Author Topic: Wii Launch Titles  (Read 44730 times)

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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #75 on: August 08, 2006, 07:02:13 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ArbokThe game does have tiers though, no one can say otherwise, but you keep blowing them way out of proportion to try and prove your point.


My point is that there are tiers and having tiers (especially when they're based completely around speed) is a shame because then you no longer can simply play the game in duels without considering the abilities of the character in the equation. IMHO, personal skill should be the ONLY aspect of a fight that matters. I shouldn't have to say, "I won, but I used _____."

Quote

I'm interested though, since you seem so bent out of shape about the balance in Melee: if Brawl was released with the same degree of tiers found in the previous two games, do you think you'd dislike it?


If they were more like the tiers in the first game (not based on speed) it'd be tolerable. It's when you can't even hope to get a hit in that the characters become truly broken.

I don't think balance in a fighting game is too much to ask. The whole point of SSB is to provide a fighting game with a fun backdrop of "Could character X beat character Y?". That whole novelty vanishes if you know who can beat who right off the bat.

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melee fans will just have to accept that brawl will be a new game
its not like KOF were orochi iroi will always have high priority moves and super powered attacks and juggles
people like fox were not designed to play as they do now, meaning they will be totally different which a few moves remaining
people seem to think that HAL will look at online vids and go "wow there awsome" lets build our game around that, instead its proberly more like nintendos view on powersliding in mario kart DS


That would be all I truly want from Brawl.

As for online, I know it was mentioned that they were looking into some way to bring Wiiconnect24 into TP, at the least.
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Offline Strell

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RE:Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #76 on: August 08, 2006, 07:06:59 AM »
Hey idiots.

SSBM rocks.

If you don't like it, you need to stop gaming.

Seriously.

I must find a way to use "burninate" more in my daily speech.

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Offline Ceric

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RE: Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #77 on: August 08, 2006, 07:17:41 AM »
You know I think you guys are taking this way to far.  Personally all of the top-tier characters according to you guys I and my friends have a very hard time playing.  Fox I kill myself more often then not.  Yes, once you get to the point where your in a tournament setting and theirs been a lot of time for people to hone there skills like with Melee characters will bubble to the surface that are better then others.  The only way you are going to avoid that is if every character played the same.  Who wants to play a game of clones?  If you raced you hands you can moan about SSBM and every other fighter.  It's not like there was 1 cheap move that you just did over and over that would win you a match.

Anybody play Marvel Vs. Capcom 2?  Ever play Roll?  She seemed to take more damage, had a steep learning curve, and was a small character to boot.  I've heard stories of people wiping the floors with everyone with her.  Is she broken?  No it took hours upon hours of dedication to get that good with her. /rant

Now SSBB will not be launch.  As of know I do not know of any online confirmed games but at Leipzig I'm sure at least one will have the ability.  Anybody seen a picture of the invite to the Pre-Conference Nintendo get together?  
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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RE:Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #78 on: August 08, 2006, 07:24:56 AM »
Somehow you guys have managed to De-Rail yet another thread and this time with talk of SSBB, can you take it to its appropriate thread?

Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
Ok I have the list of confirmed online games....

*
*
*
*
*

Oh wait there's nothing on it.
Also last I heard developers are either just getting the WiiConnect24 stuff or haven't gotten it yet.


I'm sure most developers are bound by NDA's and can't say nothing about online versions of anything.
Ubisoft was quoted saying something to the effect of "We talk more about online once Nintendo has released more information about it." and I'm sure other developers have said something similar too.

Offline Arbok

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RE:Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #79 on: August 08, 2006, 07:56:22 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: DeadlyD
melee fans will just have to accept that brawl will be a new game


I don't doubt it, much in the same way that the overall play style was changed from the first to second. I don't think anyone is openly resisting changes that the team might bring to the game either in any of these posts.

Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
My point is that there are tiers and having tiers (especially when they're based completely around speed) is a shame because then you no longer can simply play the game in duels without considering the abilities of the character in the equation. IMHO, personal skill should be the ONLY aspect of a fight that matters. I shouldn't have to say, "I won, but I used _____."


For the love of god, it's not that bad. You are acting like this is Pokémon with the legendaries or Oddjob in Goldeneye. No one is that bent in Melee that you might as well give up before you even start. Every fighter has tiers, you will have to accept that. There are some issues with Melee of course that need improvement, but it doesn't cripple the game in any respect or cause for characters that should currently be banned from multiplayer use.

Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
If they were more like the tiers in the first game (not based on speed) it'd be tolerable. It's when you can't even hope to get a hit in that the characters become truly broken.


You sound like someone who lost against an opponent playing Fox in Melee and rather than blame it on your own skills you simply said: "this is broken, this sucks, I'm not playing if you are going to be this cheap!"

Play the first game again. The tiers are even worse there, as Captain Falcon is far and away the most powerful character, while it's hard to stop a good Fox player (back before they changed him to fall faster and decrease his defense to make him more balanced... yet still top tier as you note).

Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I don't think balance in a fighting game is too much to ask. The whole point of SSB is to provide a fighting game with a fun backdrop of "Could character X beat character Y?". That whole novelty vanishes if you know who can beat who right off the bat.


No game is completely balanced, unless you have a fighter where everything is the same character. A game like Smash Bros is going to never be perfectly balanced either because you have: small stages, huge stages, items, 2-4 players and obstacles. It will create a situation where you can have a balanced character in one style of play (DK in a 4 player item match), that just won't match up perfectly in another (DK 1vs1).

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Originally posted by: Strell
Hey idiots.

SSBM rocks.


SSBM is my favorite game of all time no doubt, but I don't think personal insults are needed to prove that.

Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
You know I think you guys are taking this way to far.  Personally all of the top-tier characters according to you guys I and my friends have a very hard time playing.  Fox I kill myself more often then not.  Yes, once you get to the point where your in a tournament setting and theirs been a lot of time for people to hone there skills like with Melee characters will bubble to the surface that are better then others.  The only way you are going to avoid that is if every character played the same.  Who wants to play a game of clones?  If you raced you hands you can moan about SSBM and every other fighter.  It's not like there was 1 cheap move that you just did over and over that would win you a match.


How did I get lumped in with what "Smash_Brother" was saying... ;_;

I completely agree with your point here, and it's the very same one I was trying to make that the tiers don't ruin Melee as "Smash_Brother" keeps claiming, and if Brawl had similar ones it would still be a contender for one of the greats of this generation, no doubt.  
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #80 on: August 08, 2006, 07:57:45 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1 "We talk more about online once Nintendo has released more information about it." and I'm sure other developers have said something similar too.


Actually, I thought I remembered it sounding less optimistic, like "We haven't gotten the information from Nintendo yet."

However, in the recent NP, Ancel definitely hinted that he had some excellent ideas for Rayman 4 and WiiConnect24 so I ASSUME this means that R4 and other launch games can and will have online components.

Frankly, I'll be more than a bit disappointed if Nintendo doesn't present some form of decent online showing with the Wii launch.

Red Steel without online could be AAA, but with online sword fighting as a part of the game, it reaches "killer app" status, one that you don't even need to be a Nintendo fan to enjoy.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #81 on: August 08, 2006, 08:49:57 AM »
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Originally posted by: Arbok For the love of god, it's not that bad. You are acting like this is Pokémon with the legendaries or Oddjob in Goldeneye. No one is that bent in Melee that you might as well give up before you even start. Every fighter has tiers, you will have to accept that. There are some issues with Melee of course that need improvement, but it doesn't cripple the game in any respect or cause for characters that should currently be banned from multiplayer use.


Let me put forth the best anecdote I can: I had a friend from Montreal visit me recently. He works at Gameloft for QA and plays SSBM most every day with a host of coworkers. He is easily the best SSBM player I've ever faced. His Dr. Mario is probably his best, but he's likewise insanely good with Falcon and knows each and every character to the core, even pulling out some tricks which I was never aware of.

I lose horribly to his Dr. Mario with Link, Bowser and Ness (three of my best characters), but Fox, who I don't even PRACTICE with, I can beat him with most every time.

I see that as a problem because it isn't my skill which is bringing me to victory, it's Fox's speed.

And for the record, I've chosen the name "Smash_Brother" because I slept, breathed and ate the original game, logging over 700 hours play time on the cart (before it was stolen). Do I enjoy Melee? Of course, but one of the reasons SSB was so great was that it didn't require finely honed reflexes to play and as such could be played by most anyone and after learning a character, they had a fair chance.

Melee is all about reflex and I've never liked that. I still enjoy the game, of course, but I'm immensely glad to hear that Brawl will have its speed adjusted because I always thought Melee would be a better game if it ran at 75% of the current speed.

I've had a great deal of fun with Melee, but at the same time, I do dislike the advantage that the tiers provide (and whether you'll admit it or not, they do make a great deal of difference in the right hands). My hope is that when tiers are discovered in Brawl, they don't make as much of a difference as they do in Melee.

I UNDERSTAND that you don't see it that way and that's FINE: I respect that opinion and maybe you haven't had similar experiences regarding tiers so we don't see eye to eye, but that's what I think and I hope Brawl fixes it.

Now, can we just agree to disagree and let this thread get back on topic?

It's a little old, but I found this article...

Fils-Aime mentioned why he thinks Wii could achieve a greater install base than its predecessor console, GameCube. "Our focus is on a substantially higher base than we achieved with GameCube. We think that our strategy in terms of great core gamer games, expanded audience games should allow us to achieve that," the NOA president said. "Plus, with the stellar third-party support we're getting, really, right at launch, that's another major difference from what we did with GameCube."

It's good to see Nintendo themselves acknowledge 3rd parties and their launch offerings. Not too long ago, Nintendo was of the mindset that 3rd parties were parasites feeding off of their success. I'm immensely glad to see that they've reversed that sentiment. I think Iwata is a diplomat and, like Reggie says, it's showing in the launch lineup.
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Offline Arbok

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RE:Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #82 on: August 08, 2006, 11:05:45 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Let me put forth the best anecdote I can: I had a friend from Montreal visit me recently. He works at Gameloft for QA and plays SSBM most every day with a host of coworkers. He is easily the best SSBM player I've ever faced. His Dr. Mario is probably his best, but he's likewise insanely good with Falcon and knows each and every character to the core, even pulling out some tricks which I was never aware of.

I lose horribly to his Dr. Mario with Link, Bowser and Ness (three of my best characters), but Fox, who I don't even PRACTICE with, I can beat him with most every time.


At this stage in the conversation, I'm just going to state it as it is since you keeping clinging to this: your friend likely plays the game a lot, but isn't very good all around if he will loses to an unpracticed Fox player 9/10 times with his best character. The Marios themselves are top tier too, so it's a poor example, accept to highlight that your friend likely isn't as amazing at the game as you hold him to it, and you shouldn't be treating this isolated example as gospel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_6uLgjtmK0 (Video cracks me up with when the crowd starts chanting Falco too)

Also, since you stated you were a Ness player, you might want to check this video out for some more advance tactics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=643MAVFCbqI

Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Of course, but one of the reasons SSB was so great was that it didn't require finely honed reflexes to play and as such could be played by most anyone and after learning a character, they had a fair chance.


The same is true for Melee, but you will never admit to it.
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Offline Donutt007

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RE: Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #83 on: August 08, 2006, 11:31:35 AM »
Hey guys, why don't you post all that junk in a smash brothers topic..this one is supposed to be about the launch titles, which brawl is not. Thank you

Offline vudu

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RE: Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #84 on: August 08, 2006, 11:36:31 AM »
That Ness vs. Ness match might have been the most boring thing I've ever seen.  (Also, way to hijack another thead, guys.)
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #85 on: August 08, 2006, 11:52:34 AM »
Move it over, Arbok.

Since you won't let DIE here...
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline Spak-Spang

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RE:Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #86 on: August 08, 2006, 03:29:27 PM »
So.  We need a Wii launch lineup and known future releases vs. Xbox 360 games and known future releases vs. PS3 launch lineup and known future releases.

Post to get this discussion back to its purpose.  

Too bad I am about to start class, and can't do the research.

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #87 on: August 08, 2006, 05:55:23 PM »
That sounds like a great deal of work and to much to ask of Donutt.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #88 on: August 08, 2006, 06:04:18 PM »
Let's see the big games for Wii are:

Wii Sports
Metroid Prime 3
Legend of Zelda
Mario Galaxy
SSBB
Day of Disastor (has potential)
Rayman 4

Xbox 360:
Bioshock
Halo 3
Gears of War
Forza 2

PS3:
Grand Turismo
Giant Crabs
Final Fantasy
MGS
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Offline Ceric

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RE: Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #89 on: August 08, 2006, 06:22:02 PM »
360: Don't forget Blue Dragon and Ninety-Nine Nights actually here.
PS3:  Heres whats on the official site.
Wii: Heres whats on the Nintendo site after a quick look

I have to say that Microsoft has the better list setup out of all those.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE:Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #90 on: August 08, 2006, 07:22:01 PM »
Giant Crabs sounds intriguing.

Do you think that this game is about those historically accurate battles in Japan?


Offline WalkingTheCow

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RE: Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #91 on: August 08, 2006, 07:53:14 PM »
I'm dissapointed to see Trauma Center: Second Opinion being so overlooked. I think the wiimote and Trauma Center is a match made in heaven. Then again we aren't getting much info on it. . .

And I think Giant Crabs is about real-time weapon change! I know! With the power of the PS3 all your fantasies come true!

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #92 on: August 08, 2006, 08:16:17 PM »
I didn't list 99 Nights because it seems to be getting slammed in reviews, so I'm not sure that would constitute a big game.  I guess you can also consider Saint's Row as a big game, the rest of 360's titles seem to be multiplatform (for PC and Xbox 360). I'm not big on including multiplatform games as "big" games for a particular system, so I'm trying to stick to exclusives or somthing that will be out later on PC (like Bioshock or Gears of War). BTW the PS3 list looks terrible on that website, most of the games look super generic or shooters (perhaps one of the same?). Wii appears to have the biggest selection of "big" games by looking at the current launch or future game list.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #93 on: August 08, 2006, 09:16:51 PM »
99 Nights was a Dynasty Warriors clone which tries to sell primarily on sex appeal even though the models look surprisingly unappealing (sorry, but the only picture I've seen advertising the game is the female mage, typically showing lots of leg).

Also, the game was rated M solely for the sake of being rated M. I've played the demo and there was no reason to carry an M-rating.

Wouldn't count it at all...
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #94 on: August 08, 2006, 10:57:13 PM »
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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
99 Nights was a Dynasty Warriors clone which tries to sell primarily on sex appeal even though the models look surprisingly unappealing (sorry, but the only picture I've seen advertising the game is the female mage, typically showing lots of leg).

Also, the game was rated M solely for the sake of being rated M. I've played the demo and there was no reason to carry an M-rating.

Wouldn't count it at all...


From what I've seen of 99 Nights, Project Hammer looks like a deep and fulfilling experience next to it!
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Offline IceCold

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RE: Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #95 on: August 08, 2006, 11:29:30 PM »
And that's the problem with games like that which are overambitious in terms of scope. I think it was Ian who said that he wouldn't be satisfied with a console's power until you could have Lord of the Rings type fights in realtime, with thousands upon thousands of enemies on screen. You need to realise, though, that if there are so many enemies, it will turn the game into a mindless hack 'n slash with no strategy. This is what I feel 99 Nights has slipped into. It seems boring and repetitive; two things that are never present in a good game.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #96 on: August 08, 2006, 11:40:22 PM »
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Originally posted by: IceCold
And that's the problem with games like that which are overambitious in terms of scope. I think it was Ian who said that he wouldn't be satisfied with a console's power until you could have Lord of the Rings type fights in realtime, with thousands upon thousands of enemies on screen. You need to realise, though, that if there are so many enemies, it will turn the game into a mindless hack 'n slash with no strategy. This is what I feel 99 Nights has slipped into. It seems boring and repetitive; two things that are never present in a good game.


I think it will be a long time before we have LOTR esque battles, I can't imagine the CPU processing power it would take to have hordes of enemies behave like individuals, instead of limited AI like you see in 99 or other games that throw a bunch of creatures at you.  
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Offline Requiem

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RE: Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #97 on: August 09, 2006, 04:54:18 AM »
And that's exactly what IceCold is saying...

"Hey....

I'm not a whore, ok? Really.....really, I'm not.

But, if she slips man....if she slips, I slide!"

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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #98 on: August 09, 2006, 04:54:58 AM »
Games like Trauma Center I think are going to be the saving grace for gaming and the Wii.

Basically Trauma Center represents a type of game we haven't really seen before.  It isn't about killing people, or beating people in a race, or sports event.  It is a different kind of game...and will appeal to different types of markets.

When I look at the above list of Big games for all three systems, I don't see anything that catches the eye of the nongamer.  And I look at the PS3 list and Xbox list and I don't see anything that fits my personal taste of more lighthearted gaming, only Nintendo has a list with that.

If you were to add to Nintendo's big list:

Trauma Center
Wario Ware Smooth Moves
Wii Sports

You then add 3 games that CAN appeal (but may not) to a vastly different gamer and market.  It is in this new market that Nintendo hopes to make it big.


Offline Requiem

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RE: Complete List of Wii Launch Titles
« Reply #99 on: August 09, 2006, 04:59:02 AM »
If WiiSports doesn't appeal to non-gamers, I don't know what will.


I really hope Nintendo will announce a new Animal Crossing at Liepzig...
"Hey....

I'm not a whore, ok? Really.....really, I'm not.

But, if she slips man....if she slips, I slide!"

Qoute of the Summer