Author Topic: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer  (Read 35207 times)

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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« on: February 19, 2006, 08:26:19 PM »
I posted this at GAF and realized I should share it with my own forum buddies as well, since I have never released most of this info outside of the PGC staff.  It comes from a fantastic conversation I had with Bryan Walker at E3 2005.  He is a Producer for the Prime series.  This was a few hours after the MP3 teaser was shown for the first time.

My conversation was long, and it was nearly a year ago, so I'll summarize and paraphrase.

Walker's comments to me on the direction of the series:
- Multiplayer in Echoes was a fun experiment, partially successful. If they do multiplayer again, it will be something completely different.
- Worried about complaints of Echoes being too difficult, particularly the Boost Ball guardian and a sometimes unhelpful hint system.
- In serious internal discussions of how to develop Samus as a character, which will ultimately determine whether space battles, bounty hunts, etc. are added to the series.
- Looking for more ways to use third-person view, after the success of Screw Attack.
- The MP3 teaser was made in a matter of days and was not originally intended to be shown at E3. It was an internal demo only. If Retro had known the teaser would be shown to the press and public, they would have done it differently (no details given).

My feedback to him:
- When asked to rate Samus's morality on a scale of 1-10, 1 being Boba Fett and 10 being Luke Skywalker (I'm not kidding, he used Star Wars characters), I answered "Han Solo", explaining that Samus puts up a front of greed (as a bounty hunter) but is actually motivated by pure intentions.
- The controls could feel less cumbersome if Samus had movement systems such as Speed Boost and Spring Ball, and if the turning speed was tuned up (he replied that it was slowed to appease Japanese tastes).
- Upgrades should change how the game is played, if only slightly. Avoid upgrades that act like glorified keys to open special doors. Avoid actual keys entirely. Players would rather find a way to reach a high ledge than find an otherwise useless visor to open a specially colored door.
- Potentially cool abilities like the grapple beam are wasted because they require predetermined situations to be used at all. Abilities like Screw Attack are best because they can be used anywhere, optional uses can be found, and they can still unlock new areas and move the game forward.

I'm pulling these from memory, so if I remember something else, I'll add it later. Hope I did Metroid fans justice with this feedback to an extremely influential guy.
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Offline wandering

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2006, 08:35:14 PM »
Oh, fantastic. All of those responses make me happy. It looks like they're really pushing the series forward.

I agree with all of your feedback as well, except perhaps the bit about turning speed....I wouldn't really want metroid to feel like Timesplitters.
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Offline BiLdItUp1

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2006, 08:35:50 PM »
That's some pretty cool info, Jonny - but were you muzzled or something? e32k5 is long gone.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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RE:Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2006, 08:41:25 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: BiLdItUp1
That's some pretty cool info, Jonny - but were you muzzled or something? e32k5 is long gone.


It was an off-the-record conversation at a party.  (That's how I got to talk to him for over an hour...this was no supervised interview.)  I think it's been long enough that I can share this information publicly, especially since he gave only the tiniest concrete details on MP3.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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RE:Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2006, 08:45:46 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: wandering
I agree with all of your feedback as well, except perhaps the bit about turning speed....I wouldn't really want metroid to feel like Timesplitters.


I wouldn't either.  I do want Samus to feel more like she does in the 2D games, instead of like a walking tank.  It's a power suit, not a mech.  Hitting the sweet spot is more difficult in three dimensions, but I think they've missed the mark in the first two games.  The pacing would be more acceptable if you had the option of playing more of the game as the morph ball, not just the specially designed tunnels.  Since the morph ball has slow and limited jumping, and it can't open most doors, it's usually not an efficient way to move around the map.  Spring ball could fix that, as well as changing the way beam doors work (so you only have to shoot them once with the designated beam, and they become blue doors thereafter).
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Offline Mario

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2006, 09:24:35 PM »
Awesome stuff!
Quote

- Worried about complaints of Echoes being too difficult, particularly the Boost Ball guardian and a sometimes unhelpful hint system.

NO! I love the hard difficulty! I can see how it would turn some people off though, so I think they could have made the first play through of MP2 a bit easier, but kept the hard mode really hard, for gamers who enjoy a challenge. Nobody has any right to complain about a "hard mode" being too hard.

I want LESS HINTS too. Well, less hints of the obvious type, subtle clues that aren't immediately apparent are cool.

Quote

(he replied that it was slowed to appease Japanese tastes)

Wow... that's interesting, I would have thought it was slower because of the games emphasis on exploration rather than action. I thought the pacing of the Prime games was perfect, and I can't really see how the old 2D games were much faster (besides Fusion...). Faster walking would have hurt the atmosphere a bit for me, as I enjoyed examining the awesome environments while playing.

This game has been off my radar recently.. i'm getting hyped for it again now! It's going to be really interesting how they make use of the new controller, and even if the Revolutions graphical power isn't as high as PS3 or 360, i'm REALLY looking forward to seeing next gen Retro Studios detail.

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2006, 09:44:22 PM »
I've completely disabled the hint system in MP2 because it was so annoying to be told everything ahead of time in MP1. But yes, I found the boost guardian too hard. Mostly because it's hard to see where you can go to avoid his attacks. Never played the game further than that.

Not sure if faster movement should be in there, that'd create problems with the look system and since moving faster will be a requirement in the boss fights then that could end up disorienting.

Were those key-only items only in MP2 (as I said I didn't play past the boost guardian)? Except for the artifacts I don't seem to remember anything in MP that didn't have other uses as well.

The grapple was always limited in use, some enemies could be hurt with it but usually you could only use it to attach to special "attach grapple here" blocks.

Offline Dirk Temporo

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RE:Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2006, 09:53:27 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
When asked to rate Samus's morality on a scale of 1-10, 1 being Boba Fett and 10 being Luke Skywalker


I take offense to that. Boba Fett is more like a three or a four. Jabba the Hutt would be a one. And Luke Skywalker would be closer to a seven.

...

That's not what this thread is about, is it?
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Offline ThePerm

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RE:Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2006, 11:40:34 PM »
i dided several times on the boost gaurdian, but..once i figured it out it was freaking easy...but i was so worried about dominating i didnt get a chance to scan em.
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2006, 11:49:08 PM »
Multiplayer:  vehicles could help, the revmote will surly help, and any mention of spring ball is good news.

I can sympathize with the people who felt Prime 2 too dificult, but with the revmote things will go smoother.  I wouldn't be upset if part 3 was easier to get into; what I want though is a greater sense of AI (or lack there of) in characters like in Halo.

Samus I feel is more a bounty hunter than a starfighter, but vehicular options during the game can be fun; once again, I point to Halo as evidence.  But if the vehicular sequences were like say, StarFox Adventures, count me out.  I'd rather think of the vehicle in gameplay the same way it is thought of in GTA or a horse in Zelda.  Back to bounty hunting; it would be interesting to do some actual bounty hunting, and I would figure Samus might have a few hunters after bounties on her head.

The third person view in my opinion should still offer up all the controls of first person (though auto aim would likely get used more in third person), but the revmote could be toggled to allow you to do special melee and stealth moves when in third person.  A sword would be nice in the game.  Jumping would be easier in third person.  Samus definately needs to be faster on foot (the revmote should solve turning speeds) and a rocketpack upgrade near the end of the game could be fun.  Or you could just snatch them from dead enemies like you take an enemies gun in Halo.  The catch would be you eventually run out of fuel, the pack slows you down when on foot, and you can't jump so high when carrying the pack.

"Potentially cool abilities like the grapple beam are wasted because they require predetermined situations to be used at all."  

I think the grapple beam should either be included into Samus' arm canon arsenal or should be a type of electric gauntlet you attain; anyways, it should be used anytime you want.  One should be able to grab enemies and throw them, pull in power ups, and generally grab any environment and swing from it.  I could see players grabbing pirates and beating other pirates over and over with the dead pirate's body from a distance using the remote.  Or you could torture an enemy shocking them repeatedly until they give up information.


Edit:  I tried to be short but since I failed I'm going to share some of my ideas for the next Prime.  I want to use the mic to not only talk to in game characters and to other players (coop or team deathmatch), I want an echo canon that generates a beam according to the sound you create.  The pitch, volume, key, note, rhythm, etc. will affect color, shape, size, strength, accuracy, reach, etc. of the beam.  

Stealth cloaks specific to the visor technologies of the particular enemy you are facing.  This would play out best in death match where pirate, marine, and other characters other than Samus will feature different hubs with unique visor set ups.  So maybe you're invisible to the naked eye, but your pirate buddies have heat vision available.  Or you think you are safe in the dark, the only one who can see, but behold the other bounty hunter has green night vision.  There definately need to be more alien creatures with unique technologies in the next Prime.  When playing through the first prime I kept thinking about what the pirate saw, because there was such an emphasis on Samus' hub and visors.  It all made me think of Predator.  

Also, what about remote controlling the rockets, even sticking them in enemies, and blowing them up when you feel like it (like when they run to their friends for help).

And I think it would look cool to have a beam with a rotating barrel.
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Offline blackfootsteps

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RE:Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2006, 12:04:50 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ThePerm
i dided several times on the boost gaurdian, but..once i figured it out it was freaking easy...but i was so worried about dominating i didnt get a chance to scan em.


Wow, same thing here. After my fifth attempt for some reason I didn't scan even though I had for every other go. When I beat it and realized, I was devo. Didn't retry, my win was probably luck!
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Offline Mario

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2006, 12:43:54 AM »
If anyone at Nintendo is reading this thread, please skip nemos post. The first part, at least.

Vehicles and GTA elements? Samus is not Jak, and this isn't Halo, it's Metroid.

Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2006, 02:46:19 AM »
- When asked to rate Samus's morality on a scale of 1-10, 1 being Boba Fett and 10 being Luke Skywalker (I'm not kidding, he used Star Wars characters), I answered "Han Solo", explaining that Samus puts up a front of greed (as a bounty hunter) but is actually motivated by pure intentions.

What?  Proof of Samus putting up a front, please...
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2006, 04:22:01 AM »
She goes to Aether on a bounty mission for hire and ends up saving the world at the request of U-Mos.    The GF soldiers are already dead, so her original mission is void.  Yes, she did lose some of her equipment and wants to retrieve it, but she goes much farther than that to help the Luminoth.
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Offline stevey

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2006, 04:29:42 AM »
"Worried about complaints of Echoes being too difficult, particularly the Boost Ball guardian"

Boost ball guardian is easy once you figure out the patter and I love the hardness of mp2.  
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2006, 04:31:58 AM »
That explains the pure intentions bit, which I'm not arguing...Putting up a front implies acting as if nothing matters but the money, which has never been shown in the games thus far...
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Offline Strell

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2006, 04:33:42 AM »
Samus has never, ever appeared greedy to me at all.  A bounty hunter innately implies she's getting paid for her work, but at the same time there's always this pang of regret and slight fear in her demeanor.  Not enough to make her scared, but enough to insert a tiny fringe of "I hate how I'm the only one who can do this" mentality.  It's like she knows she is needed, but wants there to be another way.  Plus she's emotionally invested in some of the missions (re: baby Metroid), and that sort of thing wears a person down after a while.  But it's slight, subtle, hardly there but definitely there.  But we've never seen evidence (to my knowledge) of her demanding money, thinking about the rewards, etc.  She just knows she's got a job to do and gets out there and does it.

In all reality, though, she's hardcore.  I believe Tycho said it best: "She's a bona fide bad-ass - she doesn't call her mom, and she doesn't apologize for sh*t."
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2006, 05:02:09 AM »
Nemo: Think a bit about the gameplay impact of your ideas, please. Grappling everywhere makes the player too mobile and would create severe limits for level design i you don't want to risk the player swinging over everything. Rocket packs would make jumping puzzles trivial. Melee and stealth were never Samus's style and the latter would make sure that I'd never buy another Metroid game again. They just don't belong into a Metroid game, that stealth section in Zero Mission was bad enough. And remember, any advantage you give the player has to be used by the gameplay so you have to use that advantage, otherwise it becomes too easy when you start using the advantage.

Bill: If she didn't act different in public her job description would be "knight and defender of all that is good", not "bounty hunter".

Offline ThePerm

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2006, 06:23:52 AM »
yeah, she's only ever been refered to as bounty hunter,  rather then throwing her into just the situation she is in, they could have an  introductor sequence where she walks through a city looking for jobs.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2006, 07:18:33 AM »
As much as I loved the first one, I haven't finished MP2 because the sheer amount of backtracking required is mind-numbing. Yeah, the boost guardian was tough, but doable.

Basically, every time I see a door which I know I cannot open and will need to return to later, it diminishes my desire to play the game. MP1's backtracking was tolerable but it seems to have increased tenfold in MP2, making the game equal parts gameplay and backtracking.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2006, 07:26:27 AM »
Well, it's Metroid. Of course it has lots of backtracking.

Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2006, 07:56:44 AM »
Backtracking >>>>>>>>> Linear

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Offline Ceric

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RE:Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2006, 07:59:08 AM »
I'll admit I haven't read this in it's entirety but, so far my experiences.  I do like the hints.  That's why I like these better then Super Metroid, actually I like Fusion more for the same reason.  It's infuriating for me to have to backtrack to the very start and some excure part of the beginning of the game.  So I like the main part being helpful.  I mean it's a smart suit.  Also I feel that if you have different modes they should add something to the game.  I hate playing through a game and then the only thing I get out of hard mode is the same game but harder.  I want it to expand the game in some way.  Actually I like it to have more story.  Tie up somethings that could have been left out of the easier version.  Letting those areas make it more difficult.  So you get the complete game as a reward for getting to the very hard mode.
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Offline Hostile Creation

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2006, 08:35:30 AM »
I loved both of the Metroid Prime games, and everything said seems like very good news to me.
I don't mind the relatively slow pace, nor the difficulty, but I wouldn't mind seeing a new approach.  The new approach to multiplayer sounds like it could have awesome potential.
I cannot wait to play this game, I love Metroid.  I'm also interested in seeing how they deal with the story, the last part of the Prime (phazon) trilogy.  I hope it involves the phazon more than the second (like the first), although I enjoyed Prime 2's story.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2006, 08:47:54 AM »
Overall I actually found MP2 easier than the first game.  I did have a few problems that Retro should take into account.

- Samus moves too slow.  There are times where an enemy is behind me and I want to turn around and kill them and I can't do it quick enough to avoid taking damage.  It's something they have to tinker with and really test to find the right speed.

- The stupid key hunt at the end.  Metroid Prime is not a short game.  There is no need to tack on two hours of crap to make the game longer.  No one enjoys that time anyway so it's not like anyone would miss it if it wasn't there.  If they feel the need to add something like that make it another area to explore or something cool like that.  In Super Metroid the assumption at the start of the game is that Ridley is the last boss.  But when you beat him you still have more to do.  That's fun and it's a nice surprise.  Having to collect useless junk to kill more time isn't.

- I'd like it if scanning saved automatically.  I try to get a perfect scan record and it's very annoying when I die and have to rescan everything I've done since the save point over again.  This includes rescanning the boss.  It's just a feature I would like included.  It can even be temporary in that it's stored only until I save again or turn the game off.  So if I turn the game off without resaving I have to do it again but if I'm just repeatedly trying to beat a boss I don't.

- Growlers or whatever they're called.  In Metroid enemies respawn.  This can be really annoying in some games but in Metroid there's a trick that makes it work.  Usually the first time you meet an enemy he's hard and intimidating.  But then when you get some more beams and items and such he becomes easier.  So later on when you're backtracking you're all like "screw you sucka!  I've grown more powerful since the last time we met" and then you school him with your new beam.  These enemies I found never got easier.  They were harder then some bosses to begin with and never became easier.  And that made going back to any area with them frustrating.

- Expectations to do something I was either not "trained" to do or the game design just doesn't compliment.  This relates to two bosses.  The first is the spider ball boss.  This boss required mad skills with using the boost in halfpipes.  The problem is I sucked at half-pipes because there was not really any need for me to be good at it prior to that point and thus I never practiced.  Suddenly I meet this boss and it's like a whole new game.  All my Metroid Prime skills don't mean crap.  That kind of sucks and makes the game much harder for no reason.  The second boss where this issue bothered me was the Ing Queen (or whatever its name was).  That boss required me to look up at things from above.  I'm required to do this with a game system designed so that I never have to look up.  Looking up in Metroid Prime is incredibly awkward and difficult and now I was required to fight the game to overcome this obstacle.  I never beat Metroid Prime 2 because of this.  I just got tired of fighting the game.

Overall though they've made two amazing games.  There's just, as always, things that can be improved.

Oh yes and DON'T TURN METROID INTO A FIRST PERSON SHOOTER! Ignore everyone who suggests this.