Topic: VC, GC games and the classic controller (and why Nintendo is stupid)

[mantidor]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
It's incredibly hard to rationalize a purchase of the Classic Controller now.  I'm not one to complain about the N64 issues, as I think it will work fine, but really...  If the Classic controller can't be used to play Cube games, so I still have to have my Wavebirds around, and both the Wavebirds and the Wii remote works with the VC games, why exactly do I need the classic controller?

Color me confused.

To play fire emblem I guess? However, Im sure the game will also come with a remote option. Im also sure the number of new games that use exclusively the classic controller (besides the VC old games) won't be big, including the supposedly indie games. So far the indie scene on the wii looks to be as big as online was for GC. Lets hope such thing doesn't happen, but I really don't expect Nintendo to become friendly in that direction, they never had been in the past.



 

[wandering]

Quote
Chances are there are a lot of GameCube games that didn't feel right with the classic controller.

But the classic controller is alot closer to the cube controller than, say, the n64 controller. I can't imagine Ocarina of time 'feeling right' with the classic controller.

[vudu]

What?  I'm not sure which way you're arguing.  That doesn't make sense.

Under no circumstances will you have to play OoT with the classic controller.  If you play OoT on your Zelda Collector's Disc, you have to play with a GameCube controller.  If you download it on the VC (assuming it will available) you can play with either the classic controller or the GameCube controller.

[couchmonkey]

On the classic controller's design...it's not perfect for N64 games, but it is perfect for Super Nintendo and NES games, and I reckon it will also be perfect for Turbografx and Sega Genesis games.  90% of the games on the virtual console will be from the 8-bit or 16-bit generation.  The design makes sense.

I have to second IceCold's post too.  I believe Nintendo put far more thought into Wii than...well, any console in a long time.  If Wii succeeds, Sony and Microsoft's screw-ups may be partly to blame, but Nintendo's decisions will be the main reason.  I mean, Nintendo failed to deliver HD, it failed to deliver (much) better graphics, it failed to deliver a controller that plays all previous games, and it failed to deliver DVD playback: by all traditional accounts, Wii should be an utter disappointment this generation.  But it probably won't be, because Nintendo knew what it was doing when it brought something new to the table instead of those things.

[Pale]

I guess I'm just one of the strange ones that was hoping I wouldn't NEED my WaveBirds for Wii.  I think the Classic Controller would have worked great for Cube games.

Regardless, I just saved some money on Launch day.  I'll probably only pick up two Classic controllers now (instead of 4) for sake of 2 player VC games that require more than 2 buttons and don't use an analog stick.  (I still hate the Cube d-pad)

[The Traveller]

The only problem with not allowing the VC controller to not play GameCube games, is that not everyone bought a GCN. So those people will have to try and find a Cube controller from somewhere if they want to play Cube games. Also the design isnt stupid, theres going to be new games being made for VC that arent linked to a system. Likewise with new Wii games, some may use the classic controller instead of the Wiimote. I also think they would be smart to not use the GC pad for Smash aswell, or at least make it interchangable with the VC pad.

[Mikintosh]

I don't Nintendo doesn't particularly want to continue the Gamecube very far into the Wii's lifetime; Ninty's trying to move on (good idea business-wise, and to market the Wii as a new thing means not making a million concessions to an older, less popular (ostensibly) system, including a redesign of the classic controller to accomodate Gamecube games. The backwards compatability was included pretty much solely to pacify the current Cube owners.

I doubt if we'll see Cube games a year from now; it's not like the NES and Super Nintendo where it was in the company's interest to keep them both alive.

[ShyGuy]

..Is Deguello going to threaten Mantidor now?

[couchmonkey]

Hurr...
On backwards compatability...I don't see where it was worth it to put it in just to pacify GameCube owners...there's only 20 million of us anyway, and...uh..being a GameCube owner....I really don't need it to be backwards compatable.  What I'm trying to say is, it's too bad the Wii controller doesn't work with Cube games.  Too bad, but not the end of the world (or even a very big deal).

[Ian Sane]

"You can argue all you want that Nintendo should have given us the choice and I may even agree with you in the end, but it really doesn't matter. Spielberg can remove guns from E.T., Lucas can insert Jabba the Hut in Star Wars, and Nintendo can force us to use GameCube controllers to play GameCube games."

Oh okay then.  They have every right to do whatever they want so I guess none of us should have an opinion on it one way or another.

The fact that the classic controller doesn't work perfectly with the Cube doesn't matter becaues the classic controller isn't ideal for playing N64 games either.  Why is one compromise so unacceptable that they have to force us to use a different controller and the other isn't?  I figure this is either a brain fart, an attempt to sell more controllers, or a shortcut.

I do think including instruction manuals is really cool though.  I wonder if we can retreive the file it's on in some way and upload them on the internet.  Then we can have a site to look up the instructions to old games.  I know virtually every used cartridge game I've bought didn't have instructions.

[Ian Sane]

"vudu tackled the first part of your post, so I guess I'll take this. Wow, Ian.. honestly, I tolerate most of the other stuff you say because you back it up well and it's usually rational, but this is going too far. Give Nintendo SOME credit. Do you really believe that if the Wii succeeds it will only be because of Sony's troubles?"

I'm saying this doesn't matter as much as stuff like this did on the Cube because Sony is screwing up more so Nintendo doesn't look inferior.  On the Cube Sony was doing right the things Nintendo did wrong.  Here a minor but annoying goof like this isn't as much as a problem because when you look at the competition you see a lot of problems too.  The Xbox 360 also has even worse backwards compatibility so this isn't going to have as big of an impact.

[vudu]

Here's an (unoriginal) idea ... why doesn't Nintendo release retro controllers for all their systems so you can play VC games on the controller the game was originally meant to be played on?  (BTW, this seems likely to happen if VC gets popular.)  If they do that are you going to complain that Nintendo is trying to get us to buy multiple controllers to play games we already played ten years ago?

[MaryJane]

Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
Here's an (unoriginal) idea ... why doesn't Nintendo release retro controllers for all their systems so you can play VC games on the controller the game was originally meant to be played on?  (BTW, this seems likely to happen if VC gets popular.)  If they do that are you going to complain that Nintendo is trying to get us to buy multiple controllers to play games we already played ten years ago?

Only if they have cool individual stickers on them! Then it would be worth it.

hmmm, 64 games that use the analog stick didn't use the L button too heavily, but GC did because of the better placement of the stick. I wonder if that may have factored into the decision?  

[MarioAllStar]

I think that there are probably technical reasons for this being the case (as mentioned before). Realize that the classic controller plugs in to the remote. In order to have the classic controller work with GameCube games, there would need to be some sort of wrapper around the games that allowed communication with the Wii remote so that the GameCube controller could be emulated.

Unless the GameCube's operating system was running at all times and the games accessed controllers through the OS rather than interfacing with the hardware directly. In that case, the functionality could probably just be added to the OS.

The point is, if this were terribly easy to implement, then Nintendo probably would have. After all, I'm sure there are people who would have bought a classic controller just to get a more standard button layout than the traditional GCcontroller (everyone says the GC controller is not well suited to fighting games).

[Mario]

Great news that I wont have to buy a VC controller.

[segagamer12]

Ok it seams to me that every one is forgetting a compeltely obvious issue here, the fact being that Nintendo isnt going to STOP MAKING GC controllers once the Wii comesout. Seriously it does make sense that GC games use a GC controller because they still sell them in stores and WILL CONTINUE to sell them for as long as they sell GC games.



Holy Friggin Crap I can't beleive all the fuss over something so trivial.  Game Cube games will work perfectly fine with GC controllers because, they were desinged to!!!


The VC 'Classic' controller will work perfectly for NES, SNES, TG16, Genesis and N64 games so what is the big deal?

I mean seriously stop and think about it you dont really think that people who dont have GC controllers now wont be able to get them any where Wii controllers are sold?

[31 Flavas]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane

Requiring Cube controllers for Cube games just seems incredibly sloppy and it effectively kills the feature since only people who already have a Cube will have Cube controllers. [Yadda yadda, conspiricy stuff, OMG 4 CONTROLLERS needed, ...]

Uhm.. why would you nessarily have to buy "new" controllers. Gamecube controllers are probably $5 dollars used at EB/GS/GC/eBay/etc....

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: MarioAllStar
I think that there are probably technical reasons for this being the case (as mentioned before). Realize that the classic controller plugs in to the remote. In order to have the classic controller work with GameCube games, there would need to be some sort of wrapper around the games that allowed communication with the Wii remote so that the GameCube controller could be emulated.

Unless the GameCube's operating system was running at all times and the games accessed controllers through the OS rather than interfacing with the hardware directly. In that case, the functionality could probably just be added to the OS.

The point is, if this were terribly easy to implement, then Nintendo probably would have. After all, I'm sure there are people who would have bought a classic controller just to get a more standard button layout than the traditional GCcontroller (everyone says the GC controller is not well suited to fighting games).

Hey I was going to suggest the same thing, but let me put this technical issue into perspective. Has there been a console yet with such vastly different controller (both in design and the hardware inside) that has been used for backwards compatibility? The answer is not that I'm aware of, the PS2's was basically the PS1 dual shock, the PS3 is basically the dual shock with accelometers, and the 360 one may be the only exception EXCEPT the games are emulated which is why there is not 100% compatibility.

When you put that into perspective and considering the Wiimote is NOT at all similar to the GC one in design and how it functions (I doubt they have many of the same parts) there could be huge compatibility issues with making GC games use it. If anyone has anything further to add to that, feel free, but that is a potential scenario as to why there is no Wiimote compatibility with GC games. Anyway I would think you guys should be tickled to death that it appears the Wii is 100% compatible with all GC games, something neither 360 nor the PS2 or 3 can brag about.

[Pale]

I don't think anyone is asking for Wiimote compatibility with GC games.  What most of us were hoping for was Wii Classic Controller compatibility with GC games.  It isn't a big deal, just strange that they didn't work it out.  All the buttons are there.

[MarioAllStar]

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting that the Wiimote should be used for control, but I am saying that if any game (Wii or GameCube) wants to use the classic controller it does have to be able to interface with the remote.

Speaking of which, can NES games be played with a sideways Wiimote? Or are all Virtual Console games only playable with the classic controller?

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
I don't think anyone is asking for Wiimote compatibility with GC games.  What most of us were hoping for was Wii Classic Controller compatibility with GC games.  It isn't a big deal, just strange that they didn't work it out.  All the buttons are there.

Yes I understand but the VC Classic COntroller is still using the Wiimote technology and thus may still be completely different from what was used in the GC controllers.  I just have a hunch (that I hope some of the more technical minded people may be able to answer) that it was quite hard to implement the Classic Controller controls into GC games for technological incompatibility reasons.

[Mario]

Well just imagine trying to get your normal GameCube to register a controller that isn't plugged into it. The GC hardware in the Wii will have no way whatsoever to access things it couldn't before, they'd have to change the hardware to do that and that could cause far worse problems.

[Kairon]

I, for one, will buy about 3 more new GC controllers with this news. That'll bring me up to five: 1 for my brother... and 4 for me!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[UncleBob]

Wow.

So if I want to play:

NES Games - I can use the Standard Wii Controller, Game Cube Controller or Classic Controller.
SNES Games - Game Cube Controller or Classic Controller.
SEGA Genesis Games - Game Cube Controller or Classic Controller.
TG-16 Games - Game Cube Controller or Classic Controller.
N64 Games - Game Cube Controller or Classic Controller.
GameCube Games - Game Cube Controller, Bongos, GBA Connectivity or Action Pad.
Original Content VC Games - Standard Wii Controller, Game Cube Controller, Classic Controller, Bongos, Action Pad, GBA Connectivity, DS Connectivity, Nunchuck, Steering Wheel Cover...
Wii Games - Standard Wii Controller, Game Cube Controller, Classic Controller, Bongos, Action Pad, GBA Connectivity, DS Connectivity, Nunchuck, Steering Wheel Cover...

Wow.  I'm all for strange configuations of hardware and hooking stuff all up weird, but... geesh...

[MarioAllStar]

I doubt that (m)any Wii games or original Virtual Console content will be designed for any GameCube-compatible controllers (Bongos, GBA-link, etc.).