Author Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*  (Read 3155159 times)

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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5925 on: March 18, 2012, 11:13:13 AM »
A lesson in how to start a rumor and drive hits to your site based on nothing. and why you always try to track a story/rumor down to where it originated from.

Below, an Analyst speculates that Rockstar may delayed GTAV (based on retail channel checks and previous release schedules) to possibly complete a Wii U build of the game;

Analyst things GTA V early next year with a Wii U version possible.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-03-14-gta-v-likely-to-launch-in-early-2013-wii-u-sku-possible-analyst?

The next day, a blog site runs with that speculation and rewords it as fact, yet provides no source to their info in hopes that they won't be discovered.

http://wiiudaily.com/2012/03/grand-theft-auto-5-coming-to-wii-u-in-2013/
Quote from: wiiudaily 3/15/2012
According to a new financial report from developer/publisher Rockstar, the company will release Grand Theft Auto 5 in early 2013, and it will be coming to the Wii U in addition to other consoles. GTA V was announced last year, but no release date was given. Considering that Rockstar usually takes their time with games, and rarely announces release date until they’re absolutely certain, it’s easy to see Grand Theft Auto 5 be released about a year from now. But the biggest surprise is that it now appears we’ll be seeing GTA V on the Nintendo Wii U as well, and hopefully with some new and innovative ways of using the new Wii U controller.

well, you've been discovered. and I'm only posting this here just in case it gets picked up elsewhere and someone else decides to post it thinking it's a confirmation.

Offline Kairon

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5926 on: March 18, 2012, 02:42:43 PM »
I'm totally having flashbacks of Shattered Glass right now.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5927 on: March 18, 2012, 02:45:29 PM »
the console's going to need more internal room and be larger sized.

The console could always be slimmed down later on in a future revision, once the chips can be made smaller.

Yup, I'm starting to think Nintendo will take take a hit in form factor if they intend on putting all this tech in the thing. Maybe if they can keep everyone looking at the controller, which is the general idea, no one will stop to think about how big the console is.

The Wii had to be small and attractive and non-threatening partly because Nintendo wanted the thing front and center in people's living rooms. But with the Wii U, it's the controller that's supposed to be a visual center of attention, not the console.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5928 on: March 18, 2012, 03:04:29 PM »
I'm totally having flashbacks of Shattered Glass right now.

Shattered Glass?

Offline MegaByte

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5929 on: March 18, 2012, 03:04:41 PM »
GDDR5 has been around since 2008. I don't think that's a limiting factor.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5930 on: March 18, 2012, 03:07:18 PM »
Shattered Glass?

That movie about that reporter who made up stories at a major periodical and kept doing it for like, years and years before getting caught.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Wii U Dev Kits are True 720p with heavy uPad usage.
« Reply #5931 on: March 18, 2012, 04:51:11 PM »
Reassurance of what we already believed to be true?

IdeaMan over @ NeoGAF (a french  "ex-journalist") has been dropping bread crumbs behind him in hopes of keeping things exciting on the long road to E3 based on 2nd hand info he has obtained from dev contacts of his.

His latest post points things out quite clearly.
Current Wii U dev kits are topping out @ 720p with extensive uPad screen usage.
1080p still doable with little to no complex sub-screening... but, games being referenced are ports of PS360 games.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36144655&postcount=4991
Quote from: IdeaMan
About the resolution of the games from which my second-hand knowledge come. This may precise a tad more the Wii U power, in a specific context, how third-parties handle the system. It’s related to everything I’ve said before.

The games concerned run ALL in 720p on the main screen. For now, from the mouths of my sources, it's not a console that looks to manage software with complex engines with such ease that their resolution might be 1080p, even at 30 fps. The 720p resolution is best suited for these titles to have a smooth framerate, in addition of the subscreen.

Now let’s talk about the context, which is as important as the information itself:

- Both games have an intensive use of the padlet. More concretely, 3D scenes, different angle of what is on the TV (bird eye view for example). The system is therefore capable of displaying a main screen of AT LEAST comparable quality than current gen versions in 720p (with I guess, a certain amount of AA, etc.) AND another 480p content on the tablet.
- The titles are ports that will be available on actual HD platforms, or more “exclusive” ones but build on inhouse engines already deployed in previous softs. They aren’t tailored from A to Z for the Wii U particularities. And everything is still in development, + dependent of the evolution of dev kits that are changing regularly (at least until now). So it can only improve, and the situation may be different for Nintendo and first-party titles.
- The dev kit involved are the V4 ones. The “V5” is a little more powerful, but apparently not to a point to push these games from 720p to 1080p.
- My sources added that the resolution is the one chosen for now, but a hypothetical other power boost that may occurring post V5  need to be important to allow the system to run these games properly in 1080p.
- These titles will change in the visual department as, like I said, some effects will be applied more in the “end” of the development, with perhaps graphical features not handled by current gen, thanks to the more modern Wii U GPU. So the end result on the main screen will be prettier than on PS360, with a higher resolution (many current gen content are not in true 720p) and especially in conjunction with a heavy use of the tablet. We might expect that games leaving it for simple things will be even more impressive on the TV.

From these informations, several speculations can be derived as:
- The possibility that games with simple engines, such as family titles, Mii-based ones, etc, will be in 1080p.
- Maybe other developers, with a simplistic use of the padlet + after all the optimizations and hardware boosts/tweaking until the dev kit finalization (if they are only moderate and not extensive to a point that it will change this situation completely), will release games in 1080p (with less AA than on 720p, less FPS, etc.), but it doesn’t seem possible AT the moment, if they want their titles to reach a certain level of sophistication and quality in visuals on the TV + intricate use of the subscreen.
- I guess we can speculate further on the power and the amount of some components with this, such as memory / buffer, the GPU…

All these infos are related to my previous posts (it’s the same context) about the hardware power scale, the impressions of my sources, the tablet usage, the memory, the surprising amount of RAM occupation from the OS/Background (it will surely be better and therefore have a positive impact on the general performances, etc.).

Nothing revolutionary as I said, but it can help narrowing a little more the Wii U capacities in this particular context, what you can expect from third parties ports/not exclusive games (because having followed each page of these threads, I saw many gafers who are expecting these titles to be the 1080p versions of their current gen counterparts, but for now, it’s not the case). This does not necessarily mean that the Wii U is underpowered EITHER: manage a visually ambitious game in a solid 720p & framerate, at the minimum a bit prettier than on Xbox 360 + an additional 480p screen with a complex scene rendered on it, is not a small thing.


Just want to note that he is talking about PS360 ports on the Wii U and not games that were build from the ground up for Wii U, nor are they being developed on final Dev Kits, so many things could still change.


But what is being said:
Better than PS360 visuals (atleast true 720p) with more effects and better framerates on the TV while also using the uPad (480p) screen, and that is for a game with complex imagery going on on the uPad at the same time.
does still sound good. and that is from a non final dev kit from a game(s) that are not built from the ground up for Wii U.

Now we need to know how the dual uPad usage is gonna work out. 1080p Madden 2013?

Offline Adrock

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5932 on: March 18, 2012, 05:19:57 PM »
Interesting read. I wonder how many games are really going to need to display complex imagery on both the TV and tablet controller at the same time. Thanks for the info.

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5933 on: March 18, 2012, 06:13:17 PM »
Just for an example, a number of 360 and PS3 games are not full 720p. A list of resolutions can be found here:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

Offline Snake-Arms

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5934 on: March 18, 2012, 06:18:22 PM »
Excellent stuff, BlackNMild.

Also, I hope you don't mind, but I sometimes post your rumors finds at gamespot.com.  Of course, I always give you credit. ;)

Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5935 on: March 18, 2012, 06:21:47 PM »
Sony never required games to be in HD (720p and up), though for the first few years of its existence Microsoft did require all Xbox 360 games to be at least 720p.

Not surprised that games the use the Wii U controller extensively will be limited to 720p, the system does have to process the video for both the TV and the controller since the controller does none of it.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5936 on: March 18, 2012, 06:46:04 PM »
Can't current (PS360) consoles do 1080? If the WiiU can only do 720 then that's a step backwards. I know it can do 1080 if the tablet display is disabled, but that's a major selling point behind the console, so that shouldn't have to be disabled.

Also, imagine what this is going to mean if 2 or more tablets are involved. Will the TV's resolution have to be knocked down to 480 in order to pull off local multiplayer? That would really suck.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 06:49:40 PM by Chozo Ghost »
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5937 on: March 18, 2012, 06:52:40 PM »
Do you mean upscaling or actual resolution? Only like three 360 games can do 1080p and they're sports games.

Offline Mannypon

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5938 on: March 18, 2012, 06:56:41 PM »
From my understanding of what I just read is that 1080p means simple Upad integration not a complete disabling.  All this is for ports not built around the wiiu specifically and its only regarding V4 of the development kits.  Things will always improve with time.

Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5939 on: March 18, 2012, 06:58:10 PM »
Chozo, I don't think you read any of what BnM2K1 posted.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5940 on: March 18, 2012, 07:34:05 PM »
I am surprised to find that rendering anything to the uMote effects the main screen.  Simply because the 3DS has a GPU for each screen if memory serves.  I be very surprised if the uMote doesn't have a smaller dedicated GPU of its own in the WiiU. 

I personally be dismayed to only be doing 720p on complex things.  Why?  Because PCs can support larger than 1080p and has for while.

If I was going to make a game system today I would want doing 1080p 60 FPS on my most taxing game in the current gen to be a clear goal.  We are not moving from 1080p in a while.  I would have an eye on doing 1080p 3D at 30 FPS on the same game.  I be very surprised if MS and Sony are not thinking much the same thing.
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Offline smallsharkbigbite

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5941 on: March 18, 2012, 07:44:55 PM »
I am surprised to find that rendering anything to the uMote effects the main screen.  Simply because the 3DS has a GPU for each screen if memory serves.  I be very surprised if the uMote doesn't have a smaller dedicated GPU of its own in the WiiU. 

But the Wii U console has to process the image and send it to the controller.  With the 3ds, each process can access the game information independently and thus they do not need to be linked.  The controller has no access to anything unless the console accesses it and sends it in a format that the controller can understand.  It would have to be plugged into the Wii console to do things independently of the system.

Quote
I personally be dismayed to only be doing 720p on complex things.  Why?  Because PCs can support larger than 1080p and has for while.

That is a little baffling.  I know a decent computer would cost more than most consoles, but a console isn't running a large OS and dozens of programs in the backgrand.  Plus, you know what your getting with a console.  On the PC you have to code additional options to be able to handle all the different hardware possibilities. 

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5942 on: March 18, 2012, 08:09:24 PM »
But the Wii U console has to process the image and send it to the controller.

He gets that. He said the WiiU should have a separate GPU on the console (not the tablet) which has the sole purpose of handling the display which is then streamed to the tablet. Apparently, as it is there is only one GPU on the WiiU and this one GPU has the burden of handling display to BOTH the tablet and the TV at the same time.

What Ceric is saying is the WiiU console should have another GPU to handle the tablet streaming. That way the core GPU which does the TV would be completely free to do its thing and not have to be taxed by doing multiple things.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5943 on: March 18, 2012, 08:14:47 PM »
I am surprised to find that rendering anything to the uMote effects the main screen.  Simply because the 3DS has a GPU for each screen if memory serves.  I be very surprised if the uMote doesn't have a smaller dedicated GPU of its own in the WiiU. 

But the Wii U console has to process the image and send it to the controller.  With the 3ds, each process can access the game information independently and thus they do not need to be linked.  The controller has no access to anything unless the console accesses it and sends it in a format that the controller can understand.  It would have to be plugged into the Wii console to do things independently of the system.
I'm a litte confused by this.  Read the portion that is bolded.  The WiiU does all the processing and then sends it to the uMote.  It makes sense that it would have a dedicated GPU that sole purpose in life was to do the processing for the uMote.  The 3DS already has the concept with the second GPU which was intended to just drive 1 of the screens.


Quote
Quote
I personally be dismayed to only be doing 720p on complex things.  Why?  Because PCs can support larger than 1080p and has for while.

That is a little baffling.  I know a decent computer would cost more than most consoles, but a console isn't running a large OS and dozens of programs in the backgrand.  Plus, you know what your getting with a console.  On the PC you have to code additional options to be able to handle all the different hardware possibilities. 
Whats baffling?  PCs have been able to do 1080p since before it was relatively standard on TVs.  Mind you maybe not very cost effectively.  With how Consoles can specialize it should be easier to obtain the same goal.


But the Wii U console has to process the image and send it to the controller.

He gets that. He said the WiiU should have a separate GPU on the console (not the tablet) which has the sole purpose of handling the display which is then streamed to the tablet. Apparently, as it is there is only one GPU on the WiiU and this one GPU has the burden of handling display to BOTH the tablet and the TV at the same time.

What Ceric is saying is the WiiU console should have another GPU to handle the tablet streaming. That way the core GPU which does the TV would be completely free to do its thing and not have to be taxed by doing multiple things.
Yeah.  It was also a statement of confusion since Nintendo has already done this method before with the DS line.  It would also make the initial 1 uMote only concept make more sense.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5944 on: March 18, 2012, 08:17:09 PM »
I think I'm more interested to know what developers are putting on the uPad screen that's so taxing. Gotta be some pretty neat stuff.
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Offline MegaByte

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5945 on: March 18, 2012, 08:21:09 PM »
The 3DS does not have a second GPU. It has a dual-core CPU, but a single-core GPU.
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Offline smallsharkbigbite

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5946 on: March 18, 2012, 08:27:06 PM »

I'm a litte confused by this.  Read the portion that is bolded. 

That makes sense, I'll have to work on my comprehensive reading skills a little bit.  The Wii U isn't finalized yet.  But then again I wouldn't hold my hope out for such an arrangement since that would require a greater console cost. 

Quote
I personally be dismayed to only be doing 720p on complex things.  Why?  Because PCs can support larger than 1080p and has for while.

That is a little baffling.  I know a decent computer would cost more than most consoles, but a console isn't running a large OS and dozens of programs in the backgrand.  Plus, you know what your getting with a console.  On the PC you have to code additional options to be able to handle all the different hardware possibilities. 

Whats baffling?  PCs have been able to do 1080p since before it was relatively standard on TVs.  Mind you maybe not very cost effectively.  With how Consoles can specialize it should be easier to obtain the same goal.
I was agreeing with you.  I.E. that is baffling that console's haven't pulled off 1080p yet(other than some token PS3/xbox360 games).  Then in my own way tried to list a couple of reasons why consoles should be able to hit those goals easier despite not having the same specs as modern PCs. 

Offline Ceric

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5947 on: March 18, 2012, 08:36:02 PM »
The 3DS does not have a second GPU. It has a dual-core CPU, but a single-core GPU.
I know I have read that it had a big and a little GPU at least at one point here before.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5948 on: March 18, 2012, 08:49:01 PM »
I think I'm more interested to know what developers are putting on the uPad screen that's so taxing. Gotta be some pretty neat stuff.

It sounds to me like they're rendering completely independent 3D scenes. This is why people are suggesting that the Wii U could probably achieve higher graphical benchmarks at launch if the controller were completely out of the picture.
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #5949 on: March 18, 2012, 09:05:31 PM »
Holy smokes GTAV for Wii U!!!!!!

http://wiiudaily.com/2012/03/grand-theft-auto-5-coming-to-wii-u-in-2013/


















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