Author Topic: Size Does Not Equal Power (Read 15073 times)

ThePerm · « **on:** July 22, 2005, 03:51:13 PM »

The revolution is small in comparison with other next generation systems. Some have used this to quickly claim that this means that it will be lacking in power and also that unless it was the same size/power it would have heating problems notably Matt from IGN.

This logic is flawed though.

1 The xbox was huge in comparison to the gamecube...yet the gamecube clearly held its own in terms of power.

2 On gamecube the power adapter isnt built in. its external. So it doesnt take up the extra amount of space by being built into the system.
letting the system be smaller.

3 have you ever looked at an xbox mother board and a gamecube motherboard?
http://lib.store.yahoo.com/lib/directron/replacexboxmb04.jpg
http://www.segatech.com/gamecube/overview/gamecube_motherboard_sm.jpg
the xbox motherboard is a mess, and its not at all as streamlined as the gcn one....
chances are rev and 360 are hte same way.

nickmitch · « **Reply #1 on:** July 22, 2005, 05:30:20 PM »

Well, who really listens to Matt?

mantidor · « **Reply #2 on:** July 22, 2005, 06:16:03 PM »

sadly some people

Caterkiller · « **Reply #3 on:** July 22, 2005, 09:01:09 PM »

Im glad someone made a post about this, I was ready to make it myself but just never did. Anywho im glad this was said by someone. Just because the Revolution will be very small in size does not mean it won't be able to pull of the same kinds of visuals and such as the competition. If you took a GB Micro back in time to the SNES days and said this thing can run circles around the SNES most people would dismis it as impossible because of the same gibberish that we are reading now. I mean sony shrunk a PS2 down into hand held size this generation didn't they?

Technology gets much more complicated as time goes on, but at the same time notice how things get alot smaller. Nintendo says they are investing in some NEW technology, what ever it is, it's pretty compact and there is no doubt in my mind that it will be able to stand up against the competition.

KnowsNothing · « **Reply #4 on:** July 22, 2005, 09:16:36 PM »

Quote
I mean sony shrunk a PS2 down into hand held size this generation didn't they

No, but I get your point.

Dirk Temporo · « **Reply #5 on:** July 22, 2005, 09:39:43 PM »

Yes they did. The new PS2 is smaller in terms of volume than the Game Gear.

BigJim · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2005, 03:17:24 AM »

PS2 and Xbox were designed to be component-sized. It's not that they couldn't be made smaller. It was a design choice. So those are bad examples.

Technology advances, but we're talking mere months separating each system's launch. Not 5-14 years. There's no breakthrough that's going to happen in such time as to allow the seriously power-hungry components of PS3 or 360 to become as small, cheap, quiet, and cool as Nintendo claims Revolution will be.

That being said, performance CAN come in small packages. One needs only to look at a modern laptop to see that. The problem is that Nintendo isn't just going with small. They're going with small, silent, cheap, and cool.

The size shouldn't be a concern. It's the cheap, silent, and cool parts that should. Those things equate into performance sacrifices. The graphics, for example, of 360 and PS3 are as advanced as current top of the line PC cards, and they're definitely not cheap, silent, or cool cards.

So Matt is right for the wrong reason.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2005, 05:06:01 AM »

Not necessarily. The biggest part of the size of most systems is the size of the mobo, a more compact mobo would not only increase bus speeds, it would keep the device smaller.

Has Nintendo delivered any data outside of case measurements? For all we know the Rev is as loud as a GeForce 6800 in 3d mode and eats 2.5 gigawatts. IOW we cannot conclude from the power/heat/noise specs what kind of power the system will have because we don't have those specs. A 90nm or 65nm (Sony wants to make the Cell 65nm so maybe IBM will have 65nm fabs by the time the Rev goes into production) PPC-derivative would not eat that much power. AFAIK AMD kept the power consumption the same from one 130nm core to two 90nm cores.

The Cube isn't very silent either so I don't think heat will be the constraint. Price is more of a problem.

KnowsNothing · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2005, 05:41:40 AM »

Hey people in the know, what are some of the not-so-obvious advantages of having flash memory in the Rev? At E3 Iwata hinted about the Revolution, saying that if you put together a few things you will begin to undertand what the Rev is about. He specifically mentioned the internal flash memory, and ever since I've had the nagging thought that the internal memory was a bigger factor than just saving games or saves. What are the other advantages? What else can it do?

ROAR

BigJim · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2005, 06:42:20 AM »

Nintendo hasn't given actual data, but they've stated specifically that they're aiming for a "quiet" system. From that it's not difficult to assume we're not dealing with cutting edge components. We don't know exactly how weak or powerful, but "quiet" never meant top shelf in my experience.

If they can get the 65nm process off and running with good yields, that's well and good. But even that doesn't guarantee the heat problem is solved either. I'm equally concerned about the GPUs. No single point proves Rev is underpowered, but looking at their goals collectively, I would put my money on it being the weakest of the bunch.

BigJim · « **Reply #10 on:** July 23, 2005, 07:16:24 AM »

Other advantages of flash memory... Aside from gimmicky ideas like music, photos, and videos?

- Used to update online service to fix bugs, add features (like Genesis emulation), or circumvent piracy hacks.
- Retain log of purchased or downloaded content (virtual console games, game demos, advertisements)
- Trade/share game saves offline or online. (if you use the external flash card)
- Retain personal or historical data (time of last boot up, late time game was played, buddy lists, your wireless network SSID, etc)
- Cache storage of online data (competitor's scores, ranks, maps)
- Memorize your voice for audio commands

While not having to do with flash memory, it'd be kinda cool if Nintendo had an online game save option for online enabled players... i.e. give everybody free 512MB of online storage. No matter where you go, your game saves go with you (via login). Just an idea.

UniversalJuan · « **Reply #11 on:** July 23, 2005, 09:28:52 AM »

I haven't seen a single person comment on this so I thought I would chime in with this sense it is kind of related. The form of the size is what this relates to. My little discovery is this...look back at pictures of the Rev (Even ebtter if you have the press conference). What does the rev look like when held? I'll give you a second if it doesn't come right away.....

You've got it! It resembles an SD Memory Card! A giant freaking SD Memory Card. Why is this? Hmm....

KDR_11k · « **Reply #12 on:** July 23, 2005, 10:38:56 AM »

Their lead designer had a nightmare of giant SD cards trying to crush him.

ruby_onix · « **Reply #13 on:** July 23, 2005, 11:16:53 AM »

Quote
For all we know the Rev is as loud as a GeForce 6800 in 3d mode and eats 2.5 gigawatts.

One of the things Nintendo has boasted about the Rev is it's "low power consumption" (I can't remember where they said it, but I remember they did).

nickmitch · « **Reply #14 on:** July 23, 2005, 11:31:37 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Their lead designer had a nightmare of giant SD cards trying to crush him.

Then why would he/she make one in real life?!? After my last nightmare I didn't make a giant hello. . .uhhh. . .hell's angel.

stevey · « **Reply #15 on:** July 23, 2005, 04:16:57 PM »

"After my last nightmare I didn't make a giant hello. . .uhhh. . .hell's angel"

Did you have the dream of a ten foot tall hello kittie biting off people head.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #16 on:** July 23, 2005, 09:23:46 PM »

ruby: But "low" doesn't mean "less than 30 W" or something, we can't say "this CPU drains too much power".

Either way, I wonder if anyone will ever make an AMD-based console...

stevey · « **Reply #17 on:** July 24, 2005, 03:29:25 PM »

Have you seen the new 360 mother board perm? http://www.360hacker.net/newsimages/xbox360mobo.jpg and http://www.360hacker.net/newsimages/xbox360mobo2.jpg is the 360 is it better or is it wrose then #1. (the GPU is under the left fan, and the CPU under the right.)

Sir_Stabbalot · « **Reply #18 on:** July 24, 2005, 05:03:23 PM »

Another advantage of flash memory is that it's small. Good for Rev-sized stuff.

pudu · « **Reply #19 on:** July 24, 2005, 09:54:07 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
Another advantage of flash memory is that it's small. Good for Rev-sized stuff.

Wow somehow I never thought of that. The space the Rev can save from excluding a HD for tiny, built in flash memory is pretty big. Considering flash memory getting bigger and cheaper all the time this may turn out as plus in the long run. People will be able to cheaply upgrade it and (hopefully) transfer data to their PCs.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #20 on:** July 25, 2005, 02:19:16 AM »

There are harddrives as large as a CF card so I don't think space was the only concern. It's more likely price-driven.

Fro · « **Reply #21 on:** July 25, 2005, 03:16:04 AM »

We'll see what happens. It's possible Nintendo will cut enough corners on the unimportant stuff (not paying for DVD license, no HD) that they will spend their money on just the memory, processor, and video card.

ThePerm · « **Reply #22 on:** July 25, 2005, 11:26:57 AM »

also, that 512 mb of flash memory might jump up to a gig...flash memory's price is going down. By the time revolution actually sees stores it migth be cheap enough to wear nintendo will pur a bigger card in the revolution

vudu · « **Reply #23 on:** July 25, 2005, 12:37:28 PM »

I'm confused regarding the whole flash memory thing. I think I remember reading somewhere that the flash memory will be removable. Did I read this, or am I making this up? Or am I thinking that there will be 512MB built-in memory and a slot to add your own external flash memory?

BlackNMild2k1 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 25, 2005, 12:46:55 PM »

the 2nd one. 512 (hopefully 1gig by release) built in and a SD slot for removeable media

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Author Topic: Size Does Not Equal Power (Read 15073 times)