Topic: Metroid Prime 3 Revolutionized

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Professional 666
^ You forget that the weak complained about Echoes' difficulty or that they weren't able to beat the last boss.  Nintendo listened to the fans, and made MP3 WORSE in its year of delay.

Quadraxis ftw.

Actually people complained more about the crappy back tracking so they made a far superior game (and if anything 500xs better than Killer7).

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

You're confusing Smash's backtracking posts with complaints by individual players.

[stevey]

I think I HATED most about Prime 3 wasn't the "No change-everyone Wins" gameplay, it's was lack of any backtrack! Prime 3 isn't a FPA, it's a FPS (Yeah, I said it), the was barely any exploration in the game, hell Doom3 has more backtracking than Prime 3. The thing I loved about Prime 1 is that every place felt connected and it was an actual world that was really being explored, find new areas or shortcuts, see a nearly real game world was awesome. One of my favorite things about the game was that the final level was the room right behind of where you landed. In Prime 2, it had a little less backtracking, But made up for it with more Exploring of 2 different world that made up for it.

Prime 3 can be sum up by Game start*------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Ending. It was completely linear with only deviation from the main path was one room to go to a save station. The end of game fetch quest was a joke, You only need to go back to get 2/3 items and they were place right next to landing sites for 0 backtracking. Prime 3 still fun but Fails as a Prime game, Retro should have call it Hunter 2.

/rant

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Professional 666
You're confusing Smash's backtracking posts with complaints by individual players.

Every review I read mentioned the the scavenger hunt, I know some MP primes want to ignore the fact that the series had some of the most pointless scavenger hunts around, but the fact remains that there were many of us who can't ignore it.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: stevey
hell Doom3 has more backtracking than Prime 3

I stopped reading after such a mind numbingly stupid comment like that. I'm not even that far in MP3 and it has a heck of lot more backtracking then the shootem up Doom 3.

[Adrock]

Backtracking only bothered me in Metroid Prime 1 and 2 because of the fetch quests at the end. I liked how most of the Energy Cells in Metroid Prime 3 are picked up along the way by just looking around.

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Well... let's just say that I'm skeptical about whether Metroid could be done in third person. I'm skeptical... and so is Miyamoto.

Only because you know it works in 1st person... Everyone was skeptical that Metroid could work in 1st person before Prime came out. I recall Miyamoto saying that 1st person worked better because Metroid takes place in small corridors... yet the Prime games had numerous wide open rooms.

They could always make a game that can be played entirely in either 1st and 3rd person.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Adrock
Backtracking only bothered me in Metroid Prime 1 and 2 because of the fetch quests at the end. I liked how most of the Energy Cells in Metroid Prime 3 are picked up along the way by just looking around.

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Well... let's just say that I'm skeptical about whether Metroid could be done in third person. I'm skeptical... and so is Miyamoto.

Only because you know it works in 1st person... Everyone was skeptical that Metroid could work in 1st person before Prime came out. I recall Miyamoto saying that 1st person worked better because Metroid takes place in small corridors... yet the Prime games had numerous wide open rooms.

They could always make a game that can be played entirely in either 1st and 3rd person.

You are right Adrock, that is mainly what I was referencing the fetch quests at the end which was NOT Metroid like.I enjoyed the in between backtracking and exploration that you needed to do to progress, which was very much like previous Metroid's. I think with MP3 Retro realized that the world(s) were too big in previous Metroid Prime games to have a big end game search quest, so instead they streamlined exploration to each world as you went.

[TrueNerd]

3rd person Metroid could work and work well, but my initial concerns would be that the series would become even more similar to Zelda.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: TrueNerd
3rd person Metroid could work and work well, but my initial concerns would be that the series would become even more similar to Zelda.

Samus has to fly to Hyrule to stop Ganon and motherbrain from taking over!

[Shecky]

Just finished the game and simply reading the posts on this page made me laugh a bit.  I had explored most of the V before I even saw the fetch quest coming to the point that I didn't have to fetch a thing by the time I was told to revisit the V.  ironically the last cell I got was the one right at the entrance to the V!!

I backtracked on my own, recalling areas that had interesting areas that I couldn't get to with my current equipment (most of those rooms were memorable so it wasn't hard to remember where they were).

I finished with 98% in 18 hours... which is very good in my opinion.  I'm a bit biased b/c I don't have the time for long games anymore.

I'm actually pissed that I'm short 2%, and I have no white dots to speak of!

[decoyman]

Shecky, I bet I know where they are, because they're the same ones that nearly drove me crazy. Have you checked the snowy place on Bryyo (I think it's Bryyo, at least) where there's a big chasm with the giant chozo statue (you have to shoot the chozo's hand to hop on it to cross the chasm) and lizard statue? You have to warp there, and since there's no landing zone in that area, you can't zoom into it on the map. It's the tiny little disconnected area on the world map at the left. There are two power-ups there, and I missed both of them as well. One is a ship's missile upgrade, and the other is an energy tank. I forget which upgrade you get there... spider ball maybe?

Having 98% and not being able to finish w/ 100% forced me to re-beat the game for the missing 2% (I didn't save at the end ā€“ I'd thought that those last two upgrades might be on Phaaze. Doh!). Anyways, I'm pretty sure that's where your 2% is. Good luck!  

[UERD]

It's the room where you get the screw attack. It has the two giant statues.

I think Chozo Observatory only gives you Norion, Bryyo (NOT including Bryyo Ice), and Elysia locations for powerups.

[Shecky]

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Originally posted by: decoyman
Shecky, I bet I know where they are, because they're the same ones that nearly drove me crazy. Have you checked the snowy place on Bryyo (I think it's Bryyo, at least) where there's a big chasm with the giant chozo statue (you have to shoot the chozo's hand to hop on it to cross the chasm) and lizard statue? You have to warp there, and since there's no landing zone in that area, you can't zoom into it on the map. It's the tiny little disconnected area on the world map at the left. There are two power-ups there, and I missed both of them as well. One is a ship's missile upgrade, and the other is an energy tank. I forget which upgrade you get there... spider ball maybe?

Having 98% and not being able to finish w/ 100% forced me to re-beat the game for the missing 2% (I didn't save at the end ā€“ I'd thought that those last two upgrades might be on Phaaze. Doh!). Anyways, I'm pretty sure that's where your 2% is. Good luck!

Gah, all I needed was the first two words of that and it jolted me... that place had sunk so far back in my memory that I nearly forgot that it didn't show up on any maps.  You get the screw attack there... and it was really cool icy atmosphere, but too bad it's only like too rooms ... seeing as how I'm short an energy tank that HAS to be it.  I was planning on revisiting the V (the only one without Elisa data).... and then to just start walking around the planets in order... I would have eventually made it back to the snowy area.  I would have then proceeded to bang my head against a wall for not thinking of it sooner.....  Technically it should be on the far side of the planet I think as your radio transmissions were being distorted.

In any case, thanks a bundle!

Also, I also thought that the last two might be at your final destination.  Fortunately, I copied my file after warned about "no turning back".

Speaking of upgrades, what with all of the missiles?  do they just fill in up to 100 items to collect by throwing missiles all over the place?  In the 2D game you can shoot them off rapidly, but not so in these titles...

Also, why do I ever even need ship missile expansions?  

[Mashiro]

I'm glad people thought it was a perfect game but I must retain my stance that Prime 3 is not perfect for the following reasons:

- Lack of weapon power ups that make a difference. You really only feel slightly more powerful with each upgrade, and with there only being 3, it ain't much. From all the talk about a stackable weapon system like in Super Metroid I was hoping for more beams that could be switched on and off and have different effects but alas we just got three that stacked. Yay.

- Linear. Linear linear linear. It was nice because it kept the game moving at a nice pace but . . . just too linear. I dunno I feel like I enjoyed Prime 1 a lot more because of the vast areas we could go through. This isn't to say the level design was bad for it's set up, on the contrary I really enjoyed all the levels but it just seemed a little too straight forward most of the way through the game.

- Lack of any space battles with your ship. The climatic warp to the phazon planet cut scene where all the ships get into "star wars" battle was a perfect opportunity to do something that has never been done in the Metroid series.

- Lack of character development for 2 of the 3 other hunters. I am terrible with names so forgive me but the ice powered hunter was the only hunter that i felt somewhat bad about killing, mainly because of his helpful persona in the beginning of the game. Where as the other two, you really don't get that much of a feel for.

- The AUs and their magical appearance in the prime universe and the lack of connection with Mother Brain. If AU's were so important to the GF, why haven't we heard of them before? Are they brand new? As Bill suggested was their design influenced from Mother Brain? How do the potentially thousands of other AU's connect to the other Metroid games? There's a lot of potential with the AU's that I felt they did not take advantage of. One of the endings should have definitely had something relating to an AU being taken, stolen, re-built, w/e by space pirates as to give us a teaser for what could possible be next, as well as laying out the story for the potential next Samus adventure.

- Terribly lame final battle with Dark Samus.

- Sporadic door loading times. One thing I found weird was that there would be times where I would just boot up the game and start from a save point, go back through areas I had already been in but notice severely longer loading times than the previous night. Has anyone else experienced this? It's kind of annoying to say the least. It isn't a big killer of the game but an annoyance none the less.

With that said, the game was still very enjoyable but to me it wasn't a perfect experience.

I still give it a 9.5 outta 10.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Playing on Veteran would solve your gameplay problems.

1)  Getting hit is bad.  REAL BAD.  Like wow, not dying was a great incentive to dodging properly.  Normal is like "haha, you tickle!  Samus is getting aroused!"

2)  Getting the new beams was welcomed.  The difference is doing noticeable damage versus what felt like NO DAMAGE against even the little crawly tank-bots.  You can still get by comfortably on Veteran by applying charged beam shots.

I suppose Normal mode was basically "joke" mode.  It's just another example set by the non-game-infected Twilight Princess, which probably should've had a "Legend Mode" or something.

[Dirk Temporo]

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Originally posted by: stevey
I think I HATED most about Prime 3 wasn't the "No change-everyone Wins" gameplay, it's was lack of any backtrack!

Good riddance. Backtracking made MP1&2 almost unplayable for me. Backtracking is fine in pure adventure games (King's Quest), action/adventure games (Zelda), and 2D games (the 2D Metroids), but in Metroid Prime, it was just f*cking painful.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Professional 666

I suppose Normal mode was basically "joke" mode.  It's just another example set by the non-game-infected Twilight Princess, which probably should've had a "Legend Mode" or something.

Or the non-game infected Zelda: OOT, oh wait. Actually I think "normal" mode was created so the pompus, "hardcore" gamers can put others down.

[Shecky]

I'm sure they had dogfighting and cut it.... I think the ship missile expansions are proof of that, more so than the little touches of blast shields and cannons in your cockpit.  I'm convinced those things are damned if you do, damned if you don't.  Had they included it people probably would have cried foul, especially if it wasn't perfect.  I for one don't think they would have been able to do it well and were probably better off keeping it out.

I also think the snow area was to be a bigger portion of the game that got cut.

They were railed by critics and users for the backtracking and so they put in shortcuts and one way passages to speed things up.  Having several planets also hurt the model your looking for a bit.  I know what you mean that Talon IV seemed to be a massive single planet and the transports and connections, but I think they did an good job with this title as well.  I felt like I was exploring and would frequently backtrack to some areas.  Hint's came up rather quickly, like when the AU's tell you to backtrack (even though I was heading for that destination having figured it out myself).  I'd rather have to push 2 to get those hints.

They had back stories, read the lore and scans - and they did quite a bit with the AU's too.  I wasn't expecting this to go Terminator on us and all the AU's to become bad and form skynet

To their credit, phazon attacks have remained consistent over time... they're all just pretty lame

Metroid Prime (original) still holds the crown for the worst final boss out of the series.  

[decoyman]

Shecky, ship missile expansions are for calling in bombing raids in open areas. Just call up your command visor and activate it. Takes out any enemies hanging around. Could come in handy in a pinch!

[Mashiro]

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They had back stories, read the lore and scans - and they did quite a bit with the AU's too. I wasn't expecting this to go Terminator on us and all the AU's to become bad and form skynet.

I know they did Shecky but I felt they could have applied more to the actual overall story. They put so much effort into all the little nooks and crannies of the series and it just felt like some aspects of the plot left big gapping holes that will never be filled.

[Shecky]

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Originally posted by: decoyman
Shecky, ship missile expansions are for calling in bombing raids in open areas. Just call up your command visor and activate it. Takes out any enemies hanging around. Could come in handy in a pinch!

Really?  I honestly never knew that was even possible.

[Mashiro]

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Originally posted by: Shecky

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Originally posted by: decoyman
Shecky, ship missile expansions are for calling in bombing raids in open areas. Just call up your command visor and activate it. Takes out any enemies hanging around. Could come in handy in a pinch!

Really?  I honestly never knew that was even possible.

Yeah, it only works in open areas for obvious reasons but it obliterates everything on screen for the most part. I too didn't know about this until someone mentioned it the other day on this thread and I tried it. Worked like a charm.

[UERD]

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They put so much effort into all the little nooks and crannies of the series and it just felt like some aspects of the plot left big gapping holes that will never be filled.

My biggest quibble with the Aurora thing is that the preview channel Aurora movie set everything up just perfectly...and they didn't use it. Kind of like in the PED video, where the voice over says 'No ill effects have been observed' just as the marine is staring at his hand.

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I'm sure they had dogfighting and cut it.... I think the ship missile expansions are proof of that, more so than the little touches of blast shields and cannons in your cockpit. I'm convinced those things are damned if you do, damned if you don't. Had they included it people probably would have cried foul, especially if it wasn't perfect. I for one don't think they would have been able to do it well and were probably better off keeping it out.

I think dogfighting wouldn't have worked out well, but they could have done at least one space-based boss battle on-rails (like with Ridley at the beginning.) I mean, you're already so close to that with blowing up the ATCs and protecting the bomb over Elysia. No worrying about controls, and as Mashiro said some of the cutscenes were just crying out for it.

Oh, and with the bombing runs thing, a boss battle involving your ship not getting beaten to death would have rocked.

Regardless, the game is pretty much almost perfect. Just rename 'normal' to 'easy n00b mode' and we'd be all set.

[Shecky]

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Originally posted by: UERD

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They put so much effort into all the little nooks and crannies of the series and it just felt like some aspects of the plot left big gapping holes that will never be filled.

My biggest quibble with the Aurora thing is that the preview channel Aurora movie set everything up just perfectly...and they didn't use it. Kind of like in the PED video, where the voice over says 'No ill effects have been observed' just as the marine is staring at his hand.

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I'm sure they had dogfighting and cut it.... I think the ship missile expansions are proof of that, more so than the little touches of blast shields and cannons in your cockpit. I'm convinced those things are damned if you do, damned if you don't. Had they included it people probably would have cried foul, especially if it wasn't perfect. I for one don't think they would have been able to do it well and were probably better off keeping it out.

I think dogfighting wouldn't have worked out well, but they could have done at least one space-based boss battle on-rails (like with Ridley at the beginning.) I mean, you're already so close to that with blowing up the ATCs and protecting the bomb over Elysia. No worrying about controls, and as Mashiro said some of the cutscenes were just crying out for it.

Oh, and with the bombing runs thing, a boss battle involving your ship not getting beaten to death would have rocked.

Yeah, I agree... all good points.  Especially the last one your poor ship... like when your forced to send in your ship against the anti-air to progress... I didn't want to but recall not having a choice.

[UERD]

Yeah, I was half expecting it to get shot down completely. Not to mention it would have helped so much with that part where you had to pull the levers...except you were pulling the levers to destroy an anti-aircraft gun .