Topic: Bad reviews + high sales = 3rd party LOVE

[Smash_Brother]

I have to hand it to Gamespot for predicting this ahead of time.

But it goes a step further than a simple rub-it-in mentality. Oh boy, does it ever.

You see, if launch titles like Red Steel, Rayman and SMB were getting rave reviews, it would make 3rd parties more leery on making games for the Wii because, let's face it, most games aren't AAA material, not even close. Many 3rd party games are lucky to come up with an 8 in reviews.

However, with all 3rd party games getting so-so reviews and yet STILL selling as well as they are, it's a super kick in the teeth to all of the developers who chose not to develop for the Wii early on. Red Steel, for example, has generated more flame than your average parade in San Francisco, and yet it's being reported as the #2 selling title behind Zelda, and with the tie-in ratio being 1:3.5 for the Wii, it and other 3rd party titles are indeed reaping the benefits...and doing so with games which many consider unpolished and often buggy.

In other words, your average 3rd party who skipped out on the Wii launch is likely pounding their head against a desk somewhere, saying, "Dammit, that should be OUR sh*tty game!!!!"

What does this mean? It means that the Wii does indeed offer new gaming experiences, so much so that people are willing to spend money on the typical unpolished launch titles rather than wait for better games to arrive down the road. With the console being the cheapest to buy AND the cheapest to develop for, I think it's safe to say that the Wii has already cemented an immense amount of 3rd party support for itself, especially with companies like Disney and EA dedicating entire gaming studios to Wii development.

It's ironic that titles like Red Steel and SMB, which top Amazon's Wii sales charts, are better off with worse reviews than they are with rave ones in the interest of securing more Wii 3rd party support...

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

The individual games aren't better off, rather, it's the overall publisher support (and future games) that's better off with worse launch reviews.

I just rearranged your wording, that's all.

Regarding future games and the application of new control tech, the bad reviews do highlight what works and what doesn't, which is important for improving the next wave of titles.

And yeah, the most important reaction we've seen is so many people are willing to try (and buy) something "really new".

[zakkiel]

The flip side, of course, is that we are more likely to be deluged with crap.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

^ Truth

[King of Twitch]

All I can say is..

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=11824

ha ha ha, bwiitches.  

[couchmonkey]

It'll result in a deluge of crap, but it'll also result in a deluge of games that you couldn't get on GameCube.  I'm willing to walk past 40 bad games to get a title like Okami or Guitar Hero.

[Rhoq]

Like it or not, one of the fault that many people saw with the GameCube was that compared to the PS2 and XBox it's library of available titles was much, much smaller. True, without the onslaught of pure crap that flooded the PS2 and XBox, the 'Cube had a much larger concentration of "quality" titles, but the way I see it is this...Let the Wii get as many titles as it possibly can. In order for Nintendo to be perceived as a force to be reckoned with, I hate to say it but, quantity is going to matter in the long run. Besides the "kiddie" image, people overlooked the 'Cube because it had a smaller selection of games to choose from. Quality is really just a matter of opinion anyways.  

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Rhoq
Like it or not, one of the fault that many people saw with the GameCube was that compared to the PS2 and XBox it's library of available titles was much, much smaller. True, without the onslaught of pure crap that flooded the PS2 and XBox, the 'Cube had a much larger concentration of "quality" titles, but the way I see it is this...Let the Wii get as many titles as it possibly can. In order for Nintendo to be perceived as a force to be reckoned with, I hate to say it but, quantity is going to matter in the long run. Besides the "kiddie" image, people overlooked the 'Cube because it had a smaller selection of games to choose from. Quality is really just a matter of opinion anyways.

I've mentioned this before, and its true. People often see quantity first, quality second. I mean, when people buy a console, they want to get their money's worth. If they see a certain console that sports THOUSANDS of games to try, they will go ahead and support the console.

To play devil's advocate, you WILL find crap, but you will likely find unknown little game that prove to be fun and solid.

So to sum it up:
popular console + high quality first party exclusives + solid third party games = A CONSOLE SOLD.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: zakkiel
The flip side, of course, is that we are more likely to be deluged with crap.

Crap is inevitable.

Which is more likely to happen?

A) 3rd parties, seeing the bar set so low for Wii games, will jump in with as much software as possible.

B) 3rd parties, seeing the bar set so high for Wii games, will buckle down and start producing only AAA titles for the system.

It's funny because Sony actually HAS the latter problem, with Namco's recent statement that a company needs to sell at least 500,000 copies of a PS3-developed title before they make ANY money back due to high development costs and Sony's push for HD.

Yes, we'll get crap, too, but some people inexplicably enjoy crap, and their total sales figures still count in terms of Wii purchases.

Sony won last gen because they had the most games. That's it. They had the weakest hardware, were difficult to develop for, were not the cheapest on the market, but they won because developers chose them for simply having the most games and thus the most installed userbase.

It's really just a question of who gets the 3rd party support en masse, and if 3rd parties see the Wii as a console they can develop for cheaply and still make a hefty profit even if their games aren't that good, it's going to win the coming console war.

For example, 90% of the DS games are very much crap and yet the DS continues to dominate. The same was true with the PS2, the same is shaping up to be true for the Wii.

[ryancoke]

Quantity is really important for a console. Look how sony is promoting it's backwards capabilities. They say that not only can the PS3 play next gen games, it can also play PS2 and PS1 games which gives it a huge library. Sony doesn't mention that two thirds of PS1 and PS2 games suck arse...  

[zakkiel]

I agree with everything. I just hope developers see the message more as "we can do great on the Wii," and less as "the Wii base will eat all the crap we can shovel at 'em."

[Crimm]

Quote
Originally posted by: zakkiel
The flip side, of course, is that we are more likely to be deluged with crap.

Ah, I can't wait for Kim Possible: Operation Wii.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: zakkiel I agree with everything. I just hope developers see the message more as "we can do great on the Wii," and less as "the Wii base will eat all the crap we can shovel at 'em."

Believe me when I say that I'm 110% behind you in that sentiment, but I'm not that optimistic.

For many developers, all they can make is crap, but like I said, even crap increases the total number of games on the console and as a result, aids in expanding the user base.

The PS2 had a nonstop flood of garbage titles, but between those were the AAA games which warranted a purchase of the console and those are what made it the #1 last gen.

Nintendo is in the running to get the same treatment this gen, aided by the fact that they're easy to develop for and they have an innovative new console which most developers are loving while still maintaining support for classic controllers and even GC controllers (which can be used by Wii games at any time).

I expect a steady flow of crap, but it's the AAAs which will also show up which will make the console #1.

[Ian Sane]

I'm not really all that enthused that crappy games sell well on the Wii.  It would be better if there was at least one really awesome third party game on the Wii that sold better.  So thus all games sell well but great games sell better.  I don't know if we're going to benefit from this.  I want third party games to sell well BUT I do want some discouragement from making crap.  I think a problem with the Cube was more that third party games in general didn't sell all that well.  First I want to see third parties I care about like Konami and Capcom giving us their A material before I start jumping for joy.  This is still better than all third party games selling like crap though.

Though I question if these initial sales really tell the whole story.  I don't see the Wii in stores anywhere.  The people who own Wii's right now are all hardcore nuts who have been anticpating this new console for years and thus are probably going to buy a lot of games.  I think the real test would be Cars sales.  I belive Cars is the worst reviewed Wii title and it's a game that hardcore gamers would never buy.  That is probably the best indication of how well crappy third party games sell on the Wii.

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I'm not really all that enthused that crappy games sell well on the Wii.  It would be better if there was at least one really awesome third party game on the Wii that sold better.  So thus all games sell well but great games sell better.  I don't know if we're going to benefit from this.  I want third party games to sell well BUT I do want some discouragement from making crap.  I think a problem with the Cube was more that third party games in general didn't sell all that well.  First I want to see third parties I care about like Konami and Capcom giving us their A material before I start jumping for joy.  This is still better than all third party games selling like crap though.

Though I question if these initial sales really tell the whole story.  I don't see the Wii in stores anywhere.  The people who own Wii's right now are all hardcore nuts who have been anticpating this new console for years and thus are probably going to buy a lot of games.  I think the real test would be Cars sales.  I belive Cars is the worst reviewed Wii title and it's a game that hardcore gamers would never buy.  That is probably the best indication of how well crappy third party games sell on the Wii.

Ian, I think with developers focusing more on the Wii rather than making the same game for a million consoles third party games will be better than your typical third party game. Companies are now creating development studios solely for Wii game development. This may not guarantee triple AAA titles on the Wii, but it will encourage them to be creative and create games that can only be done with the Wii (kinda like how Rayman went from being a multi console game, but became a Wii exclusive for now).

As for Cars, you have to remember that licensed games don't tend to do well with the gaming crowd due to obvious quality issues. Plus the game has already been widely available across all consoles. I wouldn't be surprised if the XBOX 360 version suffers from the same thing. I played the game and thought it was fun. Nothing too special but something that kills a couple of hours.

As for Konami and Capcom, they are weird. I mean, neither of them supported the DS, only releasing a couple of games. Yet, both of them were gaga over the PSP, when its clear that its a failing console. I suspect money hats are in play here. I mean, how can you IGNORE making games for the hottest system in the planet right now?

But you seem to be forgetting Square, Ian. You may not care about them, but millions, including the entire country of Japan, DO. And not only are they backing both the DS and the Wii, they said they didn't want Sony to be the market leader.

Wii at least has support from one major third party developer and thats a HUGE advantage the GC and even the GBA didn't have in the past.  

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane Though I question if these initial sales really tell the whole story.  I don't see the Wii in stores anywhere.  The people who own Wii's right now are all hardcore nuts who have been anticpating this new console for years and thus are probably going to buy a lot of games.

Actually, a good many of them were parents standing in line for their kids (some of whom I met in the line I was in) and some were surprisingly older people who wanted one for themselves.

As for 3rd party support, the Wii's support is hard to gauge in the east from Japanese devs, but it already has some pretty solid support from typical Western devs, including EA, Disney and Ubisoft, all of whom are dedicating entire dev houses to the console.

You can write them off if you like, but many of EA's franchises are staples in the purchasing list of the American gamer, and with the Wii's obvious sports capabilities, it looks as though EA can't wait to make the next iterations of their franchises Wiimote-worthy.

Banco (Bandai-Namco) has already promised 30 Wii titles, as well as a FF and DQ spinoff from Square and Sega was rumored to be shifting support from the PS3 to Wii. It's Capcom and Konami who seem to be somewhat silent on the matter, but I think they're waiting to see how the sales figures pan out for Nintendo vs. Sony before they REALLY start throwing down support.

Keep in mind that all the Wii needs to do to receive the lion's share of 3rd party support is offer 3rd parties the best return on their game sales via cheap dev kits (remember Namco said the PS3 was so expensive to develop for that a game needed to sell 500,000 copies before it began to break even on investment) and mass-market appeal to a broad range of customers.

In case no one noticed, the Wii already has both of these, making it the default winner in my mind. Devs all seem to love it save a few skeptics and customers love it, especially the low price and ease of use of the console.

Unless Sony decides to drop the price and drop the HD requirement for all of their games (not to mention make enough units that the 500,000 sales required to break even on a game's dev cycle are even POSSIBLE, let alone feasible), then the Wii wins in Japan and the holdout Japanese devs are going to begrudgingly bring their support to Nintendo.

With combined support from east and west, Nintendo wins, period.

[zakkiel]

An interesting bit on this subject from IGN:

Quote
Additionally, the Wii launch titles Red Steel and Rayman Raving Rabbids, both performed well according to Ubisoft officials. Both games ranked within the top five best-selling Wii launch titles, with Red Steel coming in at number two. As a result, Ubisoft plans to strengthen its support of the Wii platform going into next year.

 

[IceCold]

Strengthen it's support? How much more can they put out?

[couchmonkey]

Hopefully it means they'll make more original games and put more effort into the ports rather than just slapping even more cheap Xbox and PS2 ports on the system.

I'm thinking of looking into Ubisoft investment-wise.  Not sure how well the business is run, though.

[Kairon]

EA owns 20% stock in Ubi. Take that for what you will.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Kairon]

*snip*

Wrong thread!

/blush

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com