Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[Stogi]

I agree. 300 is the only price point that makes sense. That's really high for Nintendo, so if they want support, it better be more than a Wii HD.

[Ceric]

I disagree that a price drop would change the preception of being similarly priced as a handheld on release.  It will have to be higher.  General News is very good at point out the price comparisons.

[BlackNMild2k1]

If they are gonna keep 3DS priced @ $249.99 this holiday season, then they should make it the Gold Zelda 25th Anniversary edition with OoT3D packed in & ALTTP3D pre-loaded and then the normal unit (w/ just AR games) price dropped to $219.99 (although $199.99 I think is the magic price pioint for the 3DS).

Then they should be able to launch the Wii2HD @ $299.99 that is roughly on par with PS3 & X360 combined x2
That would mean 1080p @ 60fps without overtaxing the system, and that's with 90% of effects enabled simultaneously. 1+GB of RAM, 64GB of user storage and a game format that starts @ 12+GB per disc/cartridge.

That's not asking too much is it? Oh and a early 2012 release.

[Chozo Ghost]

the WiiD has to be more than a Wii with HD and built-in Motion Plus.

The current Wii SKUs already have built-in Motion Plus.

[Chozo Ghost]

The inflation equivalent of $249.99 in 1996 would be $343.78 in 2010 (last year with inflation stats.)

With that being the case, it may be better if the console were priced $349.99 because I would like to see it have the sort of performance leap that the N64 had over the SNES. If the N64 cost $249 at its launch and if that is the equivalent of $349 in today's money, then maybe the next console should be set at $349.

Its only $50 more than the $299 everyone seems to be suggesting it be priced at, but frankly I'd be willing to pay that if it means a substantial leap in performance. Keep in mind also that the price can and will go down from there as manufacturing costs go down, which they inevitably will. $349 sounds like a lot, but that's actually what the N64 cost (adjusted for inflation), so if the new console is priced at that level then its really no more expensive than the N64 was 15 years ago. You gotta factor in the inflation.

ETA: I wonder how much the $249 price of the 3DS compares to the $89.99 price of the Gameboy in 1989. 1989 was 22 years ago so that's quite a lot of time for inflation to do its work. I'm sure even after inflation the 3DS probably still costs more relative to the Gameboy, but definitely not by as much as most people think.

[Louieturkey]

With that being the case, it may be better if the console were priced $349.99 because I would like to see it have the sort of performance leap that the N64 had over the SNES. If the N64 cost $249 at its launch and if that is the equivalent of $349 in today's money, then maybe the next console should be set at $349.

The N64 cost $199.99 at launch.  Nintendo announced the launch price at $249.99 but dropped it to $199.99 a few days before the launch.

[Ceric]

So we'll change the number to $273.66.  I seem to still remember it being $249.99 but that was 14 years ago.   Take in consideration you didn't even get a token game with it originally.

[Louieturkey]

So we'll change the number to $273.66.  I seem to still remember it being $249.99 but that was 14 years ago.   Take in consideration you didn't even get a token game with it originally.

It was the first Nintendo system that didn't come with a game, at least in the US.  So really, to actually play anything at the time, the price was really $259.98.

[Chozo Ghost]

So we'll change the number to $273.66.  I seem to still remember it being $249.99 but that was 14 years ago.   Take in consideration you didn't even get a token game with it originally.

I also remember it being $249.99, so either he's mistaken or we both are mistaken. I'm thinking the price probably did drop to $199 very quickly though, and that may be the cause of the confusion.

I remember the carts being ridiculously expensive. I remember some games at EBgames (now part of Gamestop) were priced as high as $79.99 and a few even $99.99 or higher. It was crazy...

[Nick DiMola]

The N64 was released with two launch games, Super Mario 64 and Pilotwings 64, and a third in Japan, Saikyō Habu Shōgi. The N64's suggested retail price was US$199 at its launch and it was later marketed with the slogan "Get N, or get Out!". The N64 sold 32.93 million units worldwide. The console was released in at least eight variants with different colors and sizes. An assortment of limited edition controllers were sold or used as contest prizes during the N64's lifespan.

[Mop it up]

Some stores, such as Funcoland, did charge $250 for the Nintendo 64, and also charged more than the standard MSRP of $60 (and later $50, and $40 for Player's Choice) for games. This may have had something to do with Nintendo's higher royalties, I don't know, but I don't recall most stores charging more for PlayStation stuff (though Funcoland had at least a $5 markup on everything). So those who recall it being $250 might have actually seen it for as much, but its MSRP was $199.99.

Also, I don't think the NES was released at $199.99 in North America. I believe it had two bundles, one with a bunch of pack-ins for something more than $200 and one basic set which was something less than $200.

[BlackNMild2k1]

$150 Wii come May 15th!?
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/12/nintendo-cutting-wii-price-to-150-on-may-15th/

It's a little past due on a price cut, but better late than never. Hope it happens with another color and still has the games packed in.

Nintendo's miniature white monolith has sold like gangbusters for long enough that we're wary it'll ever get cheap, but a trusted source tells us a price cut is indeed headed our way -- and that the Nintendo Wii will cost just $150 starting May 15th. The timing would make some sense, given how Nintendo's profits have tanked for a while due to flagging hardware sales, and just last month Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime hinted that the Wii's price might be a potential variable to change that in an interview with Gamasutra. Still, we're not fully convinced that Nintendo would announce a price cut then, rather than, say, at the Electronics Entertainment Expo in June, and it's not like the company to let this sort of announcement leak out, but if you find a shiny new copy of Mario Kart Wii in a $150 console bundle this time next month, don't say we didn't warn you.

Now hopefully the 3DS follows suit this Xmas making room for a Wii2 @ $250 early 2012.

[Ceric]

Wii2 can't cost $250 because that is what the 3DS launch was.  By Selling it at $250 Nintendo is saying "Hey, we think these are comparable."  You don't want your Console to be comparable to a handheld, even though it be easy enough to make a handheld that was now-days.

A $150 price drop would signify to me that we would be seeing the successor of the Wii within the next fiscal year for Nintendo.  They don't like Price drops with there whole Right Price philosophy.

[BlackNMild2k1]

When I said follow suit, I meant a $50 price drop for the 3DS too, right after Xmas, leaving the $250 price tag unused.

[Chozo Ghost]

I would rather the console be priced $349 if that meant a more substantial boost in power of the system. If Nintendo has to cut corners and make the system weaker in order to get the price to $299 then I would rather they not do that. Sure, it will sell more early on at a $299 price tag, but if the hardware isn't very powerful then it isn't going to last over the long haul and its going to be just like the Wii all over again.

Its better if Nintendo makes the hardware as powerful as possible and price be damned. The price can come down later on, but once the hardware specs are set they are permanently set that way for the rest of the consoles life. So its important they be as high as possible. I'm not saying they should go overboard and end up with a $600 console like the PS3, but a minor incremental update isn't the answer either. It needs to be somewhere in between. I may be in the minority here, but I would personally be okay with a price as high as $399 provided that the components that made up the system actually cost that much, and also with the very important caveat that the price would eventually go down from there. The PS3 has proven that a console which launches at $600 can eventually turn itself around after a few years and price drops, so a system which launches at $400 should be able to pull it off as well. But it must actually be worth that price, which means it must be light years ahead of the Wii, and at least twice as powerful as the PS3/360.

I want to see the Wii's successor leave the competition in the dust. Just catching up to them isn't good enough, imho.

[BlackNMild2k1]

The real problem is not with $299 or $250, the real problem is that Nintendo sold us a Wii @ $250 while making a ~$100 profit on the hardware from Day 1. That is how they became more Apple like in their approach and not just in the sleek white form factor, but the fact that they basically repacked the gamecube and sold it at a premium for record profits. It's why Iwata can't stop laughing, it's fucking hilarious.

If Nintendo can make the next system $250 and it actually cost ~$250, then we can have something that we want, which is hardware that is about 2x PS360 combined. MS was making X360's for around $150 or less for about 2 years now (before the slim) and I'm sure that is why they are seeing very decent profits this lat in the generation now.

I don't want a $349.99 piece of hardware in the store that only cost them to $250 to make, I want a $250 piece of hardware in the store that cost them ~$250 to make. They sell so much hardware and software that it would be hard to not justify selling the hardware at neat cost and make up the difference in the software, especially with how quickly they should be able to lower manufacturing cost on hardware.

[BlackNMild2k1]

$150 Wii come May 15th!?
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/12/nintendo-cutting-wii-price-to-150-on-may-15th/

It's a little past due on a price cut, but better late than never. Hope it happens with another color and still has the games packed in.

Nintendo's miniature white monolith has sold like gangbusters for long enough that we're wary it'll ever get cheap, but a trusted source tells us a price cut is indeed headed our way -- and that the Nintendo Wii will cost just $150 starting May 15th. The timing would make some sense, given how Nintendo's profits have tanked for a while due to flagging hardware sales, and just last month Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime hinted that the Wii's price might be a potential variable to change that in an interview with Gamasutra. Still, we're not fully convinced that Nintendo would announce a price cut then, rather than, say, at the Electronics Entertainment Expo in June, and it's not like the company to let this sort of announcement leak out, but if you find a shiny new copy of Mario Kart Wii in a $150 console bundle this time next month, don't say we didn't warn you.

Now hopefully the 3DS follows suit this Xmas making room for a Wii2 @ $250 early 2012.

Kmarts inventory price list


And in unrelated news, it looks like the Zune is getting marked down to $9.99 from $249.99

[Ceric]

You and I both know that is not how Nintendo works.  They have always done the Apple Style of Computer Hardware Sales.  Reading the tear-down information its very concievable that Nintendo made a Maximum of $147 off my purchase of the 3DS.  Thats a lot I'm sure its lower once R&D and like are factor in but still thats the potential.

Though they are non-arguably the leader in Handhelds, I would not be surprised to find if I looked thats what they have been making on the DS Hardware since after the DSLite.  While they are a leader of sort in the console space they know that they can't have that large of a premium on the next system.  Wonder if I did some digging if I could get the tear-down vs Street of the older consoles.  Needless to say I do not believe Nintendo will accept anything less then making at least $50 per Console Initially.  I lean more towards $100 myself because we have already seen that precedence.

 
I would not hesitate to buy a $9.99 Zune.  Now It is K-Mart were talking about...

[Ian Sane]

The real problem is not with $299 or $250, the real problem is that Nintendo sold us a Wii @ $250 while making a ~$100 profit on the hardware from Day 1. That is how they became more Apple like in their approach and not just in the sleek white form factor, but the fact that they basically repacked the gamecube and sold it at a premium for record profits. It's why Iwata can't stop laughing, it's fucking hilarious.

Yeah, to me that was just outright fucking us.  The Wii is a con and this pretty much turned me from Nintendo fan to merely a person who owns a Nintendo system.  I don't have a problem with Nintendo making a profit on their hardware but with the Wii they compromised the product itself to do so.  Nintendo gets $100 markup and we get crappy third party support and a console that is quickly branded as the destination for cheap shovelware and PS2/PSP ports.
 
Nintendo can make a profit off of the Wii 2 as long as they don't gimp the system as a result.  There is a balance they have to reach involving a profit margin they're happy with, a price the public is willing to pay, and hardware that can last against any PS360 successors.  Nintendo is too greedy and will certainly **** this balance up.

[Mop it up]

Considering Nintendo cheaped out on the Wii hardware far more than they needed to in order to make a profit, I have my doubts the next system will be any different. I guess you never know, but the most I'm expecting is something similar in terms of end result as the XBox 360 and PS3.

As far as its price in comparison with the 3DS, I don't think that matters. They're practically different markets. The DSi XL is almost as much as the Wii and I doubt that stopped anyone who wanted one from getting one. Same with the PSP and any other handheld device that has been a similar price to the Wii over the years.

[Chozo Ghost]

Does the cost of manufacturing the Wii factor in the bundled Wiimote, Nunchuck, game, and other components? It isn't just the console itself, after all. I know they got a huge markup, but is it really as high as $100 per unit when all things are taken into account?

In any case, the huge profit they made this generation gives Nintendo a huge war chest to go into the next generation with. They can (and probably should) now consider doing what Sony and MS has always done and sell the console for a loss in order to gain market share.  They couldn't do that before because they were struggling, but that's no longer the case as of now.

[Mop it up]

The Wiimote and Nunchuk have huge markups too so I'm sure everything was included with the $100 profit per unit estimate.

Nintendo has never sold any single one of its systems, home and handheld, at a loss, nor will they ever. Maybe that's why they've not only been able to survive all this time, but have always been a profitable company even during the dark days of the GameCube.

[Chozo Ghost]

I'm sure most of us would like to see Nintendo do more than just survive, though. They've become the market leader again, and that's great, but wouldn't it be even better if they had powerful hardware and decent 3rd party support as well? In order for that to happen they have to take risks. Sure, if they go with conservative hardware which they sell for a profit I'm sure they will continue to survive, but they will never have the same level of 3rd party support as the competition unless they take some risks and produce hardware which is competitive and capable of handling the things that developers want to create.

If they don't, then we will continue to see all these awesome games coming to 360/PS3/PC and the Nintendo console getting shat on with casual shovelware. That sort of surviving isn't living; its just existing. As a Nintendo fan, I want Nintendo to do more than just exist.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I'm in no way saying that Nintendo should take a loss on any hardware sold, just deliver a hardware that is more bang for the same buck. They don't have to be cutting to the point of bleeding edge, but they sure as hell shouldn't basically repackage the Wii again and then try to sell it to me again at a premium.

Their next system has to come in under $299.99 and be more powerful than the PS360 combined (which should be hard to do) x2 (also shouldn't be that hard) with FULL backwards compatibility with Wii software (GC is not important and can be handled through VC). It has to be powerful enough to be the lead dev system for the next 2-3 years against the PS360 and then still have enough graphical Wow Factor to not be outclassed by the PS4 & X1080 (even though we're coming to a point of diminishing returns) by a long shot.

Also I may have exaggerated a little on the Day 1 ~$100 profit margins, but the point still stands. Nintendo was making a lot of money on repackaged hardware and tried to justify ~$30-$50 of it with WiiSports which would normally be considered a $10 game at retail. Yeah the Wiimote supposedly was a large part of the cost (R&D & Hardware), but I'm sure a breakdown will still show significant profit margins on the Wii @ $249.99, $199.99 and soon to be $149.99 too.
The actual Wii Console can't cost more than about $70 to manufacture at this point(that includes the generous 512MB of flash or whatever it is), and with the amount of Wiimotes sold around the world, that thing can't cost more than $20 itself either.

[Adrock]

Actual value vs. Perceived value. Nintendo could have sold their hardware for less. However, while Nintendo is undoubtedly pushing profit margins, they also don't want their hardware to appear dated when put next to the competition. Nintendo may offer a completely different experience than Apple, but both companies are still competing for consumer dollars. If there's only $300 to spend, Nintendo obviously wants that spent on 3DS. It's not as simple as saying, "Oh, cheaper is more appealing." It is but it isn't. If Nintendo sells for significantly less, 3DS looks like lesser hardware even if it isn't and could lose a sale due to the perception of looking old or dated. Not all consumers are informed. In fact, most are not.

When it comes to consoles, Nintendo can definitely sell for $300, maybe even $350. Not saying I'd like it, but Nintendo could get away with it. With the Wii, Nintendo has learned that people will pay almost any amount of money if something is desirable enough. Depending on how confident they are on the innovative features of their next console, Nintendo could innovate, profit, and compete power-wise for a fairly reasonable price.

I'm sticking to my guns. I believe the successor to the Wii is going to be a beast. While I think it should launch in 2011, it'll launch in 2012, give or take a year before Sony/MS launch their consoles, and still be comparable in power. I'm iffy on backwards compatibility. There's a good chance Nintendo could ditch optical media. They've never liked discs, only begrudgingly employing them due to the lack of a viable alternative at the time. And Nintendo doesn't give a shizzle about our backcatalog. Backwards compatibility is not a priority for them and they'll do away with it if they can/have to and they know most of us would rebuy those games anyway. Admit it. I can. I paid $50 for each Metroid Prime game and still bought Trilogy. Even though I got it on sale, I still bought it. Why? Because. How many of us are going to buy Ocarina of Time again? They can toss in Master Quest and call it a deal, but I have that too...