Author Topic: EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda  (Read 25483 times)

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Offline Svevan

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EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« on: August 28, 2006, 09:30:00 AM »
An open letter to Nintendo.


 Dear Nintendo:    


There is a high level of frustration among Zelda fans right now, which is itself a feat that you should note. We are, after all, a very resilient bunch. We have put up with Twilight Princess' repeated delays and stylistic changes while patiently ignoring the dearth of official details and the game's recent lackluster E3 appearance. At times, it seems like you are throwing roadblocks in the way of us devoted Zelda players, and the latest and most bitter of these was the announcement that both a GameCube and Wii version of Twilight Princess would be released simultaneously. Now, I understand that you have tremendous faith in Wii and want Zelda to prove the new console's worth; at the same time you have clung to the release of a GameCube version as a sign of goodwill to those who purchased the system for Zelda alone. This is, I suppose, fine by me. Really, for the Nintendo faithful it should be a no-brainer: buy a Wii, get Zelda. From our mentality, the Wii version of Zelda is preferred since Wii is your new system and we're getting it anyway. Unfortunately, the problem facing Zelda fans now is that you have decided not to implement GameCube controls for Twilight Princess on Wii, confusing gamers as to which version truly is the next Zelda game.    


I prefer things to be definitive. When I purchase something, I do not want to be forced to purchase an addition for it to be complete, or have to upgrade in the future. You as a company, Nintendo, have avoided the Deluxe-Redux-Substance path and your customers are happier for it. When I purchased The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker I was confident, based on your track record, that there was not going to be a Special Edition waiting eight months down the road, which is something that I as a movie collector wish I could know every time I bought a DVD. The movie market is even more vicious than the game industry when it comes to “double-dipping." Very soon I may have to buy yet another DVD of Dracula, something I'm getting tired of doing. But there is something that's even worse for a movie collector than double-dipping: sometimes there are two versions of the same movie released on DVD around the same time but with different special features. This is a rare occurrence and usually only happens when more than one company has the rights to release a movie on DVD – it is almost never the fault of a malicious studio. Please hear me: I would never call you malicious, Nintendo. But as improper as this decision would be in the movie world, it does feel as though you have made this decision with Zelda on Wii.    


So far the only credible excuse thrown around for the lack of GameCube control on the Wii version of Zelda is that the Wii hardware simply doesn't allow it. The rumor is that when a GameCube disc is in the system the GameCube controller ports work, but when a Wii disc is inside the system the GameCube ports turn off. This theory, I assume propagated by fanboys, has been debunked by your very own official magazine, as reported by the blog Nintendo Wii Fanboy in a news post about future Wii title Rampage: Total Destruction. According to the Fanboy, Nintendo Power has stated that Rampage will allow the player to choose between Wii control and GameCube control. This is all without mentioning that Masahiro Sakurai, your Smash Bros. main man, advised us at E3 not to throw away our GameCube controllers when we get Super Smash Bros. Brawl on Wii. With both of these details considered, it seems to me that you don't have any excuses left: you have gone out of your way to emphasize that the two versions of Twilight Princess are identical in gameplay and you are confident enough in the two control schemes that you are releasing the game with both on the same day. If the statement in Nintendo Power is to be trusted, then there are no technical limitations preventing GameCube control that the consumer could fathom. If you're leaving it out due to limited space on the DVD or some complex programming issue, I kindly ask that you say so. Otherwise, we will have to assume that you are leaving GameCube control out deliberately, a choice that is still confusing to all of us.    


If Twilight Princess on Wii had GameCube controls it would definitely be considered the preferred version, not to mention sell more. The only people who would buy the GameCube version would be those reticent to purchase a Wii at all. You have made the GameCube version enticing, though, by telling us that it is still the full Zelda experience while retaining that classic mode of control that you innovated way back for Ocarina of Time. This control method is often imitated - it has been the de facto standard for 3-D adventure games ever since Ocarina was released. Some Zelda gamers are wary of the Wii control scheme based on E3 reports and forcing them to choose between the two does not relieve their tensions. One method must be better than the other, but with two versions of the game available how do we decide? By leaving GameCube control out of Twilight Princess you are shifting sales from the Wii version to the GameCube version, perhaps with the hope that some will “double-dip" and purchase both. Of course I believe it is foolish to purchase both since past Zelda games have offered incentive to play the game twice, and as far as we know there is not a way to transfer your saved game from the Wii to the GameCube version. Despite this, I must admit that as a completist I feel compelled to purchase both versions as well, but in the end I will only purchase one at full price on ethical grounds alone.    


If you really want to play hardball Nintendo, then go ahead. It is obvious you have faith in the Wii version so much that you don't want players to even have the option to play Zelda the old fashioned way. You want Zelda on Wii to be definitive, as I do. I think it is ironic, though, that in your efforts to prove the Wii version definitive you may be driving people away from it, thinning sales for one of your flagship Wii launch titles. By exalting one control method over another but making both available separately, you ensure that there will not be a definitive version of Twilight Princess at all; we will have two separate and distinct Zelda games that each have their own allure. I myself am torn and disappointed that I have to make this choice.    


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Evan Burchfield  
 

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Offline PopeReal

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RE:EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2006, 02:40:27 PM »
I think the Wii version is the definitive Zelda.  If there is one thing we can count on, is that Nintendo will not release a new Zelda with crappy Wii controls.  This will be a major showcase for the system, and they know they have to get this right.  If they don't, it is a very bad sign and the Wii will be in a lot of trouble.  After all, if the big N can't get it right, then no one will.  I have faith that everything will be fine.
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Offline Infernal Monkey

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RE: EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2006, 03:05:40 PM »
The GameCube version. So far we've heard nothing about the graphics being updated for Wii (aside from widescreen), and the Wii exclusive 'puzzles' will more than likely be out of place tacked on junk like WHACK A MOLE.  

Offline PopeReal

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RE:EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2006, 03:15:17 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
The GameCube version. So far we've heard nothing about the graphics being updated for Wii (aside from widescreen), and the Wii exclusive 'puzzles' will more than likely be out of place tacked on junk like WHACK A MOLE.


Do you really think Nintendo will put "tacked on junk" in a brand new Zelda which also happens to be launching with a new system?  If they do it will spell more than disaster for the Wii version of Twilight Princess, it spells disaster for the Wii.
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Offline Mario

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RE: EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2006, 03:20:27 PM »
Quote

Do you really think Nintendo will put "tacked on junk" in a brand new Zelda which also happens to be launching with a new system?

Well they've already put those Wii controls in, so yes...

Great editorial! I feel the same way and could end up passing on both versions.

Offline PopeReal

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RE:EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2006, 03:25:33 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Mario
Quote

Do you really think Nintendo will put "tacked on junk" in a brand new Zelda which also happens to be launching with a new system?

Well they've already put those Wii controls in, so yes...

Great editorial! I feel the same way and could end up passing on both versions.


If the Wii controls turn out to be tacked on junk, we should all pass on the Wii, just not Zelda.  Afterall, the Wii controls are what set this system  apart from others.

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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2006, 03:39:46 PM »
Dear Evan,

I hope you've never owned a Gameboy. Every time I get the definitive one, a new and improved model comes out.

"torn and dissapointed" lol emo

Offline Kairon

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RE:EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2006, 03:41:32 PM »
Ahh, the perils of choice.

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Offline Pale

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RE: EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2006, 03:48:18 PM »
Too true Kairon, too true. >.>
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Offline UncleBob

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RE: EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2006, 04:17:10 PM »
You know what gets me?  People complain about Zelda being multi-platform and yet no one complains that Madden, Sonic, Call of Duty or whatever other game is multi-platform.  Sure, the Wii version of TP is going to offer things that the GCN version doesn't, but hey, Madden 07 for XBox 360 feautres online play and the GCN version doesn't.

I mean, Nintendo's kind of in a dammed if they do, dammed if they don't kinda situation.  They could have scrapped the GCN version all together or never have made the Wii version to begin with, but either way, one of the two groups gets screwed (those who want Wii controls and those who don't)... and that's just not fair to them.

So, then, you get to the subject to this editorial - should Nintendo offer a version that has both GCN and Wii controls in it for one low price?  Well, aside from the fact that Nintendo probably will offer some kind of Collector's Edition to start out with, why should they?  Does EA offer a Collector's Edition of Madden with GCN, DS, GBA, PS2, PSP, XBox and XBox 360 versions all in one?

And don't give me that crap about Nintendo being above that... For a company that's pulled crap like Pokémon Blue and Pokémon Red, I think we all know better.

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Offline Pale

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RE: EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2006, 04:44:44 PM »
My problem with everyone's argument is the assumption that because Nintendo isn't telling them every little detail about the reason for the decision, that means they are doing it just to money grub.  Buying both versions is just silly.  There are plenty of other possibilties for the decision.

Also.  The Wii controls are better anyway so who really cares?
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Offline BigJim

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RE:EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2006, 05:30:30 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Pale

Also.  The Wii controls are better anyway so who really cares?


Zuhhh, wow it's almost like staff trolling.

1. How many people played the newly re-tooled/refined Wii version, and
2. How many people played the GameCube version?

What we have in the classic controller format is spectacular, IMO. It's highly questionable to draw any conclusion from outdated Wii controls and zero experience with the GCN version. Though we at least have some idea how the GCN version will work.

Anyway, when I first started reading the letter, it sounded like "Nintendo owes us something." (They owe us nothing.) Then it seeks a definitive choice... There is no bait-and-switch or upsell (except to Wii). We know the differences are minor. We can make a somewhat educated choice right now.

But making them separate SKUs was a dumb idea, especially since they're virtually the same game with Miyamoto deciding to speak for everybody that Zelda fans don't look for graphic improvements. How true. People don't EXPECT next-gen graphics from next-gen systems. Only a moron would have that expectation. (yes that's sarcasm)  
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2006, 05:31:10 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Pale
My problem with everyone's argument is the assumption that because Nintendo isn't telling them every little detail about the reason for the decision, that means they are doing it just to money grub.  Buying both versions is just silly.  There are plenty of other possibilties for the decision.

Also.  The Wii controls are better anyway so who really cares?


Yeah for Pale, this whole "open letter" seems to be yet another example of people whining without seeing the final product. So you have to choose which version of Zelda you want, so what? Like another poster said that happens all the time, you just have to decide what has the most pros versus cons when deciding which version. Also to those that are saying they may not buy Zelda, that is probaly the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Chances are quite high that the game will be amazing for BOTH Wii and GameCube, it has even been in development for a long time even longer than OOT. Throwing hissy fits because you have to choose which version you want to get is childish, get over it and enjoy what may be the best Zelda ever.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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RE: EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2006, 05:49:22 PM »
Just what we needed, even more whining and bitching about Twilight Princess on Wii...

I agree with Unclebob. This is basically a lose/lose move in which fans will bitch at Nintendo no matter what they end up doing. If they completely scrapped the GC version in order to create a Wii version, fans will bitch because they didn't get to play TP as it was originally was. If they release both the Wii version and the GC version, fans will bitch about buying both versions, And I'm pretty sure that if they released the Wii version with optional GC controls they will bitch about how the Wii were tacked on at the last minute.

Honestly, you guys are making mountains out of molehills. Like many of us have stated, Nintendo isn't that dumb that they would screw what could be the most anticipated Zelda game since Ocarina of time. They KNOW that fans are eagerly awaiting for this game as Wind waker was not able to please gamers the same way Ocarina of time and Majora's mask did, so they are going all out with Twilight Princess.

Just let it go. Wait for the game to be released, pick up whicever version you want, play ALL THE WAY THROUGH then come to a conclusion about the game. I think you'll sleep better that way .
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Offline mantidor

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RE: EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2006, 07:23:11 PM »
this is not a lose/lose situation, if Nintendo had decided not to do this wii version I asure you that at worst, some fanboy would speculate how TP with remote might work and thats it, NO ONE would be mad or whiny, at all, maybe slightly dissapointment in rare cases.

Personally I dont give a crap about the wii version so I don't care about the lack of GC controls for it, I have to be thankful that at least they didn't scrap completly the GC original. And yes, even if that version had GC controls I would still buy the other one, and yes, Im very interested in the new console, believe it or not, I have high hopes for Corruption, and Galaxy looks to be awesome, as well as many third party games, something that was really surprising. But this decision about Zelda is the worst possible idea ever in my eyes.

As to why they remove GC controls from the wii version is obvious the possibility of many people buying both was important, its naive to think is not, and as silly as many of you believe it is to buy both, theres plenty of fans that will do it. Some may think that both versions ended up being radically different and can't be played with the other controls, but Nintendo also said that both were identical, so its not a sure thing. Its still a posibility, is not the first time Nintendo outright lied about this game anyway.

 
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Offline Nephilim

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RE:EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2006, 07:31:16 PM »
makes me wonder if n64 players were upset OOT didnt use the same controls as the nes games  

Offline Pryopizm

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RE: EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2006, 07:59:55 PM »
When a person ignores that the kernel of the complaint is Nintendo double-dipping without providing a single definitive experience, and, instead, build a straw man argument, it's very easy to make someone appear foolish.  Of course, anyone who has bothered to read the article (agree or disagree) will see through it immediately and find out quickly who the foolish one is.
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Offline Sarail

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RE: EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2006, 08:08:49 PM »
Geez, Evan...

You sure have been whining a LOT as of late.  Starting to get old, man.  Yes, indeed.
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Offline Athrun Zala

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RE: EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2006, 09:18:29 PM »
I don't really see a problem with this

First, if the game had remained thus far a GC only game, it would've been moved to Wii anyways....you know why? because they wanted to make TP even BETTER than OoT, which has been clasified as the BEST GAME EVER by basically every person that walks the Earth, and that CAN'T be done in just 2 years (original release date). So the game would've been delayed (it's Nintendo we are talking about....) which in the end would've been unfavorable to Nintendo as the GC is pretty much dead, and the only pleased ones would've been the hardcore fans.
Second, they tried to please everyone by not cancelling the GC one (to keep their promise and such) and releasing a modified version for the Wii to boost sales, get more revenue and a better launch lineup.
Thirdly, Nintendo would be heavily criticized/flamed/whatever if they cancelled one of the 2 SKUs now, and they have to at least have one incentive for the GC version (classic controller and not needing a new console).
And finally, Nintendo is running a BUSINESS here, they WILL TRY to get more profits when they can.....that's just how business works and that can't be changed for now.

Another thing is that I personally believe that they went for 2 SKU in the first place because the GC and Wii data couldn't fit on the same discs (remember that the puzzles and such have to be changed to fit the the new controller)

All in all, I'll get the Wii version, it's just a simple choice you have to make....it's not like your life will be a living hell because of it....
and remember that you DON'T HAVE to BUY BOTH versions, just find a friend who gets the other one, it's not that hard
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2006, 09:40:35 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Athrun Zala
I don't really see a problem with this

First, if the game had remained thus far a GC only game, it would've been moved to Wii anyways....you know why? because they wanted to make TP even BETTER than OoT, which has been clasified as the BEST GAME EVER by basically every person that walks the Earth, and that CAN'T be done in just 2 years (original release date). So the game would've been delayed (it's Nintendo we are talking about....) which in the end would've been unfavorable to Nintendo as the GC is pretty much dead, and the only pleased ones would've been the hardcore fans.
Second, they tried to please everyone by not cancelling the GC one (to keep their promise and such) and releasing a modified version for the Wii to boost sales, get more revenue and a better launch lineup.
Thirdly, Nintendo would be heavily criticized/flamed/whatever if they cancelled one of the 2 SKUs now, and they have to at least have one incentive for the GC version (classic controller and not needing a new console).
And finally, Nintendo is running a BUSINESS here, they WILL TRY to get more profits when they can.....that's just how business works and that can't be changed for now.

Another thing is that I personally believe that they went for 2 SKU in the first place because the GC and Wii data couldn't fit on the same discs (remember that the puzzles and such have to be changed to fit the the new controller)

All in all, I'll get the Wii version, it's just a simple choice you have to make....it's not like your life will be a living hell because of it....
and remember that you DON'T HAVE to BUY BOTH versions, just find a friend who gets the other one, it's not that hard



Exactly, I think this descision falls under two things. Profit and trying to push a new control scheme. I think they want to force Wii gamers to use the new control scheme to prove a point, but if they want traditional they can get the GC version. It isn't really that confusing, if you are still concerned which version to get well wait for some hands on reviews on the final builds. Both games are the supposedly the same despite the different controls so I guess you are right there is not a "difinative" version but if they are both amazing games does it really matter that much it is what you prefer control wise.
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Offline Mario

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RE:EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2006, 09:45:54 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: DeadlyD
makes me wonder if n64 players were upset OOT didnt use the same controls as the nes games

Makes me wonder how on earth OoT would be possible on SNES

Offline wandering

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RE: EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2006, 09:59:29 PM »
I am also worried that there will be no definitive Zelda - but for a different reason. Oh, I'd like both control schemes included in the Wii version, don't get me wrong (and if Evan's or other's complaints helped bring that about, that'd be swell.) But what I worry about is that neither the Wii nor the GameCube version will be ideal. And, if that turns out to be the case, giving me an option between the two versions when I boot up my Zelda Wii disc wouldn't make much of a difference.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2006, 10:52:28 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: wandering
I am also worried that there will be no definitive Zelda - but for a different reason. Oh, I'd like both control schemes included in the Wii version, don't get me wrong (and if Evan's or other's complaints helped bring that about, that'd be swell.) But what I worry about is that neither the Wii nor the GameCube version will be ideal. And, if that turns out to be the case, giving me an option between the two versions when I boot up my Zelda Wii disc wouldn't make much of a difference.


I think that both versions will be great! Like I said the game was in development for about as long as Zelda OOT before the Wii version was even considered. That along with it being based on the Wind Waker engine, I just don't see any of these worries of it lacking being credible! They've had about an additional year to polish things up and add Wii control, so all I can say is I can't wait
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Offline The Traveller

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RE: EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2006, 11:16:35 PM »
I think that since they have changed the controls since E3 it will work much better. Using the sword with the wiimote wont get tiring, I see it working only on the vertical and horizontal slashes. So you could easily dip it up and down and move it left and right slightly.

Anyway thats not the point. Why hasnt anyone brought up the possibility of using the Wii's "Normal" controller?  

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RE: EDITORIALS: There is No Definitive Zelda
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2006, 11:33:16 PM »
As far as I am concerned, this is a tired, tired argument. I hope it falls asleep from exhaustion soon.. When Wii controls were first rumoured (a hell of a long time ago), I wrote long-winded posts about how I was against them being implemented, as I was worried about the negative effects stemming from the decision. When they were finally confirmed, I was disappointed, but I have gotten over it since. There's nothing we can do, and I'm sick of all the discussion about it. Sure, this won't be the true Zelda built exclusively with the Wii in mind, utilising the controls and the hardware to their fullest extent. But it will still be a damn good game, and the controls will be fine. There were mixed impressions from E3; some glowing, some biting. I have decided to not let any one of them influence me.. Playing a game with a whole new control method, especially one which is so familiar on other controls, can't be easy. This is even truer at E3, where there is so much pressure, and the environment is far from comfortable. I remember when I first used the N64 analogue stick, I hated it. I just couldn't control it well, after years of playing with a D-Pad. This is a similar situation, except even more accentuated.

I am going to wait until the final build of TP gets into the hands of the media. When people actually have time to adapt to the controls under suitable conditions, we'll see what the impressions are then. At this point of time, I would take Miyamoto's word over any single person's experience with the game at E3. I've said this before; if there's anyone who can pull this off, Nintendo can.
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