique ways to deliver online gaming, should forsake features that are so basic everywhere else at this point. I'm looking forward to Animal Crossing Wii just as much as the next Nintendo fan. But you know what else I'm looking forward to?

Smash Bros.
Metroid
Mario Kart
Mario Party
Wario World

And a host of other games that would benefit ten-fold from a more cohesive online matchmaking experience. And I'm not the only one (that is the whole point of this thread, after all). These are all games that would benefit more from a Xbox Live method of online than a Animal Crossing one.

One lesson Nintendo needs to learn is that it doesn't always have to be this or that, one or the other. I'm sure everyone's looking to Nintendo to completely change the way we play games online. Just not at the expense of tried and true (And genuinely fun) methods. No matter what Nintendo comes up with, as long as playing games with people across the land remains a draw to online gaming (and it always will), "matchmaking" will have its place. And I'd much rather they perfect that first before trying to force some hippie new way to play on us.

(Besides, they're even failing a Network Connectivity at this point. WiiDisconnect24, anyone?)

[Kairon]

I WILL agree with you that Nintendo has this thing about being on their own proprietary path. But this is, after all, Nintendo. Their hardware philosophies are dictated by their game design needs. And as far as it looks, online matchmaking, the likes of which have wetted the appetites of thousands of hardcore gamers through Halo and BattleField and Madden... that sort of gaming just ISN'T the sort of thing that Miyamoto or even Iwata seem to be greatly interested in in terms of where they see Nintendo's internal software going.

It goes back to the very basic philosophies and legacies inside Nintendo, and back to countless other debates of this nature. The people who shape Nintendo, especially Miyamoto, just have different priorities than the hardcore gamer. Otherwise we wouldn't have gotten Nintendogs.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[segagamer12]

true all of it, but still they DID promise Wii would have online like DS has and so far it DOESN'T.

Also its not just weather or not Nintendo goes online but if they don't 3rd parties wont either and then its GC all over again. COD3 could have, no SHOULD have been Online, or at least LAN capable, or multi player at least. Now If COD3 is single player on ALL consoles then Ill shut up cuz its Activisons mistake. IF not its Nintndos fault.


Teh infratsructure was there, or thats IS what they kept leading us to believe. I love Wiiconnect24 and its conecpts, but i also really want to play Madden and Doom or eqeuvelants online like I can with Live.


Otherwise I will end up getting a 360 to play Live and maek Wii second rate console this gen since I went other route last gen beleiveing Nintendo would wake up some day.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
true all of it, but still they DID promise Wii would have online like DS has and so far it DOESN'T.

...

Otherwise I will end up getting a 360 to play Live and maek Wii second rate console this gen since I went other route last gen beleiveing Nintendo would wake up some day.

First off, the DS didn't have online until a year into its life. So if that's what you say Nintendo promised you, then I'd be worried.

And second, I REALLY recommend that you buy that 360 when the inevitable price drop comes around. It has a much more robust hardcore gamer online service than Nintendo will EVER offer.

After all, Nintendo's been telling everyone that it wants to be their "second" console. I think you should take them at face value.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com