Author Topic: Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?  (Read 18613 times)

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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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RE: Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2006, 11:27:49 AM »
I enjoy both the free roaming and linear sections, myself.  SF64 was good about not leaving you clueless or with nothing to do in free-roaming areas.  Usually they were during boss battles or heavy attacks (Sector Z, Katina, Star Wolf).

Also, the revmote doesn't need to be "pointing" at the screen to work properly, I've always felt this was a reader misconception. Just using the revmote like a pilot stick, with controls similar to the analog stick on N64, would be fun.  Pointing at the screen woudl work with this setup too, since it would just be using relative rotation from a start position.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2006, 12:09:43 PM »
Star Fox is a hard game to advance in sequels.  Typically the easiest way to progress in a series is to add more stuff.  The Zelda games for example have basically just become more ambitious with each game.  It's like they say "what if we add this?" or "what if we do this?" and it usually works.  The basic game design is incredibly flexible.  Star Fox lacks this luxury because it's very arcade-like.  Arcade games benefit from streamlined gameplay.  So adding more stuff doesn't work as well.  If the game becomes too complex it loses track of what made it great to begin with.  So the "add more stuff" formula doesn't work.  Stuff can still be added.  Star Fox 64 changed the way the difficulty paths worked, added two new vehicles, and a lock-on shot.  But the changes have to remain streamlined like the game itself.  The ideas can't be overly ambitious.  They have to seem almost minor.

I've found with the best action game sequels the best new features are based more on enemy or level design than major innovation.  This includes stuff like that part in Contra 3 where you're jumping from missile to missle.  It's nothing that couldn't have been done in Contra or Super C but it's so cool it stands out.  Games like this are level based and each level should provide it's own unique excitement.  A good approach is probably to think of it like a series of action scenes in a movie, only the player gets to actually do it instead of watch a cutscene.  My favourite part of Star Fox 64 is chasing the train.  That's not really a unique take on the formula, it's just a really cool level.  They don't have to reinvent Star Fox to really make a sequel standout.  They just need some really cool level ideas, throw in some new powerups and co-op play.

After reading the Starfox 2 article on Wikipedia I'm thinking that if they're stuck for new ideas they could try using some of the ideas from this game.  Although elements apparently were taken from Star Fox 2 for Star Fox 64 there are some neat ideas that haven't been used.  The whole game design is way different for example.  If it worked out well maybe it would be worth a shot.

And for some reason I just thought that a boat level would be a good idea.  They have a ship, a tank, and a sub.  So why not a boat or have sub levels that take place on the water surface?  I'm imagining having the boat fall down a huge waterfall and having to shoot enemies as you fall and destroy tree branches and rock so you don't hit them.  Since you're going down a river there can be multiple paths in the same level.

Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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RE: Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2006, 02:03:57 PM »
Exactly, Star Fox doesn't need to be mind-boggingly new.  Launch titles often aren't as ambitious (see Luigi's Mansion) and Star Fox for Revolution could be "short" without feeling underdeveloped.  Some fresh additions and fun bosses are all it really needs.  Quality will allow it to stand out.

Did I mention Star Fox could be an excellent Revolution controller training game, like Luigi's Mansion was for those unfamiliar with dual analog?
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Offline UltimatePartyBear

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RE:Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2006, 02:20:19 PM »
I think that if Nintendo had been able to make the ideas behind Star Fox 2 work, we would have seen more of them in Star Fox 64.  It was probably overly ambitious.  If they ever do bring something like that into the Star Fox series, I hope it doesn't preclude the classic gameplay.

However, the idea of things happening while you're not there is certainly a fun one.  They could work it into the branching paths of Star Fox 64.  For example, if you take one route, you encounter a fleet of supply ships to destroy.  If you go a different route, then those ships reach their destination and bolster the forces there, so you'll have a rougher time if you go there.  Combine this idea with the branches converging at points along the way, and you have a natural difficulty progression, too.  The easy route takes you through the supply convoy, and the hard route takes you through something else, but both lead you to the planet the convoy was heading to.  They could also make it so that along a higher difficulty route, you take more steps before getting to a particular planet than you do on the easy route, giving the enemy time to prepare for your arrival, especially if you tip them off that you're coming by failing some objective on the way, like letting some enemies escape, or not destroying all the transmitters at a base (kind of like the search lights on Zoness).

I also like Spak-Spang's idea of multiple runs through the same area.  Sure, you could do it in all-range mode, but if the game forces you into a set path, the level can contain better scripted events.  Not to mention other changes, like changing the orientation on each pass.  You'd probably be in space, after all.

I think the game should use the analog stick.  With the analog stick, different vehicles could use the remote differently, in ways that suit them better.  Now, I wouldn't be too sad if the next Star Fox only had arwings in it, but the tank was pretty cool.  Chasing the train is one of my favorite parts, too.  With the analog stick controlling movement, the remote could be used to aim the tank's turret anywhere, which would definitely be an improvement.  That would work in Ian's boat level, too (I have absolutely no problem with the submarine being sacrificed to make a boat, incidentally).  In flight, moving the remote could choose targets for charged shots and nova bombs, and maybe even the Great Fox's big guns.

You could boost and brake by quickly moving the remote forward or backward, and twisting would replace the L and R buttons (or Z and R), although I don't know about barrel rolls.  Twisting twice in a row quickly enough to save yourself by rolling doesn't sound very comfortable.  A button modifier wastes a button.  Perhaps the game could be changed so that twisting always causes a barrel roll first, then leaves you leaning, but I don't like that idea, especially for the tank.  Maybe you could roll by quickly tapping the analog stick in the same direction you were leaning, Smash Bros. style, though that's not ideal, either, since you couldn't roll without moving.

I haven't accounted for all of the available buttons, so they could add a few new options to the mix, too.

Offline Kairon

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RE:Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2006, 02:44:09 PM »
This is the future! Sub's would double as boats and vice versa!

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Offline wandering

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RE: Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2006, 08:41:37 PM »
Star Fox rev would be awesome, yes. Lots of good ideas here. I'm not sure I have anything to add...I want, at some point, a free-form flight game where you use the remote and can just go anywhere, but starfox probably isn't the series for that.

Quote

I think the game should use the analog stick.

Eh. I see what you're saying, but the remote is just so perfect for movement, I think it'd be better to not complicate things with the nunchaku attachment.
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2006, 10:22:22 PM »
Star Fox should be done eventually but first I want to see some original flight and shooter games.

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Offline Bloodworth

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RE: Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2006, 02:24:19 AM »
Quote

Yeah, well, Namco did a fantastic job on the air missions in Assault...


Not really.  It wasn't until the end that they actually had a level that felt right.
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Offline Ceric

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RE: Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2006, 06:39:28 AM »
No.

Just no.

I really liked the the N64 Version.  So I be more inclined for a DS Starfox and let the console version sit a gen like with Metriod.  We saw how much stronger that made that series.
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Offline Ceric

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RE: Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2006, 07:01:25 AM »
Star Fox n64 was good because you had the direction and speed that only being on rails can give you.  

Does anyone want a free roam Nascar Game?  No because its contrary to the core of the series.

On rails and in vehicles (I liked the tank level but mostly because there is only 1 tank level I prefer the air stuff.)  I don't want to ever see Fox except in cut scenes(Maybe) and his head when they communicate because that is established.

I mean what they have been doing to the series is almost like having Mario flying a plane and gunning down koopas in half of a Super Mario Bros 3 remake.
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2006, 08:36:07 AM »
Well I will get hated (as always) for saying this but I never really liekd Star Fox, until playing Adventures. I loved that game would like to see more SF games like that. I have Sf SNES and its actualy a lot more fun now than when i first tried it, but I never did play SF 64 except when it first came out and didnt like it much. Assalt was ok I tried it ata  kiosk but havent bought yet. I wiould only consider a next gen SF if it was multiplayer and if it had  that arcade feel of the original, because after goig back and retrying it that is about all I liked for it.  
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Offline Caterkiller

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RE:Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2006, 09:44:18 AM »
I can't believe I almost forgot about SF64's multiplayer. There were only a few stages to be chosen, but the battles were 100% based on skill, and were pretty amazing to watch.  I remember if I didn't have the double lazer and my opponent was on my tail, I would fly my ship in between the arches or debre and watch as they crashed into everthing. Sumersaulting with a bomb directly into the ground was one of the greatest tricks in the world. That would make for an amazing online experience, well as long as everyones abilities are the same, im not sure if i'd want different stats on characters like Hunters and Mario Kart.

The multiplayer in Assault felt soooo slow! I didn't like the collision detection between your Arwing and the environment. In SF64 if you U turned too high against something you would do some major damage to yourself and it felt right.  Assault just did it all wrong, it felt like you couldn't crash sometimes and I hated that.

Oh and one more thing, I want the speed of Star Fox 64 to be back! Slowing the game down to get more enemies on screen was a crappy idea.  
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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2006, 12:24:12 PM »
I thought the multiplayer (2-Players) was horrible.  It pretty much went to who got the best weapons and got behind he player first.  I thought it could have used alot more work.


Offline BigJim

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RE:Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2006, 01:46:50 PM »
Does anybody else remember the cheesy and awesome Star Fox 64 Nintendo Power promotional video?

I would love to see what they could do with SF with the controller. But I agree it's difficult to advance it without opening it up to free roaming or changing it some other way. I liked Adventures, even though it was a shoehorned game. As for Assault, err, not so much.
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Offline Caterkiller

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RE:Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2006, 02:49:49 PM »
I still have my promotional video lying arund somewhere. I remember that came in the mail when I was in the 6th grade... Holy smokes that was a long time ago; I became amazingly excited that Nintendo sent me something.

You know Spak-spang, I became so good at SF64 that all the people I lived with would all team up against me and I could still take them all. These guys weren't push-overs either, they all could beat the game on Expert and they all earned every gold medal on normal. I would always put the handicap on to its lowest amount of energy and let them get both weapons befor I took a single shot. At the time I was just that much better than them.

As for 2 players, we only had 2 controllers for the longest time, and even then it seemed fair.  After I discovered not to rely on just the u-turns and sumersaults I could escape people easily, with sharp barrel roll turns.  Alot of our battles went back and forth. But it would have been more balanced if there were at least 2 of each power up scattered throughout the stages.  
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Offline Rancid Planet

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RE: Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2006, 07:44:37 PM »
While I think that a shooter for the Rev might have somewhat limited gameplay. I'd still ove to have a SF game. I just keep hoping one day they'll give me a new SF 64 quality game.

Offline UltimatePartyBear

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RE:Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2006, 10:34:21 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: wandering
Star Fox rev would be awesome, yes. Lots of good ideas here. I'm not sure I have anything to add...I want, at some point, a free-form flight game where you use the remote and can just go anywhere, but starfox probably isn't the series for that.

Quote

I think the game should use the analog stick.

Eh. I see what you're saying, but the remote is just so perfect for movement, I think it'd be better to not complicate things with the nunchaku attachment.


I say save the remote-only movement for Pilotwings.  Star Fox is about action, not flying.  It could work in Star Fox, sure, but there are problems with it.  I think someone else mentioned the problem of being able to move the remote in a way that would be impossible for an actual aircraft.  Pilotwings can deal with that by letting you lose control and crash because it's that kind of game.  Star Fox would be better off avoiding the problem completely by removing the one-to-one relationship between the remote and the arwing, and once you've done that the whole point of using the remote to control movement in Star Fox is gone, as it would be a glorified joystick.  If you're using the analog stick to move, then the remote is freed up to do other cool things, like set up cool aerobatic maneuvers.  We're used to inside loops, rolls, and Immelmann turns.  I'd like to do a Split-S, or an outside loop, or a Lazy Eight, or any of the myriad other maneuvers pilots have invented over the years.  Even Star Fox 64's controls had room for a couple more tricks, and the remote adds so many more possibilities that there probably aren't enough things that an arwing could conceivably do to use up all the combinations.  

Going with the scheme I laid out before, an Immelmann would be done by pulling the remote toward you while holding back on the stick, replicating the Star Fox 64 controls.  A Split-S would be done by pulling the remote toward you while holding forward on the stick.  What if you tipped the remote up vertically at the same time?  Or down?  Or twisted?  Or tipped and twisted?  I'm not talking about wild gestures, just changing the orientation of the remote.

Sure, with the remote you could do all of those maneuvers manually, but I don't want to mess with that level of finesse in Star Fox.  I want to shoot stuff.  I'll happily try to master a Standing Eight in Pilotwings instead.

Offline Kairon

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RE:Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2006, 03:11:32 PM »
Wow, that's a great idea Partybear!

Instead of reinventing the wheel with revmote steering, if we can use the analog stick to steer, then the revmote becomes valuable as an additional flight-movement mechanic... it could be used to execute barrel roll gestures, wing-orientation, and all sorts of fancy aerial maneuvers. For example, the F-22 can keep moving forward slowly even though the plane's nose is tilted upwards almost 75 or so degrees, an amazing feat due to thrust vectoring technology. Think of all the wonderful maneuvers, tricks, and techniques that the Arwing can perform if given a bigger bag of tricks just like that!

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Offline Nosferat2

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RE: Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2006, 06:35:20 PM »
NO! Let it die with the rest of nintendos dead systems. FFCC cab go along with it.

Offline Infernal Monkey

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RE:Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2006, 03:57:27 AM »
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Originally posted by: Professional 666
Another StarFox? NUP, DON'T WANT IT

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Offline EasyCure

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RE:Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2006, 07:06:35 AM »
after those last two titles i almost forgot about starfox, until this thread. I only played five seconds of adventure and i wasnt put off by it really, just wasnt interested. on the auhter hand i did play ST Assault and although i knew it wasnt a true starfox game, it was still enjoyable to some degree. who didnt like that level in corneria where you're standing on star wolfs wing trying to take out sgt. pepper? that was awesome in my book.
i do agree that straying too far from the formula however just wont work for a next gen SF game.
I like all the ideas of different paths within a single level. who remembers that level in the original starfox where you fly INTO a few of the enemies giant ships and avoid all the traps and come out th eother end? what if you take that sort of scenario and all a few different corridors to go down, where you have to find a certain part of the ship to destry and fly out, but the entrance was the only exact. what if you blew up like a reactor or something and you have to escape the ship before it ultimately explodes, so you do a U-turn and go back the way you came, but because the ship is falling out of orbit your path isnt restricted to simply going straight forward but as the ship tilts as it falls you go up and down. say you applied that to a submarine leven and the ship you're escaping turns completely upside down, changing the way you navigate your way out.
online multiplayer would be awesome too. ever since SF64 i wanted multiplayer to be co-op and not just VS battles. i want to have my wingmen  help me out in a level. i want two on the ground/sea and two in the sky. what if one of those ships you have to fly into to destry can be severly damaged from the outside by one of your wingmen and thus as YOU'RE inside of it you have to escape prematurely. co-op gameplay would be, in my own opinion, very much welcomed to the series.
ian was right in his post to say that though the formula didnt change much from the first two titles, what made ST64 stand out was the formula used within the levels. i too loved the landmaster/train level and getting to completely decimate that train. every level should be different. his boat idea was great too.
i picture something more like this. start off underwater but take a certain type of damage while trying to complete a mission objective could cause you to have to resurface, and thus branching off to a seperate part of a level otherwise unable to be reached. then yes, i could totally picture the submarine floating on the surface of the water as its forced down a math where you only have the minimilast control of left and right, maybe even an option of "ducking" for a second or two as a dodge. from there you have other paths the leven can branch off to and go down Ians waterfall and shoot enemies/obstacles as you descend.
now add co-op to that. atleast two of you start off underwater, either different points on the same map working towards the same destination, or start together but take different paths later on. one of you gets damaged and needs to resurface, the other proceeds submerged. two arwings in the sky are taking out air-based enemies as well as taking out obstacles for your surfaced wingman. say you both have to shoot at a boulder at the sime time or receive heavy damage to your ship. maybe even help you take out a few mines scattered in the water.
meanwhile the still submerged submarine (i cant remember the name of the sub!!) has to complete his objectives. if he doesnt take out the enemy ship its able to shoot surface to air missiles which can harm your wingmen in the arwings.
in the end you reach a boss battle that could be free-roam like many of the bossbattles in ST64 were. depending on whether or not certain objectives were taking care of, the difficulty increases. say you shot out anchors for a hidden weapon underwater with your sub, now its surfaced and the weapon concentrates most fire to the arwings as it protects itself. underwater you can shoot out a few weakpoints that will reveal the weakpoint for your buddies on the surface. OR...if you fail at your underwater mission you would have to fight the boss underwater while the arwings shoot certain weakpoints that reveal the main weakpoint underwater for the sub to fight.

all that in one level. is it impossible? i doubt it. will it happen? i hope so. thats only one level i could think up, and i got myself excited at the possibilities. anywone else have an idea for a crazy level? single or co-op, i wanna hear your thoughts!
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Offline Requiem

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RE: Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2006, 02:06:13 PM »
I got one...

Controlling the Arwing with the NRC:

Pointing the nose of the NRC, points the nose of the Arwing and also allows you to turn. Moving the NRC up, down, left and right moves the Arwing across the screen in a similiar fashion.

Now imagine Chasing 4 badass enemies as you navigate your way through a canyon. The walls start to crumble as your shooting down your enemies, adding obstacles that you must avoid. A huge rock begins to decend....you must BOOST TO GET THROUGH, but also dive below the boulder, but also be aware not to touch the running river water or you WILL DIE!

ahem...

As you continue, the canyon starts to turn widly! Left, then right, then a half circle left, then right! More obstacles approach as you continue to kill those bastards your chasing. Some of the canyon sticks out,or some of it branches across, making you dodge it accordingly.

I think you get the jist of it.
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Offline EasyCure

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RE:Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2006, 08:38:43 AM »
i've been thinking for awhile now that it would be possible to release a base attachment for the revolution controller that you could use to dock it into a straight up position and use it as a pilot stick for flight simulators. i thought it would be cool but i know it would then make the controller look sparkling innovationy if more and more types or attachments were used. it would probably already be possible to simply hold the revmore in that fashion and it could then be calibrated so movements from that position would be translated into movements for the arwing or whatever other.
-the B trigger would be used for normal shotes (hold to charge)
-A button for bombs
-d-pad up/down could be used for u-turns and flips
-doubletappin the revmote to the left and right would produce barrel rolls or if that would affect precision movement, d-pad left/right could replace it
- twisting the control left/right would tilt it

thats all you would need to play it really.
i wish i could come up with some more cool level designs like my last post but im fresh out of ideas.

your canyon run sounds like it would be cool too requiem. the thought of destructable levels would add a new twist to the game. like you shoot a charged shot while not locked on to an enemy and it hits the side of the canyon so that rocks come crumbling down, or trees that get knocked over. even peices or starships could come flying at you if you and your team destry one, rather thatn simply falling off the screen. it could even work so that you open up newer paths on your mission making every stage replayable for something new everytime.  
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Offline Hostile Creation

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RE: Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2006, 09:04:21 AM »
"NO! Let it die with the rest of nintendos dead systems. FFCC cab go along with it."

The dead systems that people will be downloading on their virtual console?
Starfox 64 is one of my favorite games ever.  This franchise still has incredible potential, they just need to do something with it.  Like, Nintendo.  Not Rare or Namco, who suck.
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Offline thejeek

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RE:Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev?
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2006, 09:40:38 AM »
I wonder if Starfox for the SNES will be available on the virtual console thing? It might be tricky to port because it had special hardware in the cartridge but I really loved that game.