Topic: Smash bros!!!

[PaLaDiN]

Yeah, SSB was one of the first games announced for this thing, there's no doubt the controller defines the game and vice versa.

[Pale]

Hmm...  you may have a point.... you are only starting to convince me about the possibility that the wand will only be used for movement.

The game will not work if you use the wand for attacks.  Well it wouldn't work as it works now.  It would go from a tournament level multi player game, to a fun romp full of random attacking.

[thenintendorevolution]

I have layed out a Control Scheme that shows you can make every single move in SSBM with just the "remote". And I didn't even touch the D-pad.  

[Dirk Temporo]

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Originally posted by: thenintendorevolution
I have layed out a Control Scheme that shows you can make every single in SSBM with just the "remote". And I didn't even touch the D-pad.

I just read the thing about your mom and copying and pasting. That would drive me absolutely batsh!t insane. I'd like, yell at her.

[wandering]

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Fixed. Seriously. If you honestly think the smash attacks are unintuitive, I'm completely confused. Would you rather have special attacks and combos be up, down, punch, special, block, block, up?

No. And I love Smash Bros the way it is. But I think it is time for a change.

Way back when I held ssb tourneys at my school. Five or six people showed up. Then, when I held a Mario Kart 64 tourney, it was ridiculously popular.

Also, when I try to explain SSB to people they just don't get it. They don't get the distinction between moving and 'tapping' the control stick, much less how to 'tap' the control stick in a certain direction and press a certain button at the same time with precise timing.

So, I'm not sure why gesturing to perform moves would be bad thing, or why that wouldn't work any less well than gesturing with an analog stick.

Imagine this: You move with the analogue stick. You hold the b button and move the pointer controller quickly either up, down, left, or right to perform a smash attack. Z1 would jump, Z2 would raise your shield, A would perform standard attacks, and the d-pad or select would grab [edit: and then you'd gesture to throw. Oh yes.]. Very similiar to Smash's old style, while still being more intuitive and more fun.

(as for the using-gyros-to-move-idea, I think that could be cool, or it could be as annoying as using the touchscreen to control mario in mario 64 DS. I'm not really sure.)    

[kirby_killer_dedede]

Er...I haven't read the entire thread, but I read the first few posts, and you guys are apparently confused...there's a wavebird attachment being released (to ship with the console, apparently, along with the analog stick attachment) for more traditional games, like zelda.

http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/651/651559/understanding-the-revolution-controller-20050916041026412-000.jpg

[wandering]

As other people have pointed out, it's doubtful that Nintendo would have one of its flagship games be controlled with the old-style controller.

[Dirk Temporo]

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Originally posted by: kirby_killer_dedede
Er...I haven't read the entire thread, but I read the first few posts, and you guys are apparently confused...there's a wavebird attachment being released (to ship with the console, apparently, along with the analog stick attachment) for more traditional games, like zelda.

http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/651/651559/understanding-the-revolution-controller-20050916041026412-000.jpg

You're apparently confused. What part of the words "MOCK-UP" don't  you understand?

[kirby_killer_dedede]

lol I realize it's a mock-up, but the concept's been announced...

[Artimus]

Yes. But they're not even packing it in. That controller is for ports and classic games, not new Nintendo ones. If they intend to use that for the first game they announced, why even bother with a new controller?

[Rellik]

Zelda and SSB will be tailored to the new control device - that's the entire point of having it.  The more traditional style "shell" gamepad attachment is mostly for cross-platform 3rd-party support and the SNES/N64/GCN compatibility.

My prediction is that basically every reputable developer is going to be all over the new controller, but Nintendo itself most of all - do you really think they would pass up the chance to reinvent their most popular games in wildly new, creative, accessable, and EARTH-SHATTERINGLY FUN ways?  This is the beginning - new genres will be popping up left and right.  The traditional style shell is only provided so that the old genres are still available on the Revolution, if you happen to be a fan.

[zakkiel]

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Originally posted by: Pale
Hmm...  you may have a point.... you are only starting to convince me about the possibility that the wand will only be used for movement.

The game will not work if you use the wand for attacks.  Well it wouldn't work as it works now.  It would go from a tournament level multi player game, to a fun romp full of random attacking.

Possibly, but I highly doubt Nintendo would allow that. I can thhink of several different ways you could use attacks with the controller. The main obstacle is not preserving skill, but preserving character distinctness - if you make attacks more variable, the difference between fast and slow characters will blur a lot. Anyway, I'm not going to pass judgment until I see what Nintendo's doing.

[BlkPaladin]

You know I have come across a Nintendo made game that wasn't simple to pick up, easy and fun to play and the controls almost invisible.

[thenintendorevolution]

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Originally posted by: BlkPaladin
You know I have come across a Nintendo made game that wasn't simple to pick up, easy and fun to play and the controls almost invisible.

Yeah, I played Mario Sunshine too... J/K

I think you screwed up what you were trying to say.

[Don'tHate742]

I think he meant to say:

"You know I haven't come across a Nintendo made game that wasn't simple to pick up, easy and fun to play and the controls almost invisible."

[Spak-Spang]

Before anyone starts complaining about the control schemes of fighters, specially Smash Brothers, with the Revolution, perhaps we should see what Nintendo does with the game.

I can imagine some pretty impressive and fluid gaming with this thing that could revolutionize fighters.

Imagine if the console could animate fluidly your movements with your hands...and to fight you just hold A or B and press direction?  Special moves could be mapped to the D-Pad.

Now this would allow SKILLED players that know the timing of animation and what their character can do and how fast they react to have very distinct and personal fighting styles with the characters.

Imagine Jumping forward with Mario The Forward air movement is Continued while you press the attack button and now you can literally attack anyone in 8-different directions in the air.  You Press Down and B (Kick) and kick Yoshi Springing Mario up higher.  While you do that you notice a fireball from Luigi is coming at you...so now you let go of B and Flick Upwards for your double jump....now you are safe and still doing towards Luigi.  You hold A down for a powerful Smash Attack and Give a solid Flick of the Wrist to Send Luigi flying.  

Now you turn your battle back on Yoshi.

This game could literally be completely redefined by this controller...not to be less deep, but more deep, and more intuitative at the same time.  

[Nile Boogie]

I'm sorry. A love the Controller to death but I really want to play smash with just a WaveBird. Although I have no iDea how they're going to use the new RR (Revolution Remote), on-line and air combos are really the only things I wanted them to add.  The controller makes me think it will play less like Smash and more like POwerSTone.


I do have faith in the folks over at Nintendo. They'll make Smash 3(D) great.  



Edit: Yar ye scurvy dogs, better not forget less thou be swimming in davey jones locker matey.

[Pale]

Avast, I reckon that not one of you swine can explain to me how smash attacks would work with the remote.

[Spak-Spang]

One of two ways:

To attack you hold down A for Punch or B for Kick and flick the direction you want to attack.  (while buttons are held you won't move unless your character was already moving in the air in a particular direction.)  

Now to perform Smash attack you either.

1)Charge the A button or B button for a few second and then Flick a direction.

2)Press A button or B button and flick further and/or faster to achieve a Smash Attack.

You can even combine these methods together to make uber-Strong Smash Attacks.  In that case the A/B charge Smash Attacks would be stronger attacks than the flicking ones, because they require your character to stay stationary to charge.

SMASH ATTACKS can be done easily and logically on the system.  Heck this system makes air combos pretty doable as well.  

Press A and Up to launch someone in the air...Or A and Smash Up to Smash them higher, and then fall them with a flick jump into the air.  Now you can A/B combo them in air, and then when you need to Jump again just flick up and jump a second time.

Also an easier and perhaps simplier Smash move would be to just allow the player to hold A/B together to Smash Attack.

[KnowsNothing]

Instead of flicking the controller left or right with your wrist like you would for normal attacks, you quickly move your arm sideways at the elbow....or something..

Edit: Yarr, Spakky beat me to the plunder!  (plus he said more words and stuff)

[Pale]

Yar, sounds like the most precisionless idea I've ever heard.  You are talking about several precise movements in what could be completely opposite directions in a matter of seconds.  Whatever you all say... it won't freaking work.

How do you charge?  I mean, you can't hold the button down using your scheme, or every attack would be a smash attack...  And, if a smash attack requires a greater distance of moving, how would the controller not think you were doing a normal attack first?  By putting a delay on a normal attack?  It wouldn't work.

Seriously guys, you need to realize that this may very well be a revolution like the analog stick was, but not every game uses or can be improved by an analog stick.

[zakkiel]

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Seriously guys, you need to realize that this may very well be a revolution like the analog stick was, but not every game uses or can be improved by an analog stick.

It must suck to be facing such disappointment when the Revolution comes out, I guess. Oh, and yarr, matey, why shouldn't precision require skill to achieve, rather than smacking a button?

[Artimus]

The problem with fighting games is that no one has ever improved the same old button-mashing format.

But I hate them so I'm not the best to judge.

[Spak-Spang]

All I am trying to point out with my control idea is that it is possible, and even possible with adding depth of play, not simplifying it.

Look, The original game has 2 buttons for attack, One Button for throw/Shield.  

That is the most basic formula needed for Smash Brothers.

This controller could easily be used so that.

1)A Button Attacks.
2)B Button Special Attack
3)A/B Button Together Shield/Throw.  

Or you could have the D-PAD for Special Buttons, and then two attack Buttons.

Anyway, Charging A Button is just that holding the Button for 2-3 Seconds without making triggering an attack, not that hard to figure out.

This control mechanic would cause the game to be different, but that would be a good thing, because Melee was pretty perfect, and I don't want just a clone of Melee I want something different.

If I could come up with that control system by myself.  Nintendo's designers will come up with something better.  Give them faith.

Smah Brothers, and Fighting games in general need a new formula to make them interesting again.  Revolution may provide that formula.

[zakkiel]

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Originally posted by: Artimus
The problem with fighting games is that no one has ever improved the same old button-mashing format.

But I hate them so I'm not the best to judge.

I hope you're not including SSB in that. I really enjoy taking the button mashers out to town.