Topic: Revolutionary Controller

[Cap]

http://www.immersion.com/industrial/touchscreen/

this looks interesting.

[Don'tHate742]

Rellik: I never thought of it that way. That could be brilliant.

To be honest, before you mentioned it, I never thought gyroscropes could completely illimate joysticks. Like Ian, I didn't think they could work as flawlessly as joysticks do. However, with resistance involved, it would be exactly like twisting a door handle.

That would be extremely accessible to people; even more so than a joystick. Still....illimating joysticks is a very bad idea. I'm sure Nintendo knows that.

And one more thing...Ian....you mentioned in another thread how you hate gyration, and the possibilities surrounding it. I admit...sword-swinging as Link would suck ass. I would never forgive Nintendo for that because that's not what Zelda is about.

I wouldn't mind, however, if they used it in another game. It doesn't neccessarily have to be an adventure. A stand-alone would be just fine....I actually prefer it.

That's what Gyration is about. Introducing ideas, but not forcing them.  As long as they don't dominate games controls where joysticks would be better, I'm fine with it. Even if they do, how hard would it be to come up with an alternate control scheme without gyration? And don't even say that the controllers might not have joysticks to begin with, because Reggie already mentioned it will play every generation thus far.

It doesn't constrict any pre-existing game, but instead, enhancing them while making completely new games that can't be recreated. TPS's are popular, but how insanely popular would a TPS be with gyration controls. Think Max Payne except you directly control his arms.

Sports games would be changed forever. How many sports require arm movements? Exactly.....They could finally recreate a bowling game, and not to mention a more realistic boxing and archery game. It would make these games much more accesible.

Even puzzle sports games, that don't require specific arm/wrist movement (PunchOut!), could be made more accessible. A joystick would do fine, but what about Gyration Punch Out? People who suck at boxing could have fun because of its focus on timing and not technique. So instead of making you emulate punches, you could just move your wrist a few inches forward; unlike Gyration Boxing which you'd have to punch exactly how you'd want to punch.

Anyway, imagine pressing the "super punch" button that Super Punch Out introduced. Only this time, instead of just holding the button down as you wait for Little Mac to punch; you hold it down and see a meter at the bottom slowly charge as you hold the button. If you let go, it dissapears. You must punch as you hold the button to use what has charged, but the problem is, if the meter reaches the top, it starts over at the bottom. So for you to use the real super punch, you'll have to time your physical punch perfectly.

Little things like that could add more interactivity to pre-existing games. Metriod is the perfect example. Actually....come to think of it....what type of game wouldn't be able to use it in some way?

The only one I can think of is Fighting games like Street Fighter or Smash Bros.  

[IceCold]

Yea - its not for 2D games - definitely would work for 3D ones though

Ian, don't tell me the first time you used an analogue stick you felt that it was as if everything in your dreams came true, because that's bullsh!t. Analogue sticks aren't even close to being "true" controls. But we adapted. We adapted and now it's second nature to us. However, it took a while for us to truly get used to them. WIth the potential of gyroscopics, you could pick the controller up and just play, with true and intuitive controls. Stop being so damn conservative and recognize the potential of them. It's another thing if you don't think that they can be implemented properly, but at least give them a chance/

[PaLaDiN]

I hope that by "force feedback" you guys mean "rumble". There's really no restoring force in gyros... seems like some of you are chasing a pipe dream.

[Don'tHate742]

By  force-feedback I mean resistance. Resistance given in a certian velocity....

If that isn't possible, then say good-bye to the gyroscopic dominating games.

[nolimit19]

all i wanted was an xbox s-type controller....hahaha, but htere are some pretty interesting ideas. having a mouse and key board would be awesome...but how to do it...i havent read the whole thread, but if nintendo could incorperate a mouse into its controller, there would be no need for me to play FPS on the PC anymore.

[Don'tHate742]

You should get a DS....

[nickmitch]

The mouse could be an add-on like the SNES Mario Paint mouse.

[Stimutacs Addict]

i think force feedback/haptics contained within the controller (specifically the analog stick) would be friggin dope.  imagine trying to run uphill and actually feeling the analog stick supply a reactionary force proportional to the slope of the hill/difficulty of the terrain.

or I'd like an analog stick that can be depressed into the controller (akin to the ps2 and xbox clicks).. but make it analog. I really dont know why that sounds cool, but damn i want one

[Ian Sane]

Rev controller not yet finalized according to Gamespot.

I think it's kind of a bummer that it's not done yet because it suggests they don't really have a grand plan for their controller.  I was kind of hoping that the controller design would be more calculated, like Nintendo has had this brilliant idea for years.  What kind of games are they making if they're still tinkering with the controls?  It would seem to me that one can't make a game to sell a new controller concept if the concept isn't finalized.  Though it could just be that the really unique part of the controller is done and they're just tinkering with minor stuff.  I just hope this isn't another connectivity routine where Nintendo has a really good idea in theory but no actual good game concept to go with it.

Though this does suggest a very flexible controller like they thought of everything they could possibly throw on the thing and they're trying to find a good balance by removing and adding stuff.  It also suggests that the controller is not that weird or they wouldn't be able to fiddle with it this much (or play N64 games on for that matter).  But they've got to hurry up because they can't wait too long or third parties won't have time to make Rev launch games.  I assume you have to be pretty specific about controller design when giving out dev kits.

I find it kind of cool that there are currently four Rev related stories on Gamespot's news page right now.  Who would have thought that a lack of provided information would result in more news?  Perhaps there is something to this "mystery creates hype" thing.

[thepoga]

When they say not finalized, it hopefully means the look, shape, and a minimal-cost design. I agree with Ian that they need to finish the final controller design so we won't have another DS launch line-up like situation. Battery life is also going to be considered now into the controller design. If it turns out it does have some sort of gyroscopic techonology, how much power will that consume? I just hope that it feels good in my hands. I heard that the Xbox 360's controller is one of the best controllers yet, and it really feels good. PS3 controller will hopefully suck with that boomerang design. It looks like one of those cheap ones you see for computers. Can't really say anything until I hold it though.

[KnowsNothing]

Yeah, Miyamoto said the the idea for the Rev was rock solid, but reports are saying that it's not finalized.  It probably just means that they need to find the best way ergonomically to mold the controller or where to put the buttons.  The big aspects of the controller have probably been finalized for quite some time, now they're just trying to put it in the best and least intimidating design they can think of (and also the best way to design the controller for easy multiplatform next gen titles)

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I just hope this isn't another connectivity routine where Nintendo has a really good idea in theory but no actual good game concept to go with it.

I don't think this is the case, what with the name "Revolution" and all.  Nintendo is putting a lot of money on this, and they're really confident that it will revolutionize gaming.  While they did make a big deal about connectivity, they weren't really putting too much stock in it,  This is different.

For the record, I love connectivity and think it's a great idea.  While it could have been fleshed out some more, we got games like Four Swords Adventures and FFCC multiplayer was fun >=o), and I believe it gave Ninty the idea for the DS, so I'd say it was worth it.
 

[thepoga]

oh yeah one more thing. I think another reason why Nintendo didn't show it is especially of the look of it not being finalized. The models they have right now probably don't look appealing, and with Nintendo's more image-concious-gamers approach, want it to look good when they finally reveal it. And they don't want to say what it can do, with people not seeing what it looks like at least. The Nintendo DS prototype model was ugly. And it appeared on a lot of magazines which led to a lot of people thinking that it was what it looked like. Nintendo probably doesn't want that to happen with the Rev.

[Dirk Temporo]

I remember an interview with Shigeru Miyamoto a little while ago, where he said that the controler was finished, in terms of control style.

[mantidor]

yup, it was on IGN, the one on one interview with Miyamoto, he said that it was "set in stone", so needless to say I was left with a weird feeling after reading the news at gamespot, specially since I considered Miyamoto and Nintendo for that matter as the epitome of integerity, but now it sounds like they were just lying.

[Talon]

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Originally posted by: mantidor
yup, it was on IGN, the one on one interview with Miyamoto, he said that it was "set in stone", so needless to say I was left with a weird feeling after reading the news at gamespot, specially since I considered Miyamoto and Nintendo for that matter as the epitome of integerity, but now it sounds like they were just lying.

Or maybe Gamespot was bending the truth??

[pudu]

I'm sorry if this has already been discussed somewhere but:

I wonder how much this "revolutionary" controller will cost and if this is why they are trying to keep the console on the more "cost effective" end of the spectrum?  

Could this be the first conroller released starting at around $50?

If the controller makes the system and is as incredible as we all hope it will be then I say by all means don't hold back due to price!  I'd gladly fork over 50 or more if it meant finally taking the next step in conrol and user interface.

[Mario]

I have some speculation about Revolution i've finally decided to share here

A new rumor has popped up saying something about a light gun type thing built into the Revolution controller, I don't know or care if it's legit or not, I just heard someone mention it, it reminded me of an idea I had a while ago.

Imagine how cool it would be if we had the power in real life, to point to something, and make it fly across the room. Imagine you're walking through the jungle, clearing obstacles out of the way by pointing at them and brushing them to the side from a distance. Imagine if there was something across the room you couldn't reach, but you just point to it and make it fly over to you.

Now, incorporate that into videogames! Light gun games, I haven't played them all, but I don't think they were previously able to do this, because they only detected the gun when you pull the trigger (i'm just guessing this). Take that a step further, take away the "gun" part, and make it so the screen can detect you dragging the thing across the screen, and it's like you're using a stylus for DS... but from a distance, and you don't need to touch the screen.

Of course, this won't be the only part of the controller. This sensor type thing can perhaps go on the top of the controller where the cord normally sticks out. This would be an advanced way to control the game from the DS, eliminating the hassle of using the stylus and pressing buttons at the time, making it MUCH easier, because you wouldn't need an extra hand for the "stylus", you're already holding it with two hands and all your fingers are free to press buttons. First Person Shooters would be revolutionised, Real Time Strategies would be finally possible on consoles, new gameplay opportunities will arise.

Things that actually point to this being plausable:
- Nintendo stated DS is a hint of things to come
- It's actually possible
- It would be cheap to implement (rather than a billion dollar VR helmet)
- It's an example of an idea prevailing over big budget, something Nintendo has emphasized
- It's simple, just point the thing at the screen
- This allows for both simple games, and large adventure game masterpieces to be created
- How would you play Duck Hunt on Revolution?

Now, what could be on the face of the controller? Will this look like a traditional controller? Will it even have buttons? Will it be custom made, buildable yourself like lego blocks? Will the controller have some kind of feedback in it, that lets you feel things? An advanced form of rumble? Will it emit smells? I don't know, maybe someone else could speculate on that, but I KNOW there's another innovative way to control games, either instead of the one i'm thinking of, or in addition to. Think about it, a Wario Ware title for Revolution using this control system would be almost exactly the same as Wario Ware Touched, so there has to be other ways.

I know I know, gyro this gyro that, but i'm sick of the gyro idea, it's been discussed to death. Gyros + this idea could mean a unique kind of duel analog control, without the analog, but... I don;t know.

Sticking too many things on the controller will make it look too complicated though... so that complicates this speculation somewhat, i'll leave it at this for now. Thoughts?

[MrMojoRising]

Mario:  That would be freaking awesome for FPS...you could move around with an analog stick and aim with your controller (like you could see the cursor moving on the screen)...now that would be some percise aiming!  This could also coincide with people saying the controller is/can be two pieces.  One piece is esentially used as a real "gun."  Off the top of my head I can't think of any other really practical uses for this...but that would still be bad ass.

[Talon]

I think any controller that is specifically tailored to one genre would be quite easy to design.  However designing a controller that could function for not only multiple genres but also multiple systems that each have their own unique controllers is going to be in itself revolutionary and extremely difficult for nintendo to do.  That being said what mario suggested with the light gun is quite plausible but really is only geared towards PC style games (ie FPS, RTS and light gun games).

If Nintendo wants to keep the cost of their controllers down I doubt that they would put light gun technology, gyros, wifi, rumble all in the one controller?  It doesnt seem to be inline with their business model of having affordable products, but I could be wrong.

[mantidor]

"Or maybe Gamespot was bending the truth??"

Its probably something more like that, since the controller not finalized wasnt mentioned in the IGN version of the news, and knowing Matt, he wouldve point it out inmediately. Maybe it was some mistranslation, and Iwata and Miyamoto were refering to the past when they were making the controller and not the present.

[Ian Sane]

"Will it even have buttons?"

Why does this get brought up a lot?  Of course the controller will have buttons.  It would be a completely worthless hunk of sh!t if it didn't.  If the controller had no buttons I guarentee you the console would completely bomb.  That's just far too restrictive.  The DS has buttons so why not the Rev?  Plus the lighgun pointing idea could still work with an otherwise normal controller.  Just imagine the Cube controller only for some games you wave it around.

I'm starting to wonder if the controller isn't really the revolutionary part of the console or if it's not really the main part.  Nintendo keeps talking about how small the console is, how quiet it is, and how little power it uses.  It also only uses wi-fi.  Who cares how much power a home console uses and why such a focus on wi-fi when the thing is likely going to sit in someone's living room?  I'm thinking that perhaps Nintendo is trying to bridge the gap between the portable and console market by providing one system that works as both.  A Gameboy is a lot like a PDA in that it's pocket size but it doesn't use the same software or have the exact same functionality as the home model (console or PC).  The Rev however would be like a laptop in that it's not pocket size but is still portable and it doesn't sacrifice the features of a home model.  Nintendo could offer an optional screen and battery pack.  This would explain why the Rev can attach to PC monitors and why there's such a weird emphasis on power consumption.  This would also explain why they're so focused on wi-fi.  The Rev is tiny and with a screen attached you could probably quite easily put the whole thing in your lap and play it on an airplane.  This would be why Nintendo is releasing another GBA and why the DS focuses on being different instead of just offering the console experience on a portable like the PSP tries to do.  The existence of the GB Micro and the DS is puzzling if a new 3D Gameboy comes out.  They make perfect sense though if no Gameboy EVER comes out because Nintendo's home console is portable and thus the GBA, DS, and Revolution are three very different portable products.  The GBA has scaled down games in exchange for a pocket friendly size while the DS offers innovation and the Rev sacrifices pocket size to provide an authentic console experience on the road.

[jasonditz]

I'm with Ian, it better have buttons. At the same time, I fully expect the revolutionary aspect to lead to at least a couple of titles that don't require the use of buttons.

Kind of like how you really need buttons for Mario 64 DS, but you don't need them for Pac Pix or warioware

[mantidor]

why do you people always forget the Rev is completly backwards compatible... of course it will have buttons.

[Dasmos]

But the gamecube controllers can play all previous games.............there are ports for the GC controls on the rev.....so maybe the rev control will need no buttons...and to play previous games you need to purcahse a GC control