Topic: Temptation of Greed for Wii?

[nemo_83]

Some editors at 1up are saying the graphics make the Wii feel like a peripheral, thus it has to come in at around $199 or less; the buzz around the system has turned into econimically friendly to the mass market vs graphics (rather than interface vs graphics).

[getter77]

Louie:  The GC was a Purple Lunchbox.  Had it looked sleek....nobody would've pegged it as a Fisher Price dealie.  Nintendo simply wasn't thinking straight. Pricewise it was same as usual although not much of a substantial gap with its competitors...and this was when Nintendo said they WERE in fact competing.  Only the hardcore fans will hate on something for such pedantic reasons....and the core buyers of each system will buy it regardless of price, which worked well for the GC since Nin didn't care at all about expanding the market with it.  On the other hand, there are tons of people who don't understand that they've been hyped or marketed to....so image will surely be a factor this time around.  The Wii looks sleek and modern so the old hat of the GC shouldn't apply to it.

-I fail to see why Nintendo should hamstring themself because Sony decided to overprice the, apparently having a rough time, PSP.  You are pretty much comparing a fully fledged console with the express aim of appealing to non-gamers, Nintendo hardcore, and retired gamers with a massive shift in the controller paradigm vs a Sony handheld designed for the consumption of the Sony hardcore, with a nub,  to give them an inhouse alternative to buying a Nintendo product.  Unless Nintendo TOTALLY drops the ball on marketing...we're talking not even having a Wii hooked up to TV's to demonstrate here...the PSP should be another thought entirely.  Nintendo needs to keep pushing the DS in order to maintain the dominance it still has on the PSP/Sony marketing juggernaut.

Wandering: You are probably right.  Still, it can only help the odds that a game/gaming will look appealing enough for a person to try if the cost of INITIATION is set low enough to tempt CURIOUSITY.  As it is now, and has been for awhile, you have to set down a hefty chunk of change just to get your feet wet.  With any addictive product, rule number 1 is to get people hooked on the cheap...that way the little voice in their head that speaks to monetary issuesbased moreso on necessities gets just quiet enough.  Nintendo was the one spouting all the "new" not "next" generation stuff so they should follow through on it and bring gaming prices down to a level that many more people can have a chance to appreciate.  Unless there is some sort of insane technology hop in the next 5/6 years, Nintendo's next console, the HD one, will probably follow the same sort spec boost pattern that the Wii has---due to the point of diminishing returns.  Just like a PS4 might well be $800 next time around.

All IMO.  Nintendo is enjoying a brisk stroll while inexorably walking towards the edge of a cliff...all  the while pondering how best to handle that looming situation.  Sony and Microsoft are both inexorably sprinting full tilt, head to head with each other.  They figure they'll just figure something AWESOME out right before going over the edge.

[Ceric]

Even as a "Purple Lunchbox" I still think the Cube looks cooler then any of the other systems.  Out of place but cooler.  PS2 and XBox look functional but still out of place.  The slim one is a step in the ridght direction.

[couchmonkey]

I see where Ceric's logic is coming from, I've seen this kind of thing used in marketing before, but I don't really know how well it works.  The theory is a high price convinces people they're buying a "better" product.  The obvious counterexample that someone already brought up is PSP vs. DS.  The counter-counter example is the iPod, maybe?  The accessories are as expensive as heck.

I don't think comparisons to the GameCube era are that relevant anymore.  Nintendo isn't fighting the same battle it did with the GameCube, and so far the new direction has been a huge success.  Nintendo is making the rules, and as such I think Nintendo should go with a price that's quite different from the competition.  I think there's also the possibility Nintendo is still thinking about bundles and how those would affect pricing.  Judging by all that "Wii=we" and "ii=two people" nonsense, Nintendo wants to push the multiplayer aspect of the Wii, and that could mean selling two (or even more) controllers with the system.  If the controllers are expensive, this type of bundle might make a lot of sense.

One thing I agree with Ceric on is the pricing of games.  Someone at Nintendo, it was Yamauchi or Iwata, once said something like the cost of the console is like the price of admission, it's a barrier to playing the games.  That's true, but looking at how the cost of video games compares to other types of media, it seems the games themselves may be a barrier.  Seriously, I can't think of a single medium more expensive than videogames (unless you count computer software as a "medium" - I don't.)  DVD box sets of TV shows are in the same range, but those are a new phenomenon, and they don't have to overcome the barrier of people who have never watched TV or used a DVD player (well, okay, my grandparents don't have a DVD player, but they probably wouldn't be convinced to spend $50 on a show they can see for free on TV anyway).

I think it would be smart for Nintendo to offer cheaper games this generation.  I think it's going to happen, but in a more minor way than I hope: probably Nintendo will make a lot of cheaper non-gamer games.  Wii Sports is a good example, I'll be surprised if Nintendo launches that at the same price as Twighlight Princess and Metroid Prime 3.  Still, how much cheaper will it be, and will we ever see traditional games at a cheaper price?  Without waiting for the Player's Choice versions?

[getter77]

If the game market grows substantially as Nintendo hopes, price will surely go down overall at least in Nintendo's respects.  Scarcity of consumers dirve up prices just as much, if not moreso, as scarcity of supply.  See LD players for an example.

The game pricing won't likely upend any apple carts....it'll be the starting console price that'll do all the really nice damage..."the price of admission".

[Spak-Spang]

I want to know why people believe the controllers are going to be $50.00 that is suicide for what Nintendo is trying to do.

I see the controllers ranging from $30.00-45.00

Yes I know its new technology and pretty expensive...but if you are promoting multiplayer party games you can't make additional controllers be that expensive.  

I also expect that the classic controller will be around $25.00 or less.  Yes, less...perhaps even $20.00  

This will help promote the system as affordable, and help promote the idea of everyone having their own personal Wii controller system.

[Spak-Spang]

Sorry for the Double Post:

I also have to disagree that the more expensive you make something in technology the more value it appears to have.

The Gamecube did not lose any sales because it was cheaper than the competition.  Microsoft came to the plate talking about graphics and power of the system and lead everyone to believe it was the most powerful system period.  In doing so, when Nintendo didn't comment about such things it looked weak.  In reality Nintendo just didn't care about graphical numbers...but actual games.  The problem was the Gamecube was exactly the same as an X-box gameplay wise, with less graphics.  So that hurt Nintendo.

The Wii is a completely new way to play games.  It competes with Xbox 360 and PS3, but in a completely different way.  It isn't about which is more powerful like last generation.  It is competiting on gameplay difference.  Price relations will have nothing to do with what people buy.  If someone wants to play Wii type games they will buy a Wii...if they don't then they will choose either Xbox 360 or PS3...and that battle price will be a factor.

That being said...a lower price will help Wii with casual gamers, and nongamers.

If you are not already a gamer ,or any hobbist for that matter, how much money are willing to spend on something you had a little fun with?  I played a game of Disc Golf with my friend, and I enjoyed the game.  So I decided to buy some discs.  They were pretty cheap, and I ended up buying a single disc for $10.00  After I got into the game, I spent about $50.00 to get a few really nice discs to play.  However, if the game cost $25.00 a single disc or more, I would have never committed to the game.  

I also went and played a game of Golf with a friend.  I loved it more than Disc Golf, however because of the extreme price point to get into the game...and even just to play a round of Golf, I will never play golf.

Finally, the best analogy is those collectable card games, or collectable table top games.  I have played those games and really enjoyed them.  But overall they are too expensive to support.  It costs easily over $100.00 an expansion set to collect every figure...and that is just too much money.

So the question is...at what price point do you get casual people that try the Wii at a friends house or in the store to actually buy it.  Simple truth is the cheaper it is...the more likely they will buy.  

$100.00 will see greater number of people buying than at $150.00  and so on...

I hope the system is $150-$199  However, if it is more...then I want more out of the system.  $200-250 we should be getting 2 controllers and some free downloads, or at least a pack in game.  Again it is all about preceived value.

[IceCold]

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Wii Sports is a good example, I'll be surprised if Nintendo launches that at the same price as Twighlight Princess and Metroid Prime 3. Still, how much cheaper will it be, and will we ever see traditional games at a cheaper price? Without waiting for the Player's Choice versions?

I think that there will be a graduated price system, as Iwata (?) mentioned earlier. There's no doubt that the games with lower production values will carry a budget price, while the traditional games that are expensive to produce will be around the price they are now. I expect the MSRP of these games to be cheaper than those on the 360/PS3, though..

[Louieturkey]

Quote
Originally posted by: getter77Wandering: You are probably right.  Still, it can only help the odds that a game/gaming will look appealing enough for a person to try if the cost of INITIATION is set low enough to tempt CURIOUSITY.  As it is now, and has been for awhile, you have to set down a hefty chunk of change just to get your feet wet.  With any addictive product, rule number 1 is to get people hooked on the cheap...that way the little voice in their head that speaks to monetary issuesbased moreso on necessities gets just quiet enough.  Nintendo was the one spouting all the "new" not "next" generation stuff so they should follow through on it and bring gaming prices down to a level that many more people can have a chance to appreciate.  Unless there is some sort of insane technology hop in the next 5/6 years, Nintendo's next console, the HD one, will probably follow the same sort spec boost pattern that the Wii has---due to the point of diminishing returns.  Just like a PS4 might well be $800 next time around.

All IMO.  Nintendo is enjoying a brisk stroll while inexorably walking towards the edge of a cliff...all  the while pondering how best to handle that looming situation.  Sony and Microsoft are both inexorably sprinting full tilt, head to head with each other.  They figure they'll just figure something AWESOME out right before going over the edge.

Well, I don't expect non-gamers to just jump into this arena without having played the thing at a friend's house first.  So the cost of the system really doesn't matter until the second year.  It will be near impossible, regardless of price, to get non-gamers to buy the system, even if they play it for a couple minutes at a kiosk in Target.  It just won't happen.  Nintendo is betting on guerilla marketing from its loyal fans.  The fans will buy the system at launch no matter what the cost(though over $250 will definitely be pushing it).  Nintendo wants these people to invite their non-gamer friends over to play the Wii with them and maybe the non-gamer friends will like it so much, they will want to go out and buy the system.  I don't see any of this coming to fruition while the system shortages happen after launch and a few months into 07.  I see Ninteno dropping the price of the system by the end of 07 when more non-gamers will have tried the system, Nintendo will have more Brain Age/non-gamer games out to entice the non-gamers into wanting the system more, and the "Highly Advertised" price drop will get them to run to their Target or Walmart to buy the system at this point.

Non-gamers will NOT be the target at launch.  It will fail until more gamers can introduce the system to non-gamers.  It's like Nintendo says, you have to play it to understand and want it.  They won't play it until a friend asks them to try it out in their home.
 

[getter77]

Hard to say for sure on how much of a taregt non-gamers are at launch.  However, you are spot on right that guerilla marketing will be a major player in helping to boost Wii sales along with whatever else Nintendo does...becuase frankly we just don't know much of anything for sure at the moment.  Launching with a fantastic game or 2 is gonna be better than having a few only good ones after a year though.

[wandering]

Quote
Originally posted by: Louieturkey
Non-gamers will NOT be the target at launch.  It will fail until more gamers can introduce the system to non-gamers.  It's like Nintendo says, you have to play it to understand and want it.  They won't play it until a friend asks them to try it out in their home.

Yeah, I agree with this.

Also, getter77, you talk about how the Wii might be cheap compared to the competition but expensive objectively. Don't really think that's true. For one thing, non-gamers will know how the system compares to other systems and know they're getting a bargain. For another thing, have you seen how much cell-phones and ipods cost?

[getter77]

Like I said before, that applys to a portion of non-gamers...but not on the whole.  If your budget only allows you to gamble...say...$200 on some non essential...then be it 400, 600, 800, 250....ALL will rule themselves out of your consideration---every single time.  150 would allow that person a system and a game...which if they liked....they'd work into their lives somehow.

There are surely more people in the world that aren't gamers that also aren't terribly well off.  You CAN'T get the PS3 if you are not decently off or steal it.  Nintendo seems to be positing that they'll make quality videogame entertainment more affordable than the standard...and the standard has been around 200.  If they screw up and charge 300 for the thing though just so that can say "hey, we're hald the price of that PS3 that we kept saying we didn't care about and weren't competing with!"...then it'll lower the total number of possible  sales both in the short terms and the long term as console discounting takes awhile.

[clevelandst124]

Yes, people will buy more at a lower price.  Unfortunately I think the wii launches at least at $250.  It's really simple.  Nintendo is in a business.  They want to make money.  They will sell out at $250.  Not only that but the extra $50 will be all profit.  Let's say over the life of the revolution if the made a $25 profit before, they now make a $75 profit per system.

So if they sell 20 million at the old price = $25 x 20M = $500M

And if they sell 8 million at the new price = $75 x 8M = $600M

In business it often times pays to sell less.  And ultimately the wii succeeds if the movement system catches on, not based on price.  So I think $250-300 is what we'll see at launch.  Which pains me because I wanted to go ultra crazy on the virtual console.    

And no way the controllers launch less than $40.  It matches the competition which is fine for an accessory.  The people that will buy 4 controllers are the ones that line up at launch.  Not the people waiting for the price to come down.  And the gamecube controller launched at $35.  

[Jin-X]

$300 would be insane, thats the price of the 360 tard pack and $250 is really pushing it. And in the second year they would have to do a $100 price drop or the 360 could be cheaper. $200 would be the most logical price.

[getter77]

124:  Ah but remember:  The Rev will sell out at launch REGARDLESS of the price Nintendo charges for it...Just like the PS3 will despite what some may think.  The most important thing they can do is start the system cheap, but not for a loss.

Those 20 million and 8 million you posit are spot on...if this were the GC.  Remember, all those people would be the typical Nintendo gamer (there are millions of them) and multi-platform people...likely NOT all the non-gamers or retired gamers...they are the great X factor.

The movement system is only HALF of the drive for anybody other than the pre-destined sales that Nintendo is already expecting.  Price is the other one, hence all their little messages about it being mass-market, "more affordable", etc ad infinitum.  Nintendo is aiming to surpass the first videogame console in terms of growth here....likely because the ever increasing price amid the rest of their "competitors" is SHRINKING the growth of the industry....unless all those people have like 5 kids and make it a generational thing like alcoholism or something.  The  rising price of doing "the usual business' could KILL the industry in the near future....see my point about the cliff from earlier.

I'd be dismayed if the controllers were that expensve.  They simply have to make those controllers very affordable...else the whole "Wii game together" bit will be left hollow and impotent. The console is the price of admission to gaming period...controllers are the price of admission to social gaming in terms of new-comers and the returning retired.

[Ceric]

I personally beleive that the price will be $250 but no higher.  It fits.  The little extra will compensate for the Wiimote/Nunchuku bundles being sold for $30-35.  Probably $30.  Also you'll probably get 2 Wiimotes/Nunchukus with a Wii.  I don't see a pack-in game coming with it.  Demos maybe. But if you won't my complete thoughts you can dig up the thread we did on what we think should be bundled into the Wii.  I'm to tired right now but I might find it tomorrow.

[vudu]

Quote
Originally posted by: clevelandst124
In business it often times pays to sell less.  And ultimately the wii succeeds if the movement system catches on, not based on price.  So I think $250-300 is what we'll see at launch.  Which pains me because I wanted to go ultra crazy on the virtual console.

Your argument makes sense if Nintendo (and Microsoft and Sony) made the majority of their money from selling hardware.  However, since they make much more money selling software.  So it makes much more sense to sell your console at a lower price and increase your userbase.

[clevelandst124]

Yeah software plays a big part of the revenue for the revolution.  However, I don't think the systems price will affect sales for the first two years.  The first year it'll sell out.  The second year will be all about the software, and the third year the price will start affecting it.  

My argument wasn't 100% sound I just think Nintendo has proven that money drives them in the past.  Remember that worthless $20 memory card on the gamecube?  Yeah we have the cheapest system but we nickle and dime you on all the accessories.  That's why I think it's a dream to see controllers cheaper than $40.  Bottom line they are more expensive to produce than the 360 controllers which are wireless xbox 1 controllers.  And Nintendo sees them as a greater value as well.  I wouldn't be too shocked to see $50 for the controller/nunchuck.  And I seriously doubt a bundle is coming from Nintendo.

We all think price will bring in the non-gamers.  That's absolutely untrue.  Nintendo isn't starting a welfare program for homeless people.  Look at the gamecube.  The deal last Christmas was a gamecube, 2 controllers, and a game for $99.  That's an incredible deal.  What happened?  The gamecube outsells the xbox because everyone is trying to find the xbox 360.  Non-gamer doesn't mean finding the people that think gaming is too expensive.  It means creating a medium that will drive new individuals to a unique system that weren't interested before.  They are looking for the people that buy thousand dollar computers, Hundred dollar cell phones, thousand dollar tv's and sound systems.  They aren't marketing the product for someone who has trouble paying the bills.  Food or games.  Tough choice (sarcasm).  

So it sucks.  But I've already convinced myself that I'll drop $450 on the revolution at launch(includes games).  It sucks but they are in the business of making money and they've already sold me on the features.  

[wandering]

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They are looking for the people that buy...thousand dollar tv's

Well. I don't know about that one....

[getter77]

Unique system PLUS cheap price MINUS not being a lucnhbox=reason why the 99 GC didn't light up the world.  Plus, again, THE GC WASN'T DESIGNED TO EXPAND THE MARKET IN ANY WAY.  it was just a standard, "business as usual " console.  The Business as Usual consoles, like the PS3, WILL kill this industry if it continues.  Times change, gaming changes, technology slows down.

Nintendo will hopefuly learn from the nickel an dime accessories on the GC...I agree with that.  But Nintendo doesn't want people so much with thousand dollar TV's...those are the HD folk that are PS3/360 core tha'll pretty much get a Wii by default just for something different..and hopefully on the cheap.

You don't have to run a "welfare" program to do well in business...especailly GLOBAL business.  All you have to do is not go overboard with more tahn is sensible considering the nature of the industry..and that is hopefully what Nintendo does.