Topic: Sony getting hit Hard lately

[nitsu niflheim]

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Originally posted by: Adrock
If you replaced every reference to Microsoft with an appropriate reference to Nintendo (i.e. Halo ---> Zelda), Nintendo fans would go wild..... even though, in either case, you could make the same arguments for and against. For example:

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Twilight Princess won't do anything for Nintendo because the game is fanservice (that's what sequels are most of the time) and it's not the kind of game that will lure in new buyers. It's for people that have already played Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker.

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I don't think it's going to push many systems either. It's a 3rd gen franchise title. Basically it's being refined to the point where only the super hardcore are going to be interested in it any longer and that super hardcore market for the game probably already own Wiis as it is. I haven't heard about anything different between Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy. As it is, is there even any evidence that Super Mario Sunshine pushed a lot of systems? Even if it did, it's certainly less than Super Mario 64 did, and Super Mario Galaxy will push even less.

Most everyone who wants the game already has the system. Nintendo has been pimping it since before the Wii even came out. Who's left that wants the game to sell Wiis to?

You get my point.  I wasn't picking Halo 3 to pick on Halo 3.  I was just making a statement on sequels, whether they are on Wii, XB360 or PS3.

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: Adrock
If you replaced every reference to Microsoft with an appropriate reference to Nintendo (i.e. Halo ---> Zelda), Nintendo fans would go wild..... even though, in either case, you could make the same arguments for and against. For example:

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Twilight Princess won't do anything for Nintendo because the game is fanservice (that's what sequels are most of the time) and it's not the kind of game that will lure in new buyers. It's for people that have already played Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker.

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I don't think it's going to push many systems either. It's a 3rd gen franchise title. Basically it's being refined to the point where only the super hardcore are going to be interested in it any longer and that super hardcore market for the game probably already own Wiis as it is. I haven't heard about anything different between Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy. As it is, is there even any evidence that Super Mario Sunshine pushed a lot of systems? Even if it did, it's certainly less than Super Mario 64 did, and Super Mario Galaxy will push even less.

Most everyone who wants the game already has the system. Nintendo has been pimping it since before the Wii even came out. Who's left that wants the game to sell Wiis to?

When MS does with Halo what Nintendo has basically done with almost all of their sequels, meaning actually put some thought into how they can evolve gameplay instead of simply refining it, then this comparison will be valid. Until then, you're just splitting hairs.

And using Sunshine and Twilight Princess as examples is bad form. Sure, Nintendo has been guilty of fanservice in the past but for the most part they actually try with their sequels. Not like most other developers who just throw together new maps, add some prettier graphics, a token feature or two and then call it a day. Your comparison completely breaks down when you bring Galaxy into the picture. Have you seen any of the media for the game?

[Adrock]

Spoken like a true fanboy......

Even as a Mario and Zelda fan myself, I could argue that. But really, that's not even the point. I'm just opposed to all fanboyism.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Adrock
Spoken like a true fanboy......

Even as a Mario and Zelda fan myself, I could argue that. But really, that's not even the point. I'm just opposed to all fanboyism.

Great defense of your witty insertion of words there, yes you could argue it but it was stupid, especially comparing SMS vs SMG to the Halo 1 vs Halo 2 vs Halo 3. The point is that your so called wit does not hold water, perhaps you should go back and play Halo 1/2 then come back and compare it to the Super Mario Galaxy vs. SMS in "freshness".  Now if you would have used lets say Smash Brothers or Metroid Prime in comparison it would make a little more sense, but as it stands you made an unsound argument. Heck even big Halo fans would probably admit the first two games aren't that different besides multiplayer being online.

[Adrock]

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GoldenPhoenix wrote:
...your so called wit...

Very mature..... look how bent out of shape your getting..... You're resorting to thinly veiled insults.

Look, I'm not even a Halo fan. I don't know how many times I have to say it, but I'm not taking sides. I'm not making an argument for/against Halo or Mario or whatever. It doesn't matter what you switch Halo with, that's besides the point.

Your opinion is no more valid than the opposing side's opinion. That's all I'm saying. This isn't about being "witty" as you say. I just think it's all kind of pointless.

[Kairon]

ADROCK!!!

/cry

Stop taking my job!!!!

/bawl

I... I...

Anyone who's suggesting that Halo 3 will not sell consoles is blind. It's a GOOD GAME.

And 50% of XBOX 360 owners did NOT own an XBox previously. This means that the XBox 360 will actually gain new purchasers in the future not only from its own forays into previously untapped hardcore gamers, as well as rejuvenating their past owners who owned the previous XBox but have not yet jumped onto the 360.

Add that to the inevitable christmas spending and a strong line-up, and the XBox 360 will have a pretty okay holiday season.

[UltimatePartyBear]

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Originally posted by: Adrock
Look, I'm not even a Halo fan. I don't know how many times I have to say it, but I'm not taking sides. I'm not making an argument for/against Halo or Mario or whatever. It doesn't matter what you switch Halo with, that's besides the point.

Your opinion is no more valid than the opposing side's opinion. That's all I'm saying. This isn't about being "witty" as you say. I just think it's all kind of pointless.

I am also not making an argument for or against Halo or Mario, but I'm doing it by not stringing everyone along with lots of pointless posts.

Put another way, if it's all pointless, why are you still talking?

Edit: That kind of makes me sound peeved, but I'm not.

[Adrock]

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Stop taking my job!!!!

Sorry. Proceed.

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Put another way, if it's all pointless, why are you still talking?

I meant that using opinions as arguments was pointless. In any case, I've said my piece. I didn't really mean for anyone to get upset.

[that Baby guy]

Alright, I've decided the answer to my previous question.  Given the fairly low numbers of Xbox owners on Xbox Live back when Halo 2 had just been released, I have to say that most people bought the game for more Halo, and not online play.  Therefore, the prediction that Halo 3 will be a system seller of similar magnitude would be a wise prediction based on historical fact.  'Nuff said.

[Kairon]

Actually, I'd be much more inclined to suggest that Devil May Cry IV won't move many units, nor MGS 4, given those two games' actually relatively low (~ 2 million?) worldwide sales.

Halo is definitely gonna move copies though. The second sold 8 million worldwide, and virtually all of that in the USA and Europe? Yeah, it'll be big.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Adrock

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GoldenPhoenix wrote:
...your so called wit...

Very mature..... look how bent out of shape your getting..... You're resorting to thinly veiled insults.

Look, I'm not even a Halo fan. I don't know how many times I have to say it, but I'm not taking sides. I'm not making an argument for/against Halo or Mario or whatever. It doesn't matter what you switch Halo with, that's besides the point.

Your opinion is no more valid than the opposing side's opinion. That's all I'm saying. This isn't about being "witty" as you say. I just think it's all kind of pointless.

My point is your point had no merit and were stupid, regardless of what quotes of mine you take completely out of context, choosing not to respond to anything else. You come across as somebody that is trying to be "cool" because they aren't a fanboi and is "fair" even if the examples that are used don't hold any water for the most part. Comparing the criticisms of the Halo series to SMS vs SMG is like apples and oranges. Maybe a series like SSB or Metroid Prime would fit better, but using Mario Galaxy which appears to be extremely fresh in comparison to its predecessors is a bit ridiculous and a big stretch to be witty.  Heck the Halo series is out shined by a landslide by PC FPSs, and it wasn't even that fresh when it first came out.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Kairon
Actually, I'd be much more inclined to suggest that Devil May Cry IV won't move many units, nor MGS 4, given those two games' actually relatively low (~ 2 million?) worldwide sales.

Halo is definitely gonna move copies though. The second sold 8 million worldwide, and virtually all of that in the USA and Europe? Yeah, it'll be big.

I think Final Fantasy is about PS3's only hope to move a large amount of units.

[Kairon]

There is ONE big difference between Halo 3 and Mario Galaxies.

Mario has waggle.

[nitsu niflheim]

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Originally posted by: Kairon

And 50% of XBOX 360 owners did NOT own an XBox previously. This means that the XBox 360 will actually gain new purchasers in the future not only from its own forays into previously untapped hardcore gamers, as well as rejuvenating their past owners who owned the previous XBox but have not yet jumped onto the 360.

Add that to the inevitable christmas spending and a strong line-up, and the XBox 360 will have a pretty okay holiday season.

It's been almost 2 years now, the Xbox owners who haven't jumped to Xbox 360 already most likely won't.  The fact that they haven't is rather odd.

[Kairon]

Reason: Waiting for Halo.

Seriously, why else would you buy an XBox? ... Chronicles of Riddick?

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: nitsu niflheim
It's been almost 2 years now, the Xbox owners who haven't jumped to Xbox 360 already most likely won't.  The fact that they haven't is rather odd.

I don't know. There were a lot of casual Xbox users, and Halo does appeal to a large sum of that group from the previous generation.

My bet, though, is that the price is the biggest hurdle for a lot of the previous owners who haven't gotten on board yet.

[that Baby guy]

Seriously.  Halo 2 sold Xboxes.  The first Halo was already out, and not everyone who bought Halo 2 had Xbox Live or ordered Live at the time.  The game is a system seller, even when it already has an iteration on the platform.  It will sell 360s now, too.  To say it won't is ignorant, and whoever does refuses to believe historical fact.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: thatguy
Seriously.  Halo 2 sold Xboxes.  The first Halo was already out, and not everyone who bought Halo 2 had Xbox Live or ordered Live at the time.  The game is a system seller, even when it already has an iteration on the platform.  It will sell 360s now, too.  To say it won't is ignorant, and whoever does refuses to believe historical fact.

I have a friend who loves Halo but tries to argue that Halo is a niche game and that the owners of it are special in some way. It is kind of funny.

[that Baby guy]

Well, I'd say at least half of the owners are 'special' in a particular type of way, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that about all of them.


Now, to the topic at hand!  Sony!

Layoffs.  Massive.  Probably from money loss.  And more and more money loss.  What options does this aging gaming company have?  Do they do a labor transfer?  Outsource the people from the thigh...err...India?

[Kairon]

Sony should've just opted to move their headquarters to Manhattan Island.

[SixthAngel]

I want to get back to the topic but since I just turned on the 360 only to get three red lights I'll go back to the tangent.  Halo will push more systems but its appeal has a limit.  Mainly the 360 seems to primarily support fps already so many Halo fans and potential fans already do have the system because that is the kind of game they want.  Halo also doesn't have the same appeal as the next Mario game because while they do both have fans that follow the games Mario is an icon known outside the hardcore circles as well as not having 47 other games from the same genre already existing on the console.  The so called "lapsed gamer" (big with what the Wii is trying) already sees a familiar face with Mario when they look into buying a system again.

[Kairon]

And of course, the $400 price point will dampen it's effect. Still, this is shaping up to be an awesome holiday season and MS could drop the price point if they wanted to spur demand on even more.

[couchmonkey]

Microsoft must drop the price as far as I'm concerned.  Half of the 360 users are new, according to MS...which means that about 18-20 million Xbox owners have yet to migrate.  I don't think Halo 3 is going to sell 20 million 360s.  It is going to sell them though, no doubt.  We'll see!

Sony's layoffs: this is just par for the course in an ailing company.  Anyone following Sony knows it has been in trouble for a few years now, PS3 is just the latest failure in a string.  The question is if the layoffs turn things around or signal the beginning of even harder times.

Unfortunately, I'm betting on the harder times category, unless Blu-ray really succeeds.  I really think PS3 is a money pit.    

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Toshiba will begin selling laptops all standard-equipped with HD-DVD drives beginning in 2008.  Apparently they've also sold a GOOD number of laptops in the past 12 months (more than the ps3 managed), so they're attracting quite an audience, especially for a product that's far more useful than a consumer-unfriendly game console.

That's PRACTICAL market penetration.  Tear a new one.

[Kairon]

But will people actually BUY HD-DVDs instead of regular DVDs?