Author Topic: NiGHTS Revolution!  (Read 42308 times)

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Offline ThePerm

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RE: NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2006, 08:31:56 AM »
ok mysticgohan....deselect the videos when getting their file size. there should be some avi files.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2006, 08:35:12 AM »
If this is a sequel for the Revolution...Sega could just put the original on a Revolution disk.

Simple.  I don't want it for the download service, and we shouldn't expect it.  The deal never mentioned Saturn games or beyond.


Offline MysticGohan

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RE: NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2006, 08:46:50 AM »
Srry perm.. No avil files are to be seen, however there are alot of other files, SPF, CRK, ADP etc.
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Offline Knoxxville

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RE:NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2006, 08:49:08 AM »
Geez....was there even a AVI file format back then?  The FMV might be under some archaic, long forgotten format.

Offline MysticGohan

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RE: NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2006, 08:53:02 AM »
Indeed, I'm going for either the SPF or CRK, since some of them are bigger than others and mentioned Video. But it's hard to tell since they looks like note pad files heh. Must of been some anciant stuff, never seen anything like it. Although there was that one time I stuck DOA2 in my PC.... :p
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2006, 08:55:59 AM »
Saturn used those SKF formats or soemthing liek that I think. It was their special media player and was crap it was called True Motion or something like that. They used it in most of thie game sthat ahd FMV and were uncompresssed. NiGHTS had a LOT of FMV sequences and it fully filled the disk because iot was the game that pushed the Saturn toi its limits and they used every trick int he book to make it look pretty.


NiGHST was an AWESOME game and if done right will totaly rock on the REV. Its possibe thet the main reason there hasnt even been a NiGhts sequel up till now is because the controllers all sucked for it, the Saturn had a special controler made just for the game and it wasnt even that good. IF TRUE this is goiong to be the system seller for Sega fans garunteed.  
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Offline MysticGohan

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RE: NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2006, 09:03:46 AM »
Alright I did a printscreen of the files in question, this is what it looks like, also there are sub folder, they contain bitmaps.

Night's files
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Offline Dirk Temporo

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RE: NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2006, 09:44:39 AM »
I definitely don't even know what NiGHTS was. I've heard the name all over the place, but I don't know anything about it.
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Offline Hostile Creation

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RE: NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2006, 10:22:35 AM »
I'm pretty sure that picture way exceeds the limits.  Might wanna make it a link.
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Offline joedick

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RE:NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2006, 01:22:58 PM »
Have any news sites confirmed this news yet?

Offline IceCold

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RE:NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2006, 02:02:35 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
I definitely don't even know what NiGHTS was. I've heard the name all over the place, but I don't know anything about it.
You could search for some videos of it.. they wouldn't do justice to the game, but they would at least give you a taste..
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2006, 03:01:11 PM »
Ok that was it I forgot it was Cinepack that was the movie player they used I rememebr those cpk files are the video files. I thought NiGhts used the true motion but that was Sonic 3-D Blast that used that. One of the Saturns limitaions was that it didnt have hardware video playback functions like PS had. So the Cinepack files are the movie files I remeber I had a Saturn emulator that could read those once but that was ALL it could do.


Emulating the Saturn is not nescsarily an easy task even for a 'super computer' which is what our pcs are in comparison because it was a compluicated system it had 2 Video Display Proscessors (2-D graphics chips) 2 3D 32 Bit Risc chips (Dual SH-2 chips) a single Motorola 68K chip (used primarily for sound but also for transfering data form SH-2's) and a seperate system cache and 1MB system save RAM area batery backed up and also expandable.

The SH2 chips running together made for a friggin complicated set up on thier own, basicaly they were 32 bit risc processors that each ran the system, and you could program one or the other or both to run in tandem, but rarely were both chips used most of the time it was 1 SH2 and 1 or both VDPs or Both VDPs and Sh2 was used as boot up and the 68K ran the primary functions occasionaly (this was done for Sonic Jam the game ran entirely on teh Genesis chip so that emulation wasnt nescasary onbe of the major flaws with Saturn since it had the Genesis hardware built in yet they didnt include backwards compatibility)


I am not a real technical guy I haev some programming knowledge and I have read all the official docements regarding Satruns architechture and basicaly it is virtual impossible to emulate because of the set up, ps3 could theoreticaly do it simply because its multi core and could have each core emulate individual functions of the satirn where as the REV will have harder time because it will have to emulate 5 chips in stead of just 1 (Genesis, SNES and Turbo Graphix all ran variations of the same chip anyways, well TG 16 actualt ran 2 8bit cvhips but realy teh GBA coudl emulate that no problem)


As for NiGhts coming to REV, theres no way they woudl make it a remake or re-release since if they were goignto do that they woudl have already done so by now. Sega executives and the creators of NiGHts have already stated publicaly that they did not want to revisit NiGHts or re-release it.



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Offline capamerica

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RE: NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2006, 04:46:00 PM »
Why does everyone still think you can't emulate a Sega Saturn.
People it has been done. Look into Saturne or SSF.

I have Saturne running on my AMD 1.5Ghz system which only has 512MB of RAM and a 128MB videocard. And NiGHTs runs beautifully.

The Revolution will have more then enough power to do this, especially if Sega makes the emulator.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2006, 06:20:00 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: capamerica
Why does everyone still think you can't emulate a Sega Saturn.
People it has been done. Look into Saturne or SSF.

I have Saturne running on my AMD 1.5Ghz system which only has 512MB of RAM and a 128MB videocard. And NiGHTs runs beautifully.

The Revolution will have more then enough power to do this, especially if Sega makes the emulator.


I could NEVER get my Saturn emulator running. I just didn't understand it...
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2006, 08:53:07 PM »
I have both of those mulators and they are not complete, you are missing the pioint, you can easily emulate saturn its an ancient hardware after all, the problem is making it 100 percent compatible witht he original hardware, because of the architechture,. The problems was that because you had all those options a lto fo developers were experimental and tried different things. some games ran ONLY 1 Sh2 and 1 VDP, then nothing else was ran.

Other games ran BOTH VDPs and 1 SH2, others still ran ONLY the 68K and 1 or two VDPs, its because of the different combinations that were availabel emulation is near impossible, becaus eunelss you have the source code youc an not program the corect setup.

JUST having all the chips emulated isnt enough because you have to write instructions telling the emulators which chips to run, this was doen ont he start up in original Saturn. NiGhts was one fo the very few games that ran EVERYTHING at once, makig it one of the most difficult games to emulate, now you can write all the proper intructions and boot the disk normal but you have to have an emulator that can emulate both VDPs and BOTH Sh2's and the 68K all at once, and even for a pentium PC thats not an easy task, not so much for the machines but for the programmers, the LATEST emulators out for saturn still only emulate teh SH2s at 85 percent, so yo can PLAY most games witht hat but NOT all and a lot of games wont run properly. And NiGHTS doesnt have to be emulated 100 percent to look pretty because it ws MOSTLy prerendered backgrounds, you went in circles.


You have to understand how it works, even SEGA said that emulating Saturn would be a nightmare hence the reason Dreamcast wasnt backwards compatible either and it ran on a SH4 which is a step up above the SH2 so tehy ahd similar architechture except Sega chose to forgo the extra processors when DC came out.


EDIT ( for clarification think of it this way teh VDPs were 2d Processors that could be used for special effects when in 3d mode, the SH2 were risc chips that could run 3D accelaration and had sclaing and rotation capabilties, you needed one or more VDP to do texture mapping but they didnt have any fo the fancy effects that we have now, not even Z Buffering, and the Motorolo 68000 chip was teh same as Genesis, itw as 16 bit chip with very limited capabilities.) So does that make more sense? Yo would need an emulator that can emulate 2 32 bit risc chips and 2 VDP chips that had virtualy unlimited sprite lines and could handle texture mapping as well as background images. heres an example. Virtua Cop ran only 1 SH2 for rendering all the character models and ran teh 68K for painting the mackground images, that didnt even rotate or have any animations. To emulate that yowould have to write the code for a sigle Sh2 and the 68K, then Virtua Racing ran the dual SH2 but didnt even bother with the vdps at all, there were no texture mappng and the back groudns agian were drawn on the 68K, then Daytona USA rendered everything on 1 SH2 and used the second for Environments and used a single VDP for Textures and the 68K as sound chip.

What makes emulating saturn difficult is that the 68K was desgined to be a sound chip, but since Saturn had CD audio capanbilities programers coudl record soudn fiels as wav files and then play then back when needed and program the 68K as a extra graphics chip, which makes emulating it harder because the BIOS loaded Main SH2 first then IF instructiosn were there loaded the SLAVE chip, if the load up intructions werent there the Slave laid dormant and could not be called latter. This makes emulating crazy because every game was different and theres litteraly no way to test every single game to ensure they work properly, which is why so few Saturn games get ported to newer systems.




 
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Offline Kairon

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RE:NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2006, 09:01:44 PM »
Dear god, I heard the Saturn was hard to program for, but I didn't know it was suicidal!!!!

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Offline wandering

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RE: NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2006, 09:06:41 PM »
Quote

Have any news sites confirmed this news yet?

link. Aparently, famitsu is reporting, in their RUMOR section, that NiGHTS could be getting a true sequel for Revolution.

Which is a bit odd, considering the creator of the game has said he doesn't want to another NiGHTS game because the original was so perfect. But here's hoping.
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2006, 09:12:08 PM »
the saturn was a nithmare , the creators of saturn even said that only 1 i out of 100 programemrs will be abel to properly program it. Thats why the effing thing failed to take off. Thats why ports looked worse than PS when Saturn was way more powerful.  
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Offline MysticGohan

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RE: NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2006, 09:20:54 PM »
More powerful? I dunno about that ACR, last I heard as a last minute effort sega put in 3D in their console when they got word of sony's PSX, and it was one hella rushed job, The area Saturn would truely excel at was 2D. 3D was an afterthought.  
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2006, 09:27:41 PM »
you gotta knwo the whole story, it wasnt thrown in as after though,m it was rushed but they used more powerful chips. They just didnt make it easy to get all the power out of them.
Saturn was originaly supposed to run on Model 1 Hardware then they upted it to Model 2 then scrapped that desgined in favor of the Hitachi chips.  
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Offline Kairon

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RE: NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2006, 09:35:09 PM »
On an unrelated note, I heard that Yuji Naka finally made up his mind and left Sega... only to create a new studio that has close ties with Sega... is this true? And why hasn't this been splashed across all the front pages of all the gaming websites?

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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2006, 09:41:06 PM »
cuz its not true, He helped build Sega and has no intintions of retiring any time soon. Goto sega.com for all yor offical Sega news, if they dont report it then its not likely true.  
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Offline MysticGohan

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RE: NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2006, 09:46:04 PM »
hehe, or is it...? I know something you don't know Maybe Mario could tell you lol.
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Offline Michael8983

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RE: NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2006, 10:07:30 PM »
Any one want to speculate on how a Nights game would control on the REV?
I imagine pointing the remote at the screen and controlling the direction of flight by tilting the controller in the direction you want to fly. You could do flips and u-turns with ease. Imagine tilting the control upward slightly to make your Night ascend slowly into the air then quickly flicking the Rev-mote down to make him/her dive at an incredible speed. Then perhaps "drawing" a few circles in the air with the Rev-mote to do some somersaults of varying size. Basically coregraphed flight. It could be really awesome. It would certainly allow for a kind of ease and accuracy - in both the direction and speed of flight - not possible on an analog stick. The sequel would have to have courses much more difficult to make up for it.
Supposably Yuji Naki didn't want to make a sequel to Nights because he didn't think he could improve on it, but perhaps Nintendo's innovative new controller changed his mind in that regard.  

Offline Caterkiller

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RE:NiGHTS Revolution!
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2006, 10:09:09 PM »
I believe it is true that Yuji Naka has left Sonic Team. I was just discussing this about a month or so ago in another forum. It's not like it matters though, I mean what did he really do for the latest Sonic games?

Throughout the past few years, questions have been asked left and right regarding a new Nights game or a remake. And it was always replied to with something along the lines of "we think Nights is perfect and don't want to ruin the franchise with a sequal." Now then, with the new and supposedly amazing Rev controller, a sequal to Nights is now a possibility because now Naka has something truely different and unique to work with that would really fit the game.

I am very excited with the possibilty of a new Nights game. Even if this rumor is nothing more than just that, I always thought the new controller would be a great reason to start a Nights sequal.  
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