Topic: IGN Promises Rev Specs: Evening 3/29/06

[mantidor]

people's responses to this are just hilarious, I'll wait for a screenshot and some real footage, because this really doesnt mean crap, whether is a joke or not.  

[BranDonk Kong]

This sucks. Any way you slice it it's probably bad for Nintendo. Sure a PowerPC 729MhzCPU is leaps and bounds faster than an Intel, but these specs are really damning for people expecting ports across all 3 consoles, with special Revolution controls in the process. The ports would have to be dumbed down significantly, unless Nintendo can pull off something technologically incredible. Developers are going to want to be able to do more than they can with the Rev hardware...especially the 88MB RAM. At least it'll be fun.  

[BranDonk Kong]

Nintendo needs to release some screenshots or videos ASAP. In my above post I'm not saying I'm losing faith in Nintendo, I still plan on getting one and think the games will be amazing, but I can't see the majority of Xbox360 and PS3 owners picking up a Revolution instead, due to the specs alone. Yes I know RE4 and StarFox Adventures were visual masterpieces, and since the Revolution probably is about 3 times as powerful as the Gamecube (729Mhz compared to 485Mhz isn't as simple as 729-485=244Mhz increase) I'm sure there will be some stunning games, but when there's a game on all 3 consoles, people who own a Rev and an Xbox360 or PS3 will most likely choose the prettier version of the game.

[Ceric]

To Start off...

In regards to what eljefe originally said just watch the original Star Wars Trilogy and then the New Star Wars Trilogy.  Thats an example of someone going from limits to no limits and everyone can agree the original ones were better.  In fact you might argue that about the Original Star Wars Trilogy versus the Redo's.

Now...

2 words "Specialized Harware"

Follow-up...

I'm sure that the architecture was designed to eliminate bottle necks and won't have very much a to b time.  Nintendo has a knack for picking the right hardware to get the job that they want done done well.  I thought Ati mentioned that Hollywood would be more in line with a generation above I thought that was on there site but I can't find it.  For copyright and licensing reasons  I would assume that IBM and ATI wouldn't allow for the use of the same technology in the chips.

[jasonditz]

But the limitations in, for instance, the N64, weren't artificially placed there. The cartridge lacked space, but got around the slow load times that plagued it's rivals. This slow CPU speed isn't an answer to some other problem, it's just cheaper. But even then, and it's hard to say this for sure without more details, it seems really hard to believe that at this stage of technological development, IBM can make 728 Mhz chips any cheaper than they can make a 1.3 Ghz chip.

[Strell]

SPECATON?  BIG SECRET LEFT IN REV?

Hooray!  

They could put actual freakin' chips in there and have a faster machine.  I'm talking Doritos.  But only the EXTREME ones.

[trip1eX]

IT's not April Fools man.  I mean these are the specs IGN last xmas.  And Peri Kaplan said long ago 2-3x more powerful.  Are these specs really a shock now?  They fit right with what Nintendo was saying.  

[Pale]

It is entirely possible that these "100%" specs IGN has aren't from a final dev kit.  It is also entirely possible Nintendo hasn't finalized the specs yet.  We already know that the Rev Dev kits started out as controllers to plug into GCN dev kits.

People need to stop taking Matt's "inside info" with such confidence and wait to hear it from the horse's mouth before you complain... or better yet, wait to actually see how the games look before you complain.  This is the same pissing contest that has been going on in the PC industry for years.

How can we as fans, on one hand, say that the 360 doesn't look good enough to be called next gen, then on the other hand claim that because these supposed specs are better than a gcn but supposedly not as good as a 360, they suck?

So, in one thread, let's all say that the 360 doesn't look that much better than the cube, then in another thread say that the rev will suck if it isn't as fancy as the 360?

Blah.  Stop worrying so much and enjoy some video games.  If you will truly enjoy MS or Sony's approach more, then buy that system over the Rev.  That's the best way to tell Nintendo what you want.  If you aren't ready to go that far then doesn't that prove that Nintendo is making the right decisions?

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
How can we as fans, on one hand, say that the 360 doesn't look good enough to be called next gen, then on the other hand claim that because these supposed specs are better than a gcn but supposedly not as good as a 360, they suck?

Because this is more than just how something will look. This is more about what you can and can't do with the system. That you can't have tons of enemies running around the screen as you battle in a war without framerate issues. That you can't have tons of human controlled characters moving around, using the wi-fi connection, on screen at once.

This is more about performance and less about graphics, and what it means to companies who want to port their 360 and PS3 made games over to the system and how many sacrifices they will pick to make in order to make the port process easier.

I was fine that the system was going to be much weaker than the PS3 or 360, but I wasn't expecting it to be comparable to a Xbox spec wise. Perhaps that was foolish on my part, but for a next generation system I don't think it's asking too much.

Really, it's all speculation at this point how Revolution games will look, but Nintendo now has the dilemmia of having to show it off ASAP before these revealed specs can do any more damage from the internet crowd that is quickly spreading things such as "Revolution will just be a Xbox with a new controller, save your money." And, again, that's not the type of comments you want to hear as it convinces some to not even try the system and see if they will like the new controller.

[RiskyChris]

I don't want crappy PS3 and 360 ports.  Viva la revolucion!

[jasonditz]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pale

How can we as fans, on one hand, say that the 360 doesn't look good enough to be called next gen, then on the other hand claim that because these supposed specs are better than a gcn but supposedly not as good as a 360, they suck?

I for one don't care what the competition is doing in this regard, but if you look at the progression from NES to SNES, SNES to N64, or N64 to Gamecube, there seemed to be a much bigger jump than there is in this case.

[denjet78]

Anyone who says they're not going to buy a REV because of these so-called "specs" had already made up their mind that they weren't going to buy one and are just using this as an excuse to support that decision.

I still don't understand how people can forget last generations "spec wars":

XBox - 300 MILLION PPS (or whatever other crazy number it was that they threw out)
PS2 - 76 MILLION PPS
GC - 12 million pps

Now which system actually delivered their hardware numbers? Which system actually surpased their hardware numbers? Nintendo has already proven that specs mean NOTHING. I don't care who you know or how in-the-know you think you are. Did anyone honestly believe that the GC, with it's limited specs, would ever be able to come anywhere near the XBox? And there are people out there who still think it's weaker than the PS2 with all these idiotic arguments! All you're doing is helping to spread missinformation. Anyone wonder why Nintendo isn't playing the spec game? Because of idiots like you!

In the end, Nintendo is giving us a completely new way to play games, not just a better looking version of what's already out there. That, in the end, will drive my purchasing decision. If the games look like they came straight off an N64... well, maybe not that bad but I don't need all the whiz-bangs in order to get into my games. Does no one have an imagination anymore? Do you not realize that these are FANTASY worlds?

No wonder I spend more time emulating than I do playing current generation software. Almost everything sucks now because all the effort is going into making the graphics look just that much better. And for what? Smaller game worlds? Less play time? You're not going to get your massive worlds that you're all whining about. As graphics become more and more expensive to produce, there will be less and less of them in games simply because developers won't be able to afford the resources needed for them. Or they'll just continue to cut into the game-play departments budget. At some point Sony or MS will come out with a console that will be able to completely and acurately represent any object virtually. It'll take a dozen people 5 years to render a table with all the lighting and shading and physics and such attached to it, but it'll be perfect!

...

I don't even know why I'm trying.

No one ever understands what I'm talking about.

[BigJim]

I've been looking around and also trying to get some professional feedback on this...

The most uproar is , ironically, coming from Nintendo fans. Most other people are just interested in the controller and feel that hardware isn't everything. It's really exposing the unusual love/hate relationship Nintendo fans have with Nintendo...

I also got feedback from someone that does game logic (he knowz secretz!!!!!11) Game logic is the deep game code stuff, btw. He says games are 25% hardware and 75% how you use it. If Revolution is anything like GameCube's architecture (which it sounds like it is) it's going to be considerably faster than Xbox.

I trust his input, and he knows more than probably any of us, so I say don't be over dramatic with the Xbox comparisons. We heard it'd be better than Xbox months ago, and it's still true.  

[KDR_11k]

Jason: Yep, it got changed. Someone compared it with the mirrordot cache and it was definitely changed, probably because they received many a complaint about that idiocy.

Kaplan said 2-3 times, this isn't even 2 times. Matt claims the think is directly related to the Flipper so it'd use an ancient architecture, he also said the Ati chip doesn't have shaders. If that were true the stats would be directly comparable to the GC and not be anywhere close to 2-3 times.

However, things like multiple but identical RAMs suggest that these specs are taken from a Devkit that was cobbled together from modified GC hardware, not some internal document that specifies the final specs for the hardware ordered. I'm not sure but they may even be the specs of a GC devkit with extra cycles and RAM to handle debugging.

[Ian Sane]

"How can we as fans, on one hand, say that the 360 doesn't look good enough to be called next gen, then on the other hand claim that because these supposed specs are better than a gcn but supposedly not as good as a 360, they suck?"

Isn't that logical conclusion?  If the 360 doesn't look good enough then logically something with significantly lower specs than the 360 would be even worse.

"People need to stop taking Matt's 'inside info' with such confidence and wait to hear it from the horse's mouth before you complain"

In this case though we'll probalby never hear it from the horse's mouth.  Nintendo doesn't seem to want to make the specs public.  If you want this info then websites getting "scoops" from devs is the only source.  This is partially why I thought it was a mistake for Nintendo to talk about never revealing the specs.  They were going to come out somehow and it would have been better if Nintendo themselves revealed them so that they could make sure we all had correct info and they could balance it out with screens and movies to show that the graphics will be fine regardless.  Though that in itself is optimism.  I've assumed Nintendo would be able to demonstrate that they don't need high end specs to have comparable looking games but they actually might not.

The whole Rev secrecy in general has been weird.  They showed us this weird controller but have never given us any actual demonstration of it or shown us any games or given any indication that it will work with existing game genres.  That seems just as borderline insane as being all hush-hush about specs that everyone knows aren't up to snuff (there's no need to hide them otherwise) only to have them released publicly by another source.  Or to publicly announce missing features like HD as some of the first concrete info.

I have found it difficult to be excited about the Rev because the only indication that it will be any good is because Nintendo says it will.  It's like all the potentially negative sh!t is out in the open and any of the stuff that will actually create interest is locked in a vault.

There are good things we know about too like the download service and free online.  But, geez, Nintendo.  Just give me a reason to buy a Rev besides your word.  Afterall if you're trying to sell me something your opinion is biased anyway.

[jasonditz]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"How can we as fans, on one hand, say that the 360 doesn't look good enough to be called next gen, then on the other hand claim that because these supposed specs are better than a gcn but supposedly not as good as a 360, they suck?"

Isn't that logical conclusion?  If the 360 doesn't look good enough then logically something with significantly lower specs than the 360 would be even worse.

Or is it just that all these specs are starting to mean less and less to the final product. The 360 is lightyears ahead of the original Xbox in terms of processing power, but when it comes to games, they look incrementally better. Nothing I've seen so far out of the 360 seems like a great leap forward. Nothing I've seen looks like it would leave RE4 in the dust.

The same was not true last generation. Pretty EOL N64 games like Perfect Dark and LoZ: MM were not even in the ballpark of stuff like Pikmin visually.

So I dunno... maybe it is all we really need. Maybe those gaudy specs of the 360 and PS3 are going to be mostly wasted. We know the Rev will be capable of RE4 and TP calibur graphics and then some...  

[Ian Sane]

"The most uproar is , ironically, coming from Nintendo fans. Most other people are just interested in the controller and feel that hardware isn't everything. It's really exposing the unusual love/hate relationship Nintendo fans have with Nintendo..."

I think this is more due to the fact that Nintendo fans actually care about Nintendo and no one else does.  A lot of people just see a Nintendo console as something to play Nintendo franchise games on.  There are a lot of people that bought a Cube just to play Mario games but also owned a PS2 or Xbox as their "main" console.  They were pretty satisified.  However Nintendo fans who bought a Cube as their main console were justifiably a little disappointed.

I lurk at the Penny Arcade forums and typically they have a lot of optimism regarding the Rev.  But most of them are going to buy another console.  It doesn't matter if the Rev is incapable of playing traditional games or will always have the worst version of third party games because those people are only going to buy the odd Nintendo game every couple of months and download old games while their PS3 or Xbox 360 suits their main gaming needs.

When you're a Nintendo fan you don't want to buy another console.  That changes everything.  That means any problems with the Rev are something you have to live with for the next five years.

One group is content with Nintendo in a distant last place with months going by with no good games released.  The other is not.  That's the difference.  

[Pale]

I guess my argument is conclusional if your conclusion is that you aren't going to buy any of the next gen systems because they all suck...

[jasonditz]

The more I think about the ports issue, the more I wonder if it's a even really a problem. Ports seem to historically float towards the weakest system's specs whether that system is in the lead in market share or not. The SNES and even the Atari Jaguar got a lot of Genesis ports... the early PS1 was getting a lot of Sega CD and 3DO ports... the Dreamcast was getting a lot of PS1 ports.  And how many marginal 3rd party DS games seem to be warmed over GBA ports with a little touch screen functionality? Hell, during the Cube's launch window we saw a handful of Dreamcast ports. Once the Dreamcast was completely gone, all the "we support all three consoles" games for the Cube and Xbox were PS2 ports.

I can't offhand think of a system that was the low end and got vastly inferior ports. Companies like EA tend to develop to the weakest system then tarted out the same version with a little extra eye candy for the other systems. Look at stuff like Gun and NHL 2k6 on the Xbox 360... it's basically prettied up Xbox 1 games that were themselves originally prettied up PS2 games.

My guess is they'll either use the Rev as a basis for a game, or they won't do a Rev version at all. That might be scary in the beginning, but if the Rev does wind up getting too big a market share to ignore, it might be the PS3 and Xbox 360 owners complaining "why did I spend $400 on this system when most of the games are just Rev ports with a little extra eye candy and   worse controls?"

[iMoron]

I for one, will buy the Revolution... If I have the money by day one, I will buy it right away!

............................................................

I have notice that all to many are still refering to SDTV instead of EDTV in many comments about the Revolution's power... Progresive 480 resolution is EDTV... Enhance Definition TV. There are a bunch of Digital TV sets that display EDTV and not HDTV... But to many are been fooled by the HighDef... and many think that Digital TV sets are the same as HDTV sets, but they are actualy EDTV...

With that said... What the heck... I am economicaly BROKE... econnommy is bad... it will take me more than 3 years to improve my status... because of various reasons... So am happy I won't miss good gaming because I can't buy that HDTV someone thinks I need... The news lady looks good wile showing the weather on my TV set... will HDTV let me get real with her... NO... so my SDTV is good and if I manage I will get a better TV, one that outputs 480p (EDTV) and a Revolution...

This specs are much better than the GAMECUBE's ... so we will have better than the GC games... it is not like if the SNES had horib games because the GENESIS had higher clock speed...

Actually... if specs were so important, computergames would rule... But... wheres that industry? It is not dead, but it is not growing as much as the PC market itself... and in most part because those who are exclusive to PC gaming and puch graphics tend to just push graphics... And... most of the Gaming PC hardware gets somewhat wasted... no one of them PC game makers have gotten the juce out of the last graphic card... always jumping to the next big thin... Thoug consoles are diferent I feel games are meant to be played... and if a good gaming experience comes in blak and white then be it, do I care for the most realistic crapfest with bland substance, NO...

Even I, as a developer wanabe, have been pondering my ideas... as long as the gameplay is involving, graphics are secondary... even a text adventure would be enyoiable... And I tell you, no one can make better graphics than an Interactive Fiction (text adventure)... NO ONE...

Power Me Silly! Bring on the GAMES!

[SixthAngel]

Why do I care what the specs are?  All I care about are the words 2-3 times as powerful.  I'm inclined to believe Nintendo when they say this unlike Sony or Microsoft.  That seems like pretty large upgrade to me.  I am also surpised that everyone is talking about how surprised they are by this announcement because it doesn't seem like anything has really changed.  It just seems to be a bunch of people who build pc's trying to compare the specs to gaming specific device.  The graphics are not the technologically best but the controls are, the upgrade has just been pushed to a different part of the system.

[Dirk Temporo]

Matt's an idiot. What the hell is this?

"This is an unfortunate eventuality, and also one that stems mostly from a mentality that insists Nintendo is competing with Microsoft and Sony, which it isn't."

I'm sorry to break it to you Matt, but no matter what you, Iwata, Miyamoto, or Reggie say, Revolution WILL compete with MS and Sony. You cannot stop that. They are all home game consoles, therefore, they will compete.

And then he goes on to talk about how IGN is almost 100% reliable at delivering breaking news. Well Matt, last I checked, the last "breaking news" you delivered about the Rev specs was that it was going to be about three times as powerful as the Gamecube. Oops, looks like you contradicted yourself.

I really don't get it. If those numbers turn out to be true, regardless of the architecture, it's basically an Xbox. Nobody's going to buy it except those of us who are loyal to Nintendo because, well, they already HAVE an Xbox.

AND GODDAMN IT! WHY THE HELL DOESN'T IGN EVER NAME ITS SOURCES?!

[RiskyChris]

It's basically an xbox if you claim to have a basic understanding of hardware architecture.

Which you don't.

Which I don't.

Which means neither of us can make the claim that is is an xbox.

But you know... my AMD 4200+ dual core processor clocks in at 2.2GHz, which I bought 6 months ago for ~$500.  I really got ripped off buying a 2.2GHz CPU then, eh?  Why not spend the same money and get an Intel 3.8GHz CPU?

Right.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I'm not really that concerned about all these so called "Nintendo fans" leaving Rev for the other consoles, history has shown time and time again that people overreact about something first, then slowly push it to the back fo their mind. Once E3 comes around, all things will be new again, and if Nintendo can show what the games can look like then perception will change again. With the Rev's launch so far off, along with PS3, only the last 5 or so months will matter when it comes to buying descisions.

[Magik]

Well, if IGN did name those developers that gave the info, those developers will get in trouble by Nintendo by breaking NDA's and they will most likely get dropped from 3rd party support, which is probably the last thing that needs to happen when it comes to 3rd party support.