Author Topic: No More Heroes for Wii!!!!  (Read 207593 times)

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #125 on: March 12, 2007, 06:20:02 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666
Thanks a bunch.

You've basically shown us that you believe an EFFING INTERNET TRAILER particularly one that I didn't encode accurately reflects the quality of the final game, in-person, in-motion.

The newest trailer is pretty sh!tee.  Poorly processed, and generally poorly encoded, which is pretty typical by turn-of-the-millenium standards.

Since you're that easy to fool, I can't find you credible, and not many others should either.

~~~~~

On killer7, congrats on not ever finishing the game.  You read the plot summary?  Thanks, you just spit on all the "games are art" proponents (there's so many of those wackos around it's not funny anymore) by totally bypassing the visual storytelling and atmosphere of the stages and events.

I see quite a few people here looking forward to No More Heroes, and it's pretty likely they've all finished killer7.  It's no wonder you don't "get it," and you probably shouldn't finish killer7 cuz  (1) such a straighforward game (on on-rails shooter with some simple adventure puzzles mixed in) is too difficult for you, and (2) you're not going to get it.

You have trouble with analog aiming?  Please say you never finished RE4 or Perfect Dark and admit you're just not as practiced and adjusted like the many gamers here.  Both are FAR more difficult than killer7; not only do you have to aim and kill 100x more repetitive series of enemies than in killer7, you get to run too (with many more chances of getting yourself killed due to poor positioning and navigating).

Really, given a gaming period from 1998 to 2005, that's a LOT of time to practice analog aiming, from Ocarina of Time, all the way to killer7.  It's practically a staple skill (but replaced thanks to Wii).

If you've scored the max # of points at the Gerudo horseback archery game in Ocarina of Time back in the day, raise your hand.

( '3')/


Did I hurt the poor baby's feelings? What a smart ass. I personally don't like Perfect Dark (I have beaten the game) and never have been a fan of RE4, it is a good game but nothing amazing, though I feel it has more depth in its gameplay than Killer 7, whether it be the bosses or pacing. I'm not sure why you have to insult, perhaps it is to make you feel better? Perhaps you should also play some PC games, they put the aiming controls to shame in most console games. What I find most disgusting about yourself, is that you critisize me for looking at trailer that is supposed to REPRESENT the final product, and it did a poor job of it. Could it turn out fine in the end, yes. But still the gameplay looks shabby in the trailer (Clunky animations, poor framerate), and I doubt you have even played it, so you are just as credible as the rest all we have is what is being shown on trailer. Not sure how that makes me less credible, I'm seeing what you are seeing. You can read all you want about games but I've learned you can't go off what sounds great on paper (Fable anyone?).

In regards to aiming, I felt Killer 7s aiming was hurt more by the scanning than anything, which seemed there to make things harder than they should of. Was the game really that hard? Ehhe, not really but I just didn't feel the need to trudge through it, heck I have talked to people who enjoy the game but say it is a "pain" to get through, just that the style and story makes up for it. In fact the only arguments I see about Killer 7 is the style and story, the rest of the game seems glossed over, almost like solid design, puzzles, exploration, variety, etc take a back seat to the unique visual style (well partially unique, because cell shading was used previously). The game felt low budget, and that is never a good sign, and I got the distinct impression that the on-rail design choice was to help mask it.

As far as I can see if you aren't thrilled with the game you are not respected at all, in fact if you have anything negative to say "No More Heroes" even after a poor trailer, that your opinion does not matter even though NO ONE HERE has freaken played the game. All we have to go off is trailers and what is written down via the tidbits of information on the net. Sounds like pure fanboism to me, or IMO an elitist mentality.

"Hey look at me I like this oh so hardcore game Killer 7, if you don't like it, you suck or can't understand it"-----------Face it many people don't like Killer7 for legitimate reasons, as some may not like Zelda: TP for legitimate reasons (though those are in the minority). It has nothing to do with their gaming skills, but design choices that are not everyones cup of tea. You want to know something else? I was probably one of the first to buy Killer 7 because I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO IT even after the reviews, and bought it for full purchase price a week after it came out for GC.

So I'd say my opinion should count for something, I gave the game a chance long before it hit "Hardcore" status for the elites to look down on everyone else who may not like its design or gameplay choices. So back off Pro, your condescending remarks are pathetic and childish. I wanted to know what exactly you guys seem so hyped about No More Heroes and choose to look over some poor programming in the trailer, there wasn't a single comment I could find regarding that, and I would think it would worry some. Studios are not perfect, especially smaller ones, and it is perfectly legitimate to remain a skeptic when the main source of gameplay footage isn't impressive from a technical standpoint. Not to mention Grasshopper hasn't had an experience or quality filled lineup of games.
 
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #126 on: March 12, 2007, 06:22:23 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Professional just said everything I was thinking.

EDIT: I also hope that No More Heroes has as many mature themes in it as Killer7 did. Killer7 was a refreshing break from the multitudes of games that are rated Mature, but aren't actually mature.


I agree in that many games out now are mature without being really "mature". GTA comes to mind, the game, while fun, has some pretty immature themes in it. Then again raunchy, lude, and violent is the "cool" thing, and is preferred when a game is rated mature than something that is truly mature in its storytelling or themes.  
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Offline Mario

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RE: No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #127 on: March 12, 2007, 06:38:28 PM »
I think we need an "immature" rating.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #128 on: March 12, 2007, 06:39:43 PM »
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Originally posted by: Mario
I think we need an "immature" rating.


Or rated "FM" for False Maturity.
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Offline Pittbboi

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RE: No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #129 on: March 12, 2007, 06:42:44 PM »
Quote

I wanted to know what exactly you guys seem so hyped about No More Heroes and choose to look over some poor programming in the trailer, there wasn't a single comment I could find regarding that, and I would think it would worry some


I'm not trying to enter into this debate, as I agree with you that from a purely technical standpoint (framerate, animations) the trailer is somewhat lacking. What gets me so excited is the fact that it's one of the first mature games built from the ground up exclusively for the Wii, and despite the technical aspects (things that could be polished before the final product) the game seems to have a lot going for it. The concept is mature and somewhat original, yet doesn't take itself too seriously (much like a Terantino flick--deliciously campy). The game is stylish as all get out, top-notch art direction. I'm obsessed with Shinobu, and so far we're not even sure if she's more than just a 5 second boss character. This is the first game that actually has me interested in how the controls will be implemented; there's no 1:1 swordplay (), but nothing about what we know about the controls seems tacked on, and I have a feeling that this will be one of the first games that near unanimously gets them right.

It may not be the hottest looking game as far as framerate and all that, but everything else about it is pretty darn sexy.  

Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #130 on: March 12, 2007, 06:44:54 PM »
"As far as I can see if you aren't thrilled with the game you are not respected at all..."

I think it's more because you waltzed in with a steak in your pocket, wagged it around, and proceeded to bail out the window into a vat of bacon grease!

"What gets me so excited is the fact that it's one of the first mature games built from the ground up exclusively for the Wii"

'Tis a shallow reason to be excited...You get excited because Suda is bloody awesome...  
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #131 on: March 12, 2007, 06:45:11 PM »
Thanks for the good response Pittbboi (from you of all people?!? I'm shocked). Personally I may pick the game up, but I need to see more then what is on paper or in the trailer. I don't want to walk into a big dissapointment, even if it is nice to see a mature rated game being built around Wii.
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Offline Mario

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RE: No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #132 on: March 12, 2007, 06:45:41 PM »
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I'm not trying to enter into this debate, as I agree with you that from a purely technical standpoint (framerate, animations) the trailer is somewhat lacking.

I think what Pro is getting to is that that's the fault of the actual video capture not the game, and that you can't really tell how the game is technically from it, so there's no point discussing that aspect yet let alone pointing to it as a negative aspect of the game itself.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #133 on: March 12, 2007, 06:49:39 PM »
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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"As far as I can see if you aren't thrilled with the game you are not respected at all..."

I think it's more because you waltzed in with a steak in your pocket, wagged it around, and proceeded to bail out the window into a vat of bacon grease!


Ummmm, I'll admit I've been very critical of games like Killer 7 and this but that is because I am able to gather solid information regarding the game. I don't want fanboi admiration of Killer 7 to get in the way of helping myself make an informed decision, I want to get to the heart of what makes this so special. If it turns out to be a game that is style over substance (at least how I view Killer 7) or another way of putting it, the right gameplay balance, then I want to pass. But if it will be more to my liking in gameplay choices, then I'll definately consider it.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #134 on: March 12, 2007, 06:52:02 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Mario
Quote

I'm not trying to enter into this debate, as I agree with you that from a purely technical standpoint (framerate, animations) the trailer is somewhat lacking.

I think what Pro is getting to is that that's the fault of the actual video capture not the game, and that you can't really tell how the game is technically from it, so there's no point discussing that aspect yet let alone pointing to it as a negative aspect of the game itself.


But when that is all you have, you don't have much choice but look at it from that perspective. I'm not sure how Pro knows if it is bad video capture or not, but the point is that none of us know what the game is looking like besides the trailer, bad capturing or not. Still doesn't explain the stiff animations and some other things that I felt were amiss (I'll have to look at it again, but some things looked off).
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #135 on: March 12, 2007, 06:59:45 PM »
I disagree with the statement that Killer7 falls under "games as art". It falls under "games with art" but to be a game AS art it must make better use of the fact that it's a game. Most artistic games are art ducktaped to a game, using cutscenes and other non-interactive ways to implement that art. While Killer7 seems to have nice art to it the game part is silly and feels like it was meant to be something else than it is.

Also, P.N.03 > Killer7 because gameplay > tacked-on graphics and story.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #136 on: March 12, 2007, 07:04:07 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I disagree with the statement that Killer7 falls under "games as art". It falls under "games with art" but to be a game AS art it must make better use of the fact that it's a game. Most artistic games are art ducktaped to a game, using cutscenes and other non-interactive ways to implement that art. While Killer7 seems to have nice art to it the game part is silly and feels like it was meant to be something else than it is.

Also, P.N.03 > Killer7 because gameplay > tacked-on graphics and story.


Sorry you just can't comprehend Killer 7 and aren't good enough at games in general. BTW I have never played PN 03, I may check it out!
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #137 on: March 12, 2007, 07:06:04 PM »
The one game I still want to play is Okami, that appears to be a game that managed to combine gameplay with artistic style into a complete package. Now that I've finished Zelda I may jump into Okami since the Wii release schedule isn't looking so hot lately. I may try God of War 2 as well.
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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #138 on: March 12, 2007, 07:33:18 PM »
I had a ticket, but the PHAIL train had already left the station. Next stop: Trainwreck in the No More Heroes thread.

Offline Kairon

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #139 on: March 12, 2007, 08:23:21 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
BTW I have never played PN 03, I may check it out!


... MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHA. Please... please do.... MUAHAHAHAHA

Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I may try God of War 2 as well.


Even with gratuitous nekkid nipple shots?

God, this thread DELIVERS.

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #140 on: March 12, 2007, 08:52:07 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
BTW I have never played PN 03, I may check it out!


... MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHA. Please... please do.... MUAHAHAHAHA

Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I may try God of War 2 as well.


Even with gratuitous nekkid nipple shots?

God, this thread DELIVERS.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com


Hey I try out quirky games whenever I can find them, so are hits some are misses for me. I enjoyed God of War even if I thought it was a bit overrated but it definately is one of the better action games out there.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #141 on: March 12, 2007, 09:05:07 PM »
The only complaints I've read about P.N.03 is that it's not Devil May Cry.

Offline Hostile Creation

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RE: No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #142 on: March 12, 2007, 10:02:25 PM »
It's weird that I like Killer 7 so much, because my philosophy on games does dictate that a game, as art, must succeed not on a visual level (which is important, but not the central role of art in games) but in terms of game design and the way it affects the gamer as an interactive medium.  This is why I'm such a huge fan of Nintendo, they easily surpass every other company in this respect.
However, I'm also open to many different styles and approaches, and I think Killer 7 succeeds on a different level than Nintendo games.  This could be turned into a movie, sure, but it wouldn't be the same at all.  There's something about listening for that laughter and trying to find an invisible enemy, about being caught up in this bizarre, postmodern atmosphere and this twisted story, that just works for me.  I think the game is flawed, sure, but I feel it has a proper claim to being an "artistic game", in the true sense of the phrase.
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Offline Dirk Temporo

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RE: No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #143 on: March 13, 2007, 07:38:06 AM »
Wait what? Since when are trailers that are shown of a game that we don't even know how far along in development it is supposed to show the final product? For all we know, they might have just started programming the gameplay a couple weeks ago.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #144 on: March 13, 2007, 09:10:01 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Wait what? Since when are trailers that are shown of a game that we don't even know how far along in development it is supposed to show the final product? For all we know, they might have just started programming the gameplay a couple weeks ago.


I would sure hope they haven't started programming the game a couple weeks ago, because I believe it is to be released in summer. Trailers are meant to be a preview of what the final product will resemble, whether it be movies or games, and usually if a game isn't ready to be shown they leave that footage out. My point was that all we have at the moment with the game in action is the trailer, so I think it is perfectly justified to critique what is shown. Hopefully they smooth things out, but I know various games that turned out to resemble the trailers (Red Steel anyone?).  
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Offline Arbok

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #145 on: March 13, 2007, 09:29:06 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I'm not sure how Pro knows if it is bad video capture or not...


Considering Professional 666's site, I'm inclined to believe he has a lot of experience with video encoding and can probably spot signs of these different, sometimes lackluster, processes when watching digital movies, much in the same way that someone who fools around with Photoshop a lot can spot the same techniques being used in other's work.

Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Hopefully they smooth things out, but I know various games that turned out to resemble the trailers (Red Steel anyone?).


Red Steel looked better in the first trailer shown compared to the final product, which was pretty dissapointing to me... but I don't know why I fell for it considering Ubisoft's track record for messing with screens and other advance looks at games compared with the actual product.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #146 on: March 13, 2007, 09:37:08 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I'm not sure how Pro knows if it is bad video capture or not...


Considering Professional 666's site, I'm inclined to believe he has a lot of experience with video encoding and can probably spot signs of these different, sometimes lackluster, processes when watching digital movies, much in the same way that someone who fools around with Photoshop a lot can spot the same techniques being used in other's work.

Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Hopefully they smooth things out, but I know various games that turned out to resemble the trailers (Red Steel anyone?).


Red Steel looked better in the first trailer shown compared to the final product, which was pretty dissapointing to me... but I don't know why I fell for it considering Ubisoft's track record for messing with screens and other advance looks at games compared with the actual product.


If I recall subsequent trailers were pretty accurate, and this trailer for No More Heroes is the newest. Like I said though my complaints weren't only about framerate, but some of the animations don't look right and some things look off. Hopefully things turn out fine, but I still see no reason why it isn't justified to give impressions on what we are seeing, that is how developers learn what or what not to focus. What bothers me though is from looking at Grasshopper's track record, they seem to be hit and miss, with Killer 7 being their standout title, so I fear they could have bitten more off than they could chew technically with what appears to be a GTA esque enviroment, unless Marvelous Interactive and Spike (I have never even heard of them) is providing them with the budget.  

Let's say the trailer is poorly encoded, shouldn't that in itself be something to fear about the budgeting and quality control? If your main teaser for the game is flawed in itself, I would think that could leave a bad impression in people's minds who may not have been following what is on paper. When you create a game you want to get the word out about it and try to get as many sales as possible, you can't do that with poorly optimized trailers.
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Offline Smoke39

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #147 on: March 13, 2007, 10:08:00 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Let's say the trailer is poorly encoded, shouldn't that in itself be something to fear about the budgeting and quality control?

Because it's totally unreasonable to believe that game sites might compress videos on their own for the sake of conserving bandwidth, right?

I got no problem with you juding the trailer, but to conjecture that its encoding is an indication of a low budget is going a bit too far.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #148 on: March 13, 2007, 10:13:21 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smoke39
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Let's say the trailer is poorly encoded, shouldn't that in itself be something to fear about the budgeting and quality control?

Because it's totally unreasonable to believe that game sites might compress videos on their own for the sake of conserving bandwidth, right?

I got no problem with you juding the trailer, but to conjecture that its encoding is an indication of a low budget is going a bit too far.


I've watched the trailer on various sites, including IGN which usually does a fair job of providing quality trailers. So why does it seem consistent accross the board (at least from what I've seen)? In fact some of the scenes look smooth (Mainly what appears to be cinematic scenes and in door ones), the framerate problem seems to crop up during the wide open areas such as the beach and when you are riding the motorcycle esque thing.
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Offline Arbok

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #149 on: March 13, 2007, 10:18:36 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I've watched the trailer on various sites, including IGN which usually does a fair job of providing quality trailers. Why does it seem consistent accross the board (at least from what I've seen).


Because they are all being given the same source? The bulk of video content on sites is provided by the external firms themselves, so chances are whoever created the trailer file originally didn't do a good job with the encoding process, if the problem is seen across the board.
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