Topic: Are you a Mario-loving 10 year old?

[Mario]

Check out this review for Resident Evil 4 here, read the first paragraph, and discuss.

Sadly, this IS how a lot of people see Nintendo and even though this guy has probably never played another Nintendo game in his life, he probably never will because he doesn't want to be called a Mario-loving 10 year old by  his cool friends. He does show some praise to RE4 though, but this really highlights how much better the GameCube could be doing if they had a game like RE4 3 years ago.

I guess i'll just throw away my 40 GC games and use my Purple lunchbox as a doorstop since apparently it is worthless.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

My GameCube swings from the ceiling to bash burglars in the head like in Home Alone.

[Berto2K]

If anyone wants to send in their comments about his review:

Peter Hartlaub at . phartlaub@sfchronicle.com

[Hostile Creation]

I considered it, actually, but I don't think my fury could be summed up in words.
People insulting Nintendo pisses me off more than anything.  I never get mad at much, but that's one of the few things that'll get to me.  Criticizing them is fine, because I don't mind Ian Sane and people like that, but this moron?  Jeez.  Fury, I tell ya.

[Bloodworth]

The good news in this is that it is attracting the attention of people that aren't familiar with GameCube.  The bad news is that with insults like that in the media, some people might really think that they really would only be buying the system for one game, and that might not be worth it.

[Caillan]

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If you're not a Mario-loving 10-year-old or a confirmed pacifist, most video games released on the Game Cube are pretty close to worthless.

I always assumed that Nintendo's standard tiki-tik tiku!!! image was really only held by the stupidist of teenage forumers, a group that was particuarly vocal about their views. I expected most of the mainstream media to hold more moderate views. As a consequence, this surprised me.

Anyone who thinks this is obviously not a gamer, has no experience in gaming and is easily swayed by advertising; therefore Nintendo shouldn't bother marketing their systems to them. They will buy a Cube and two games, then bitch to all their super-cool friends about the Gamecube doesn't have enough games. They will play Wind Waker for 10 minutes then bitch that it's all tiku'd up. Then they will play Metroid Prime and bitch that it doesn't have dual-anolouge control. These are not consumers worth sacrificing a solid 'family friendly' image for.

There was a big crash a few decades ago when gaming went mainstream, and with upcomming price increases at the beginning of the next generation it's possible another will occur. A crash will be caused by casual gamers (perhaps the most targeted demographic right now) ceasing to buy games. Of course planning a business strategy around this theory is stupid, but Nintendo seem to be at least preparing for it, to some degree, with the DS and supposedly revolutionary Revolution. Remember Iwata yammering about saving the industry? I think this is what he was referring to.

[nionlights]

The review itself, after that nasty lead-in paragraph, is actually not completely terrible, especially for...well, a newspaper; I doubt that the Chronicle's editors put a lot of stress on their writers churning out the best of the best in video game-related journalism.

That being said, well, yeah, of course it's a no-brainer that this guy is slightly "misled."  If that's your perception, nowadays a lot of people tend to be "misled" into thinking this way about Nintendo.  Is that their fault, and that of the media?  Perhaps.  Does it help anyone who likes Nintendo, or Nintendo themselves, to whine about it or just notice how "utterly stupid and mainstream" these comments are?  Definitely not.

Everyone seems to think that it has to be one or the other - either you get the cookie-cutter blood and guts, kill to your heart's content games (of which there are several quality titles), or you get the masterpieces that Nintendo puts out.  I respectfully disagree.

And about those consumers that aren't worth sacrificing anything for.  What about consumers that want both?  I'd like to be able to enjoy the latest game from Nintendo while knowing that just about every other genre available to a gamer is not only available, but well covered.  I don't think that's too much to ask, and I don't think that it's an uncommon request.

Just my thoughts.  I, too, though, wouldn't be surprised at another crash in the industry, which I totally see Nintendo flying through.

[Bill Aurion]

The Nintendo Haters Club is in the works...More news once it takes off...

[Berto2K]

Quote
Originally posted by: nionlights
That being said, well, yeah, of course it's a no-brainer that this guy is slightly "misled."  If that's your perception, nowadays a lot of people tend to be "misled" into thinking this way about Nintendo.  Is that their fault, and that of the media?  Perhaps.  

It is completely the media's fault.  Their job is to do as much research so that they can accurately provide as much truth to their audience.

[Deguello]

He went beyond his editorial capacity and decided to review something else instead of RE4.  Instead of making it look like he has a "common man" writing style and a grasp of public opinion, he rather makes himself look like a jackass.

[nionlights]

Quote
Originally posted by: Berto2K

Quote
Originally posted by: nionlights
That being said, well, yeah, of course it's a no-brainer that this guy is slightly "misled."  If that's your perception, nowadays a lot of people tend to be "misled" into thinking this way about Nintendo.  Is that their fault, and that of the media?  Perhaps.  

It is completely the media's fault.  Their job is to do as much research so that they can accurately provide as much truth to their audience.

With respect to factual, journalistic news, I completely agree.  Op-ed pieces and reviews are a different story.  You can make ridiculous claims, you just need to base those claims on something.

And that's still not my point.  My question is, "Well, what the hell is Nintendo going to do about this bad press coverage?"  I'm pretty sure that it wasn't like this 10-15 years ago, although I admit I wasn't as well-read back then.  The question needs to be "How can Nintendo change the image that they give to mainstream journalists and media outlets?" or something of the sort.

Obviously, this guy used a little factoid sheet, or maybe did a google on video games, to write that first paragraph...or he's just completely ignorant.  I tend to believe the latter, as he seems to be the Chronicle's "Pop Culture Critic."  He's probably one of these PC-turned-Xbox gamers who sadly has a pen and an audience.

Oh, and I really don't think we can blame Nintendo's image/perception problem in large part on the media.  Sure, they don't help much at all, but I very much doubt that the "casual gamer" that has seemed to elude Nintendo for the last 7-8 years is an avid San Francisco Chronicle or New York Times fan.  Heck, I doubt that a lot of these so-called "casual gamers" frequently visit gaming sites on the web.  My point: word of mouth, kids with friends (so any kid), and commercials, among other things, have great impact on how the public receives a company like Nintendo's product(s), specifically the Gamecube.

[Ian Sane]

"Remember Iwata yammering about saving the industry? I think this is what he was referring to."

I think he's referring to the Japanese market where apparently the market is shrinking.

So Nintendo isn't cool to the mainstream.  I think that's been established by now.  What should Nintendo do?  Well I think there are four options:

1. Completely change and try to be exactly like Sony.  This would completely turn away the existing fanbase and is thus the worst option.  It also would have a really hard time succeeding since people aren't likely to go for a Sony wannabe when the real deal is available.

2. Go the complete opposite route and don't change at all and rely on the kids market and hardcore Nintendo fans.  This is obviously the easiest option to go with.  It's also risky since Nintendo's market share has shrunk with each generation.  Plus kids don't really like Nintendo's stuff anymore.  Kids always like "cool" stuff and kids tastes change all the time so it's not a market that is going to consistently support a company.  The Nintendo fans obviously are a safer bunch to target but the fanbase is shrinking.  A lot of fans really want Nintendo to succeed and strive to be number one.  With every generation it looks less likely that Nintendo is going to ever be number one again so with each new console a number of fans are getting fed up and bailing and not enough people are taking their place.  It's like the fans of a sports team.  They want the team to win.  If it appears the team not only can't win but isn't even trying then the fans start losing faith.  I don't think this is a good option and most fans, and Nintendo themselves, agree that there needs to be some change.  It's just debatable what that change should involve.

3. Go entirely niche.  Reject the mainstream and focus on grabbing hardcore gamers who will stick around through any crash.  I think Nintendo can pull this one off and could do a really good job with it.  The only problem is it requires a lot of hard work.  Virtually all genres have to covered.  There has to be variety in the lineup.  There needs to be third party support from developers that hardcore gamers like (ie: less THQ or EA and more Capcom or Treasure).  There needs to be options and that means online support, a flexible controller, demo discs, and support for high end audio and visual equipment.  In short this is Nintendo if Nintendo did everything right without compromising their gameplay philosophies to compete with Sony.  This is like the console that wins back everyone that left after the SNES but doesn't reach number one due to the huge casual market that has only played the Playstation brand.  The idea here is to seperate the hardcore and casual market to allow Nintendo and developers like them to make the games they want and make money doing it without having to deal with SCEA's corporate crap.  I feel this option is realistically achievable and financially beneficial.

4. Go halfway.  Try to keep the kids and Nintendo fans while trying to grab enough of the casuals to have a solid chunk of the market and enough third party support to keep fans happy and loyal.  This requires a balance between family games and cool games, sequels and original titles, first party and third party exclusives, and innovation and tried-and-true.  This is kind of what Nintendo tried to do with the Cube but ultimately failed at.  I think the reason it didn't work because Nintendo didn't put enough effort into getting the balance.  They released a few cool games and thought that was enough.  They got a few third party deals and thought that was enough.  They released a few new franchises and thought that was enough.  This option is doable but it requires a lot of effort from Nintendo.  I think they did this with the Cube, they just half assed it.  As for the benefits well that's kind of iffy.  By trying to please everyone the product ultimately gets watered down and in the end nobody is completely satisfied.  This option isn't bad but it doesn't always play to Nintendo's strengths and I think Nintendo would benefit more from focusing on a smaller market that they have the skills to please and then just delivering on all fronts in pleasing that market.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Quote
If you're not a Mario-loving 10-year-old or a confirmed pacifist, most video games released on the Game Cube are pretty close to worthless

The mainstream media strikes again

I'd like to say this is unimportant, but people who read this will begin to believe that nintendo is only for kids.

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The only problem is it requires a lot of hard work. Virtually all genres have to covered. There has to be variety in the lineup. There needs to be third party support from developers that hardcore gamers like (ie: less THQ or EA and more Capcom or Treasure).

Actually Nintendo has attempted to expand its third party support this gen, however most companies have this belief that third party games don't sell on the cube, which is false( Viewtiful Joe, soul calibur, godzilla and more all sold best on the cube), as a result the only send mediocre ports which most nintendo fans avoid and as a result the third party companies point out how their games aren't suitable for the cube, and the games that would sell well never appear on the cube.

 

[couchmonkey]

I bet this guy knows a thing or two about the GameCube, and simply prefers "adult" games.  I know a lot of people like that.  I think it's unfortunate for the art of videogame design and morally speaking as well, but these people aren't necessarily misinformed.  For example  I have two friends who play and enjoy GameCube games at my house and one of them even owns a GameCube himself...but ultimately both of them own and play Xbox far more than GameCube and think it's superior because they'd rather be playing graphically realistic and violent games.

Now, his comments were stupid and misleading, and he's probably not super-informed about all videogames, but I doubt he's completely ignorant either.  He's just reflecting basic casual opinions of the GameCube.  In some ways, RE4 makes me sad.  It proves that all North Americans want out of videogames is a lot of violence and photorealistic graphics.

What can Nintendo do?  Either ignore this type of press and aim for another audience, as Ian said, or promote a strong lineup of mature games and de-emphasize the likes of Mario and Pokemon.  I'd say going for another audience suits Nintendo better, but a combination of the two might work.

[Mario]

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Actually Nintendo has attempted to expand its third party support this gen, however most companies have this belief that third party games don't sell on the cube, which is false( Viewtiful Joe, soul calibur, godzilla and more all sold best on the cube), as a result the only send mediocre ports which most nintendo fans avoid and as a result the third party companies point out how their games aren't suitable for the cube, and the games that would sell well never appear on the cube.

Yeah there's a major reversal of cause and effect happening there, it's hard for me to understand some third parties logic sometimes, they give us crappy ports because they think good ports don't sell, even though all they gave us was crappy ports to begin with?

"Hmm, our crap isn't selling, I know! Let's just give them more crap!"
"But sir maybe if we gave them a good game.. people would buy it?"
"A what?"
"A... good game"
"You're fired"

[odifiend]

I hate that third parties don't take any risks with Nintendo at all anymore.  Soul Calibur 2 was a blessing and a curse.  Great game, and huge success story.  However most attribute that success to Link and which has in turn forced Nintendo to loan out their characters, thus perpetuating the stereotypes.  Vicious Cycles everywhere...  

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Although Link being in the game was a bonus for GC owners it wasn't the main reason it sold so well(I mean Godzilla  didn't have Yoshi in it and it still sold very well)

[mantidor]

mediocre graphics!? is he on crack? damn, its hard to be a Nintendo fan, isnt it? Im getting sick if this crap, but then I go to play MP or the Wind Waker and I forget about all this  

[odifiend]

I understand Godzilla sold decently and well relative to the Xbox version, whereas Soul Calibur sold tens of thousands more even though the installed base relative to the PS2, anyway, was substantially smaller.  But yeah I agree, Soul Calibur 2 was a solid game but it did kind of spark this present loaning out characters thing.

[KDR_11k]

Never try to understand the mainstream. Many people believe any FPS has to be realistic and Quake "sucks because those weapons behave completely unrealistic!". They have one expectation and demand that every game matches it. So every game should be an ultra-realistic shooter, for example. Those people will diss anything that doesn't match their really narrow scope.

[Bill Aurion]

Yeah, like all current FPSers are realistic with all the strafing...

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Well if you want to be realistic then most people should be dead after getting hit once in an FPS, not to mention even if the shot isn't fatal it should show a significant decline in the characters abilities due to traumatic injury.

[ib2kool4u912]

I love the line about Nintendo fans being "confirmed pacifists" especially since if i remember correctly, the best selling game for Gamecube is in fact a fighting game.

And for the record, I am a Mario-loving 14 year old.

[Gamefreak]

The funny thing is, I've never met anyone in person who though the Gamecube was for little kids or whatever. If I had never been on the internet before and someone told me the GCN was a system for little kids I seriously would be very confused.

In my school, no one really mentions or talks about the PS2. It's sort of just there..most people have one, no one talks about it. The Xbox definately is more talked about, mainly because of Halo 2 on Xbox Live. But everyone I've talked to about games (and this is especially true of people who own Xbox's as opposed to PS2's) have a lot of respect for the GCN and its exclusive games. Like this one kid who is an Xbox freak, all he talks about is Halo 2 and Ninja Gaiden and whatever, one day we actually started talking and I was really surprised when he started talking about how he wished he had a GCN for games like Viewtiful Joe and Resident Evil 4 and the new Zelda game. After knowing this kid for 3 years I wouldn't have even though he'd have any idea what Viewtiful Joe was. And when I criticized Halo 2's story mode and how it seemed rushed and unfinished he completely agreed with me, which was really unexpected given how he constantly gushes about the game.

Maybe people are just more mature where I live or something....  

[Infernal Monkey]

Hey guys I'm here to review Resident Evil 4.

Resident Evil 4 is a new game for Nintendo GameCube. Nintendo GameCube is purple, it makes me question my sexuality because I was obviously never very secure in the first place. So in closing, I will make a quick mention that Nintendo GameCube is for babies.

Oh. Ooooh, the game? Yeah.. uh.. the game. It was.. uh.. good.. I think. I dunno, I was too afriad to put it in the purple machine so I'll just say it's good because the back of the box has pretty pictures.