Author Topic: Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev? (Read 18643 times)

TheYoungerPlumber · « **on:** April 12, 2006, 11:14:55 PM »

I've just played through Star Fox 64 twice (different paths) and MAN do I want one for Revolution now. And not some game where you prance about, a real, Nintendo-developed Star Fox game with "shooting, shooting and more shooting," to quote SF (SNES) director Katsuya Eguchi. The N64 was such an epic, balanced game that did so many things right.... And what with Factor 5 no longer in Nintendo's camp and a new controller perfect for shooting games, isn't it about time they took Star Fox seriously again?

Kairon · « **Reply #1 on:** April 12, 2006, 11:18:14 PM »

Star Fox is a corridor shooter, very arcade, very dated genre.

Still, what with the Revolution controller, the old will become new, the dead will rise from their graves, and the apocalypse shall descend on us all.

I mean...uh...

I'd love for someone to make a StarFox game that's a REAL Starfox game and not try to plunk on other types of gameplay just because it's the latest trend. Instead, they should go back, re-examine the Star Fox formula, and let new types of gameplay paradigms grow out of the original, pure, starfox formula.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

thejeek · « **Reply #2 on:** April 12, 2006, 11:23:34 PM »

Quote
Star Fox is a corridor shooter, very arcade, very dated genre.

It may be a dated genre but I love Star Fox on the SNES and I'd love to see more games like it on modern hardware. It's got no pimps and whores though, so it ain't gonna happen...

I dunno whether it'd work on the Revolution controller though - the 'natural' way to fly a spaceship for me is with a joystick.

Kairon · « **Reply #3 on:** April 12, 2006, 11:28:18 PM »

I've always envisioned using the Revolution controller to "feel" your way through 3D space.

I mean, it's so intuitive. Up is up, down is down. The precision and level of exacting control you can use is astounding. Instead of having to translate movements into a joystiq, you can "fly" the controller around a meteor as if the meteor itself was moving towards you in 3D space.

Oh, and I didn't mean to imply that the gameplay of corridor shooters was dated, but that the feature set was. Oh woe is me! What third party out there shall take a risk to create a game without free-roaming fully huge interactive open-ended environments?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

thejeek · « **Reply #4 on:** April 12, 2006, 11:37:43 PM »

Quote
I've always envisioned using the Revolution controller to "feel" your way through 3D space.

This potentially has the problem with the TV being fixed in space and the direction your remote points in getting out of step with where your TV is as was discussed in the Red Steel thread. It's the same general problem of wanting to point your ship at stuff accurately in order to shoot: you wanna have the ability to aim directly at stuff on the screen, yet still steer the ship beyond the boundary of the screen. Hopefully there will be some standard way of overcoming this.

I think one way would be to steer the ship with the nunchucku and have independant aim via the remote.

Quote
What third party out there shall take a risk to create a game without free-roaming fully huge interactive open-ended environments?

Maybe if Nintendo reduce third party licencing costs and Rev development costs really are lower, we might see developers starting to take risks again - especially if left-field stuff actually sells.

[EDIT: speling]

Kairon · « **Reply #5 on:** April 13, 2006, 12:04:37 AM »

You misunderstand me thejeek. In a corridor shooter the gamespace is almost exactly just what the screen displays. And with a vehicle based shooter, unlike an FPS, aiming is not based on where the player points, but where the vehicle points.

This means that your controller basically becomes the space ship and if you steer it right a little, then the ship steers right a little as well. If you veer your controller/ship to the right by a large amount, you're telling the game to hit the afterburners cause you're making a tight turn. Then you reorient the ship to the middle of the screen by briging your own controller to the middle of your gamespace.

Nowhere in this process do we have the game change viewpoint, so there is no chance the your precius zero-point will get mis-aligned. The controller and space ship will remain perfectly synced throughout.

Well, there is one way they could get un-synced. This would be something like an obviously physically impossible lateral jerk of the controller, telling the space ship to do something that it isn't capable of doing, like flying straight to the side very quickly without easing or turning in that direction.

But that could in fact be a very powerful game dynamic. You could exploit the disconnect between the ship and the controller by actually disconnecting control and giving feedback to the player that way.

Stun the ship and run electrical sparks over it, as if there was a technical malfunction. Rumble the controller violently. Give a warning sound. Now the player knows that they've done something physically impossible for their ship and need to reinsert control.
Now through a cursor on the screen showing the real controller's current relationship with the in-game spaceship. The player, to re-establish control after shorting out their own systems, will move the Rev controller (and the cursor, which is only available in this situation) until it once again matches the position of the ship and the ship will "snap" back into control... hopefully with enough time left to steer clear of disaster.

Someone please hire me to make games. /cry

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

thejeek · « **Reply #6 on:** April 13, 2006, 12:53:30 AM »

Ahh got you - It's been a while since I played Star Fox on the SNES (my SNES went to the other side of the world with a friend a few years ago and and they both liked it so much they stayed there...). I remember now that you were pretty constrained to follow a preset path and if you strayed out of it you were forced back (arrows at the edge of the screen or something).

I think I'm gonna have to wait and see how the remote works with various control schemes first hand or at least see videos of people using the controller combined with game footage - I'm sure it will end up intuitive and accurate, I'm just having a job getting my head around it without a practical demonstration.

[EDIT: clarify incoherent sentence]

Kairon · « **Reply #7 on:** April 13, 2006, 02:18:40 AM »

I recommend you follow TYP's example thejeek and play through StarFox 64..TWICE!

God...that game is pure magic. Say what you will about Nintendo's performance during the N64's lifetime, I mark the begin and end of my personal "golden age" with N64 games.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

thejeek · « **Reply #8 on:** April 13, 2006, 05:24:44 AM »

I'm afraid I never had an N64 (I hang my head in shame) - at first I couldn't afford one and I was still getting a lot out of the SNES, and by the time I'd saved enough the next gen hype had started and the supply of games had started to dry up I so I held onto my savings and skipped the N64 going straight to the GC.

They actually have a couple of N64s second hand in my local Gamestation but if I buy one now, I'll have a hard time persuading my girlfriend to let me buy a Revolution later this year. (They also have a Vectrex that I'm strangely attracted to but it's like 200 quid!)

[EDIT: spullung]

Kairon · « **Reply #9 on:** April 13, 2006, 05:29:47 AM »

Smart man, what with the Rev's virtual console and all.

But..uh oh...looks like you'll have to choose between the Rev and the Vectrex... &<

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Requiem · « **Reply #10 on:** April 13, 2006, 05:43:42 AM »

Imagine Starfox spliced with F-zero (the level where you dodge boulders as you race the samurai)....

Badass right?!

This game has huge POTENTIAL!

thejeek · « **Reply #11 on:** April 13, 2006, 05:49:13 AM »

Quote
But..uh oh...looks like you'll have to choose between the Rev and the Vectrex... &<

It's OK - I have those urges under control - the new pills help a lot...

Mario · « **Reply #12 on:** April 13, 2006, 06:03:29 AM »

I'm looking forward to Star Fox on Rev... Starfox 64 (Lylat Wars), that is. Never played it, so it's going to be one of my first downloads.

Caterkiller · « **Reply #13 on:** April 13, 2006, 06:18:29 AM »

I found it very interesting that Star Fox 64 is one of Miyamoto's favorite games of his own creation. This generation saw Star Fox get loaned out to 2 developers, and besides making a better relationship with Namco, the only reason why Nintendo didn't develop the titles itself was probably because they did the best they possibly could with the first 3D title, and felt it might be a good idea to let another developer handle it. With the new controller, there is no way Nintendo will allow anyone else to potentialy screw up Star Fox for the Revolution. There is no doubt in my mind that it will be developed by Nintendo this time around.

As for controlling Star Fox with the new controller, this has to be the easiest conversion there is aside from any FPS. Aim and fly with the one handed remote, Shoot with A, tilt Right/Left to tilt the ship, double tilt right/left for a barrel roll, B trigger for bombs, and the D-pad can be used in any dumber of ways to summer sault and U-Turn.
I hope it turns out to be a one handed game.

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2006, 06:24:19 AM »

I would love a new version of this game. And Star Fox doesn't have to be an onrails Shooter.

The free roam levels from Star Fox 64 were very engaging...and I would love to see those levels again...along with more advanced versions of the onrails shooter.

The biggest problem with Star Fox is you always progress forwards, which gives the environment and the levels a very linear static feel.

I would love the onrail levels to include massive battles ships that require additional passes to defeat, and levels that seem to double back on itself and follow a more cinematic approach to onrail shooting, instead of a just push forward to the boss approach.

As well, the free roam levels would be great to experience again. What Star Fox 64 did great was limit the area you fought in within the free roaming to keep you constantly engaged in fierce battles.

If they could coordinate all of that and make 4 unique onrail paths so that you can play multiplayer CO-Op throughout the game that would be very impressive and really quite enjoyable experience.

UltimatePartyBear · « **Reply #15 on:** April 13, 2006, 07:08:17 AM »

I find that Star Fox 64 improves with age. When it was new, I found the dreadful instrument sounds in the music and hideous inflating beachball explosions annoying. It wasn't until I came back to the game later that I was able to overlook the flaws in its presentation because it was old. I also enjoyed the action a heck of a lot more when I gave some thought to the sheer amount of carnage I was causing, especially in Area 6. Or in Sector Y, where you form the spear head of a rallying charge, leading the Cornerian fleet through the enemy forces. Or MacBeth, which is chock full of groundshaking explosions as you harass the train, tearing it apart car by car.

There should definitely be a true Revolution sequel. I wouldn't mind seeing more free-roaming levels, Rogue Leader style, but the corridor levels have to stay the focus. There's just no way to get the same level of excitement out of a mission when you can come around for another pass. Multiple paths would definitely be nice, as would non-straight paths, and this series is just begging for multiplayer co-op.

I'd also enjoy it if the game left a bit less of the carnage I mentioned to the imagination. If I break the ranks of the enemy fleet, I want to see my allies take advantage of it, or if I critically damage a large ship, it should destruct spectacularly, and not just puff out smoke as it slowly drifts off.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #16 on:** April 13, 2006, 08:29:31 AM »

The first two Star Fox games are brilliant. So I would love to see another REAL Star Fox game. I think the ideal feature to add is co-op. The game features four wingmen so why is it only one player? With the Rev's online capabilities we should be able to get three buddies and play through the whole game four players. The game is short by design so it would work perfectly.

Though I kind of don't trust Nintendo to do another Star Fox and if they're not going to do it right I'd rather not get it at all. The way Star Fox was treated last gen suggests to me that Nintendo doesn't care enough about the franchise. They shoehorned it into Rare's game to try to attract sales and then farmed it off to Namco. Star Fox is a prime example of Nintendo's recent attitude that their franchises are all that matter and that it doesn't matter what game is attacted to it provided the familiar face is there to attract sales.

Nintendo thinks we buy their games because of the franchises. They no longer realize that we buy their games because of the gameplay those franchises represent. I don't think Nintendo realizes that Star Fox Armada was broken in the first place. It has a Fox McCloud and "Star Fox" on the cover so it's good enough. They think a Star Fox fan is someone who likes Fox McCloud. So I don't trust them because they don't know why any of us are Star Fox fans in the first place. They don't know why Star Fox 64 is awesome and Star Fox Armada sucks.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #17 on:** April 13, 2006, 08:36:05 AM »

Yeah, well, Namco did a fantastic job on the air missions in Assault...If they just fill the next game with those it'll be perfect...

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #18 on:** April 13, 2006, 08:53:01 AM »

Geez Ian stop being so negative all the time about EVERYTHING.

Yes, I will agree that the last two versions of Star Fox weren't as good. But, hey Nintendo was trying to do something YOU wanted them to do. Create new franchises and branch out...and build 3rd party relations.

Nintendo did that by allowing other developers to attempt different franchises. The Rare game wasn't great because Rare isn't great, and I am sure they knew the relationship with Nintendo was over and didn't try that hard.

The Namco game tried to do something different. It wasn't pure Star Fox, and that hurt the game...but at least Nintendo didn't try to just make a rehash sequel...which you always complain about, but now you are asking for with Star Fox, because otherwise the gameplay won't be what you desire. Geez, make up your mind. Armada succeeded in many elements...however failed in others. The biggest problem with Armada and what really the original Star Fox games do well(and it is very hard to do) is to create a story within each level as the action is going on. Star Fox works, because you are living the story as the fighting happens. You try to save your friends during the chaos of war and what not.

I don't think it is fair for you to backhand Nintendo for trying to achieve more games for us to play and develop new talent and third party relations...and yet if Nintendo wouldn't have done that you would have complained about less games and such.

You hardly say anything positive...and its frustrating. The only thing that makes it bearable is that you are very intellgent and you make strong arguements. You are right often, but since you hardly balance your view by acknowledging the positives Nintendo did this generation, and last...that you just come across wrong.

I know you love Nintendo and you believe in what Nintendo stands for...or used to stand for in gaming. But you are so hypercritical you come across as someone that hates Nintendo.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #19 on:** April 13, 2006, 09:21:41 AM »

Another StarFox? NUP, DON'T WANT IT

Give Krystal a legitimate stick-swinging, fur-covered action adventure, with no stupid DogMan McCloud.

NOW WE'RE TALKIN'

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #20 on:** April 13, 2006, 09:38:20 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
NOW WE'RE YIFFIN'

Fixed.

Yes, I think the SF franchise badly needs to be redeemed after Nintendo handed it off to two 3rd parties, receiving questionable results in return.

Artimus · « **Reply #21 on:** April 13, 2006, 10:36:52 AM »

Star Fox is the one Nintendo series (off the top of my head) that has never successfully progressed. SF64 was, indeed, a hit, but the GCN version was horribly received.

This is a series that REALLY needs to be taken to its bare bones and rethought. I really, really like the idea of it being used as a basis for a massive free-roaming game. Not like a GTA in space, but like the Rogue Squadron games only a heck of a lot bigger. Something along the lines of an open galaxy. Freedom can be put to such great effect, and Star Fox seems an ideal setting for an open-universe space-shooter. Because they can't really improve the basic Star Fox formula anymore...and just adding foot levels or new vehicles is stupid.

Michael8983 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 13, 2006, 10:38:10 AM »

I know I'm going to be crucified for this but I actually wouldn't mind it if Namco got another shot at a Starfox title on the Revolution.
Sure it did a lot wrong with Armada, but it also did a lot right. The potential is there. If the developers have learned from their mistakes and perhaps with a little more involvement with Nintendo, I think they could make a truly great Starfox title.

Kairon · « **Reply #23 on:** April 13, 2006, 10:47:52 AM »

I'm of the opinion that Star Fox should NOT go free-roaming.

Star Fox 64 was able to throw near constant action at us because it was a set corridor path. If you make it free-roaming then the game becomes more navigational-strategic and we lose that sense of immediacy and velocity and pure pure action.

...

I'll ponder how to take Star Fox back to formula and re-invent the gameplay while remaining true to its concept...

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #24 on:** April 13, 2006, 11:05:34 AM »

Kairon: You have a point there. If you did Onrails and instead of a straight pass in an environment, have it be several different passes. Like Doubling back on a big ship and stuff...and perhaps even integrate Boss battles more into the environment and original battle instead of completely seperating them out it could be much better.

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Author Topic: Anyone else really want Star Fox Rev? (Read 18643 times)