Topic: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer

[Fro]

I think it's definitely time to expand the Metroid universe and explore gameplay that's not just "oh no, Samus has lost all her items, now find them so you can get to where the metroids are and kill them"  That formula is played out.  I'm glad to see Retro wants to break out of that.

I want to be Samus and accept bounty hunting missions.  I want to visit Space Stations, get information and buy equipment upgrades.  I want to be able to get in Samus's spaceship and fly around.  Some vehicles (well-done of course), for sections of the game would be great as well.

Something like HL2 with NPCs who talk to you while you're still in a first person perspective would be great.

There's a way to do all that while still keeping true to the spirit of the original games.

[Ian Sane]

"Single player games lacking story are like running on a treadmill: if the puzzles, monsters and challenges are just there for the sole sake of the player overcoming them with no pretense of motivation, then why bother?"

Well I don't think anyone is suggesting to not have a story outright.  I just personally feel that I don't need much of a background story for motivation beyond something very basic.

Here's my idea of good game story:

'You are Argrim, the last of the warrior race of the Shinok.  The grand wizard Thulsa-Savage has discovered the Wand of Wisdom and has used his new found power to overthrow the king and dominate over the lands of Rehm.  You must come forth from your home in the caves and travel across Rehm to find the seven Crystals of Courage.  Only when all seven Crystals are formed together can you gain the power needed to defeat Thulsa-Savage.  Go forth for Rehm is counting on you!"

That's pretty generic but for me that would be enough provided the adventure between was entertaining.  There's a basic plot and you would encounter interesting enemies along the way and see strange locales but as a narrative it's pretty weak.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Fro
I want to be Samus and accept bounty hunting missions.  I want to visit Space Stations, get information and buy equipment upgrades.  I want to be able to get in Samus's spaceship and fly around.  Some vehicles (well-done of course), for sections of the game would be great as well.

Holy CRAP that would rule...

"As Samus Aran, the infamous bounty hunter, you must track down your target through any violent and extreme means necessary:

-Enjoy slaughtering innocent alien bystanders who know nothing of your bounty but unfortunately happened to be standing between you and those who do!

-Torture captured alien thugs for information, with a torture chamber which can be improved through the purchase of upgrades!

-Dead or alive? It's all up to the contractor who put the bounty on their heads in the first place, but within an inch of their life is STILL technically live!"

In all seriousness, a game which combined detective work with action sequences set in the Metroid universe would be just about the greatest thing ever.

[zakkiel]

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I asked if you could name some movies which rope you in the same way. I can name a few, but I've still yet to have anything top some of the games I've played.

But I've already said twice that games could conceivably rope you in in a way movies or books can't. That's not how you measure the worth of the story. To get a sense of how strong a story is, we should just ask "Could this story succeed in anything but a game?" My answer is definitely no, at least not the stories of good games. n any medium that relied on story alone to keep your attention, game stories would fail. They work in video games because there's so much else going on besides story.

[Shecky]

Without reading the whole thread (clearly to be digressed off topic after 7 pages), one point I'd like to mention...

I think it's good to note (and thus recognize) some of the changes MP2 make over MP to benefit the experience so that they're not reverted in further sequels.

For example, one major plus of MP2 over MP (contains end game snipits):


Metroid Prime had a very frustrating segments of flip the visor/weapon.  In particular the end boss and the visor/weapon madness that accompanied it.  MP2 was much better in this regard... employing the visors in battle, but never in a way that was frustrating.

[Galford]

Smash Brother, you're version of Metroid was already made.  Except it was called GTA3.

Fro, I do like the traveling to other space stations/planets bit.

[Hostile Creation]

"No, I'm not. I know that because I've spent time looking."

You have never read a book, attended a play, or watched a movie, have you?  Games lack so much that can be found in these: complex characters (very few games have them), symbolism (can't think of any game, offhand, that utilized any metaphor or deeper storytelling techniques), social or political commentary, and more.  I've yet to find a game that rivals something like Hamlet or 1984 or Catcher in the Rye in terms of sheer depth and meaning (though I have played games that rival the genius, just in terms of game design rather than story, which is what is important to a game).  And I'll be the first to enjoy and appreciate and praise a story that doesn't necessarily have "deeper meaning", but even most books and movies that lack this have superior stories.
I'm not saying a game is incapable of this.  I'm merely saying they seldom, if ever (I cannot think of an example), bother to make a complex and meaningful story.

Ian is right about game narratives.  Most people interested in telling a narrative story go toward writing or something, rather than gaming; those mediums are better suited for it.  I work on creative writing and film, and I really like games and would like to make them, but I realize that games are, above all, about game design.  So I stick to what I'm good at, which is narrative.
Stories in games are basically people who make games giving an actual narrative their best shot.  Some games pull it off really well, because really talented game designers can do that.  But their true skill lies in game design, not storytelling.

[Sir_Stabbalot]

It would be a dramatic change from the Metroid formula if you could dictate the story by your actions. But, it probably wouldn't be unwelcome and it would add in a lot of freedom for the player. I'm not talking The Elder Scrolls kind of freedom where you can go anywhere and do anything almost literally (trust me, I own Morrowind on PC and with mods you can), but a good bit of freedom. I'd love to see that.

[trip1eX]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: trip1eX
You're going to find better stories elsewhere.  

No, I'm not. I know that because I've spent time looking.

Furthermore, in case this fact somehow slipped by everyone, I'm stating that a game can pull you into its plot to a greater extent than any movie or book if the game can personally involve the player, making them feel like a part of the story.

Single player games lacking story are like running on a treadmill: if the puzzles, monsters and challenges are just there for the sole sake of the player overcoming them with no pretense of motivation, then why bother?

I look forward to TP because I know it WILL be a game rich with story, and I often question whether or not Link will die at the end of the game because, from what I hear, this is supposed to be a prequel to WW, and as we know from the intro of WW, the hero disappeared and did not return when Ganon came back to claim Hyrule.

Well you haven't spent anytime looking for good stories if you think videogames are where stories are at.   But hey some folks like the stories in porn movies so to each their own.

The motivation for playing games is being the hero.  Who doesn't dream of  being a hero?  

I don't think Zelda is a game rich with story.  Altho I do think it's rich with atmosphere and feeling.  It's a perfect videogame story.  It's fairly vague.  It's a basic save the world story.  IT also is mostly told thru a 1st person point of view.      And the satisfaction of Zelda: Wind Waker for me was being the one to solve the puzzles and defeat the monsters  and help save the world.  If the story was the main purpose I'd go watch the Hobbit or something.
It doesn't take much to tap into my desire to help people.  

Anyway Zelda is different from say Eternal Darkness because in the latter you were really playing to see how the story unfolds in the cutscenes.  There's a bit of a disconnect there.  ON the contrary I didn't play Zelda to see what's going to happen to so and so.  I played it to successly help out so and so and ultimately find a way to save the world.

I think Metroid Prime had about as much story as a Zelda did tho yeah there's almost zero npcs in the game.  That's because it's a mostly 'solitary' type of story.  The lone bounty hunter sent to  a ravaged world in deep space by herself to track a bad guy and in turn help save the world or whatever the story is.  

So I don't think ZElda:TP supports your case much.  I think it's more of an example of the type of 1st person vague story game I enjoy.  








 

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Galford
Smash Brother, you're version of Metroid was already made.  Except it was called GTA3.

Umm, I WAS kidding about the violence parts...

But I think actually having Samus hunt some bounties instead of just toting the title would be a good idea. You know, something to pay the bills. Track down some intergalactic criminals and bring them in for a handsome reward, that sort of thing.

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You have never read a book, attended a play, or watched a movie, have you?

If you're not going to read my posts, I'm not going to bother reading yours, either.

For the LAST time: it's the interactive element of the story which I enjoy. When they let me jump on stage and break up the murder scene in Othello, then I'll give credence to the theory. And I've done more theater than likely anyone at PGC.

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I think Metroid Prime had about as much story as a Zelda did tho yeah there's almost zero npcs in the game. That's because it's a mostly 'solitary' type of story. The lone bounty hunter sent to a ravaged world in deep space by herself to track a bad guy and in turn help save the world or whatever the story is.

Umm, what?

Link is having this adventure unfold right before his eyes. Samus is an archaeologist by comparison, reading up on facts about the dead and stories of all this space pirate activity which you never actually see happen. Where are these space pirate researchers? Where are these mining crews? I'd like to see some types of space pirates which turn tail and run at the sight of you. God knows, they should.

I don't think Zelda and Metroid should be compared on the basis of storyline, considering how Zelda could actually elicit tears with some of its cutscenes. The story in Metroid is there, sure, but you're basically just reading it, and it's optional. I don't think the comparison can be made.

[Jonnyboy117]

Well, it's obvious that some of you guys are extremely interested in story elements of video games and specifically how they could or should (or not) be fused into the Metroid series.  But I think this discussion has gotten a bit testy and is basically devolving into semantics and other dead end arguments.