Topic: LOZ: 2005

[Hostile Creation]

I downloaded the entire Wind Waker soundtrack (would buy it if I could find it and know it wasn't pirated anyway), and I must say it's incredibly awesome.  I remember a few songs from OoT. . . Song of Storms is one of the best songs ever written, but the rest of the soundtrack is less impressive to me.  Believe me, I like all of it, especially stuff like Saria's Song and Gerudo Valley, but I think I prefer the Wind Waker music by a very narrow margin.  I didn't remember much of it, since it blended with the environments so well, but when I listened to it while not playing the game it simply blew me away.
Now, I haven't done that with OoT's soundtrack, so I can't really say for sure, but as it is now I like the Wind Waker soundtrack more.

[Don'tHate742]

Gerudo Valley was great. And thank you for reminding me of Dragoon Roost Island. That's a song I do remember.

You must also realize that the N64 sound processor sucked donkey ****s, compared to the GameCube. So if OOT were to be brought up to the level that WindWaker is at, to be compared fairly, I think OOT would win; even if by a small margin.

If I can ask without being moderated....Hostile C: where'd you get the WW soundtrack? I'd love to hear it since i'm thousands of miles away from my beloved cube.  

[Don'tHate742]

whoops Double Post

[Bill Aurion]

You need to turn on your PMs...

[couchmonkey]

I like Ian's point about classic game music.  There's something about music from the 8 and 16-bit eras that is really memorable to me.  One of the big things is the basic simplicity of it: everything had to be really straightforward and melodic and that resulted in some of the most memorable songs I've heard in my life.  I will often randomly break out in the Super Mario Bros. or Legend of Zelda themes when I'm alone and bored.  Of course, there's also something to be said for the repetition of the music in those games and the amount of time I spent playing them relative to modern games, but I think the simplicity had a lot to do with it.

As for Ocarina of Time versus Wind Waker, I'd agree that Ocarina of Time is more catchy, but if I went back and played both, I think I'd like them about equally.  I was a little disappointed that the Wind Waker's soundtrack didn't stand up to the opening song in terms of the quality of the instrumentation.  I love Nintendo's compositions but, after playing Super Smash Bros. Melee and listening to live versions of Nintendo music online, the games could sound so much better.  Even with Midi I'm sure they could manage better quality, just look at some of the stuff Rare and Factor 5 have done.

[Bill Aurion]

I was a little disappointed that the Wind Waker's soundtrack didn't stand up to the opening song in terms of the quality of the instrumentation

Whoa, back up here...You can't be serious...I don't know a single person that didn't realize that Wind Waker's soundtrack wasn't orchestrated...

[Don'tHate742]

Orchestrated is good, but it isn't great. What matters is the melody. If the melody is good, it doesn't matter if you play it with a real flute or synth flute, it is going to sound good. What's best about orchestration and using real instruments are the human effects that can't be replecated (like hand drums for instance).

I made a thread awhile ago (like a year ago) about video game music. I also wanted music in games to be taken very seriously, for it does wonders to the end product. I gave an example, Requiem for a Dream I think. That movie was terribly sad all on it's own, but I think what really helped was the intense music and sad melodies. Also, look at Gladiator; the music helped me realize his fate. Same with The Rock. I know all of those are very good movies, but you can't say the soundtrack didn't help.

I think Mario 64 had that. Along with Zelda OOT....MM not as much, but WW had it too in some points (like the Forest Haven). This is off-topic but I loved the music that played in the flying levels in Mario, as well as that level with the eel and abandoned ship. Sunshine had to much tropical based music (I realize that it was based on a Tropical Island, but that was also one of it's flaws). Nintendo made Mario 64 perfect in my opinion. It was exactly what I wanted, a 3-D 2-D Mario. It had the worlds/levels I remember when playing something like SM 3 as well as many other new ones. [/off-topic]

[Hostile Creation]

Metroid Prime has just about the best mood music ever.  But I agree, music is a very essential part of the gameplay experience, and I don't think Requiem for a Dream would have been half as good as it is if that song hadn't been in it

[Hemmorrhoid]

What do you guys think of the music in the miniscule Zelda 2005 Trailer? I dont really know what to think of it, but it certainly sounds promising

[Bill Aurion]

The trailer is available in two flavors of music...1) The standard Zelda trailer music (Conan the Barbarian-style) and 2) original music made just for the trailer...Either way, neither is really an indication of what style Zelda XII will be using...

[couchmonkey]

I'm not sure what you mean, Bill...I'm well aware Wind Waker wasn't orchestrated and I guessed it wouldn't be long before I played it.  But the opening song really had me excited, and then I got into the game and (to my inexperienced ears) it sounded like the rest of the Zelda titles (edit: minus the Gameboy and NES games, of course).  Which is still great, but I think that a lot more is possible with the GameCube.

On a not-whiney note there were a lot of things that Nintendo did really well in that game too.  I won't deny that the battle music wouldn't be half as cool if it were some pre-recorded orchestral theme.  I love the way every blow is punctuated by music, and the way the music changes as Link does better or worse.  I also think the way the game uses silence was great: the transition between sailing and landing on an island is barely noticeable but it really changes the mood from adventuring to relaxing or thinking.  There are a lot of great songs in the game as well; the sailing theme didn't impress me the first time I heard it but now when it comes to mind I feel like I'm starting out on a journey.  

[mantidor]

Quote
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742

I think Mario 64 had that. Along with Zelda OOT....MM not as much,

I totally disagree, for me Majora's Mask has the best music. I just love the song of healing, so melancholic and sad, funny thing is Saria's song backwards. Seriously the Clock Town theme and how it changed every day sounding more creepy every time was awesome, and the background music when midnight of the third day starts was so moody, I jsut love that game so much.

[Don'tHate742]

Ya right now actually, i'm debating if it's my favorite Zelda or not. That game had alot of things going for it...ALOT. I don't care if Link was an adult during OOT, it doesn't compare to what young link went through in his adventure (though the spirit temple was just a blast to play). Each mask was great, along with the mini things that came with it. Swimming as a zora was great, rolling as a goron was fun also, and playing his drums was fantastic.  I think that game is seriously under-rated.

I have to play to be sure, but until I do, I can safely say it's in the top three. Anyways, I don't remember the clock town music changing by each day. I do remember that creepy little town, with the mummy thing outside of the door...that music was on the wierd/creepy side. I have to play it again, for I don't remember. I could very well be wrong about MM not being up to par with Mario and OOT.


Anyways on a different note. Do you guys remember (in OOT) the two iron knuckles guarding the passage to the stairs (which led to Gannondorf) in Gannondorf's castle?  I never had so much fun during battle before. It was halarious to hit them both at the same time, and then try to take them out without getting scratched. I would reset my nintendo just to play that part again and again. I was so dissapointed that there wasn't a really powerful unit in WW. The iron knuckles were okay, but once you figured how to take them out they went down quick. Actually same with most of the bosses.....

[Bill Aurion]

The iron knuckles were okay, but once you figured how to take them out they went down quick. Actually same with most of the bosses.....

I assume you mean "Darknuts"...But this is amusing, as Iron Knuckles in OoT are also very easy to take down...Gohma in the Deku Tree is also the most ridiculously easy boss ever...

[Ian Sane]

The first time I fought an Iron Knuckle in OoT I thought I was so f*cked.  After I beat him I was literally shaking with adrenalin.  Of course they became easier once I figure out a strategy.  And Gohma is only easy if you think to shoot her eye when she climbs on the ceiling.  The first time I played I had no idea I could do that so I had to fight her the "real" way which with only three hearts is reasonably tough.  I view the easy way of beating Gohma as a secret.  Most people probably don't know about it without a faq.  Plus having the very first boss out of of like ten being easy isn't a big deal.

In a well designed Zelda game the first time you fight an enemy it should be brutal but once you figure out what to do it should be easy.  I felt that Wind Waker for example didn't quite have that as with most new enemies I just waited until the A button flashed and dodged them easily.  It was like most of the enemies had the exact same strategy and I could apply the strategy I used for Moblins with most enemies I encountered.  The timed dodge probably made things too easy.  Those same enemies within the limitations of the N64 Zeldas' fighting system would probably be much harder.

[Bill Aurion]

I view the easy way of beating Gohma as a secret. Most people probably don't know about it without a faq. Plus having the very first boss out of of like ten being easy isn't a big deal.

You can view all Zelda bosses as having "secrets"...When you are an experienced Zelda player you realize that you need to use the tool you collected in said dungeon to defeat the boss...Because a lot of people gained this experience, the bosses of WW only SEEM easier...Take my sister for example...Wind Waker was her first Zelda game and it took her quite a while to figure out that she needed to use her grappling hook on the Dragon's tail on the ceiling...

[Don'tHate742]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
The first time I fought an Iron Knuckle in OoT I thought I was so f*cked.  After I beat him I was literally shaking with adrenalin.  Of course they became easier once I figure out a strategy.  And Gohma is only easy if you think to shoot her eye when she climbs on the ceiling.  The first time I played I had no idea I could do that so I had to fight her the "real" way which with only three hearts is reasonably tough.  I view the easy way of beating Gohma as a secret.  Most people probably don't know about it without a faq.  Plus having the very first boss out of of like ten being easy isn't a big deal.

In a well designed Zelda game the first time you fight an enemy it should be brutal but once you figure out what to do it should be easy.  I felt that Wind Waker for example didn't quite have that as with most new enemies I just waited until the A button flashed and dodged them easily.  It was like most of the enemies had the exact same strategy and I could apply the strategy I used for Moblins with most enemies I encountered.  The timed dodge probably made things too easy.  Those same enemies within the limitations of the N64 Zeldas' fighting system would probably be much harder.

Exactly how I felt about WW. It was too easy to figure out the easy way to kill them. It usually came down to, "alright, I got this item in this dungeon, so the boss must have a weakness related....I GOT IT!" Overall OOT was hard becuase it was amazingly brutal if you didn't know there was an alternate means to fighting. Then when you know, it's like playing two different bosses.  Like the second boss, the big lizard thing...I knew I had to throw a bomb in its mouth, then deal out damage, but after....I RAN MY ASS OFF! I didn't know you could stand to the side (right next to the pit of HOT BURNING LAVA) and watch the big dummy roll by.

I assume you mean "Darknuts"...But this is amusing, as Iron Knuckles in OoT are also very easy to take down...

The first time you faced them, you didn't know what to do. I got hit once and almost died. They were so intimidating. That's a big factor when facing an enemy....an enemy that looks bad*ss usually means that it is. Once you new the timing of things, ya they were easy.....really only cuase they were slow. When you hit both at the same time (like i mentioned), they usually attack when the other is recovering....so it was like facing a faster more powerful Iron Knuckle, which is the hardest enemy I have every faced, even hard then some bosses.

[Ian Sane]

"You can view all Zelda bosses as having 'secrets'...When you are an experienced Zelda player you realize that you need to use the tool you collected in said dungeon to defeat the boss"

Well yeah.  I knew to use the slingshot to beat Gohma.  Her eye turns the right colour right before she attacks so stand still and wait until the very last minute to shoot.  Then she'll climb the wall and drop eggs.  Destroy the eggs and creatures that come out of them.  Then she'll come down and you do it all over again.  However her eye also turns the right colour when she climbs the wall at which point you can just lock-on and pelt her full of Deku seeds until she's dead.  That was the secret method.  If you didn't notice her eye changing colour as she climbed then she was much harder and you were still using a correct strategy and still using the dungeon item.

As Don'tHate mentioned King Dodongo was the same way.  The first few times he went by I curled up in my shield and had him run over me.  Then I tried running.  Then I tried curling up in the corner.  Then I realized I didn't even have to use the shield if I stood near the edge.  This whole time I knew to use the bombs in his mouth I just didn't know anything beyond that.

[Don'tHate742]

Thus the beauty of the Zelda series.......  

[mantidor]

Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Take my sister for example...Wind Waker was her first Zelda game and it took her quite a while to figure out that she needed to use her grappling hook on the Dragon's tail on the ceiling...

It was the same for me I can only stare intrigued at all the people that says the WW was ridiculously easy... I never died, but I never felt that there wasnt enough challenge, there are times when you are so overwhelmed by the number of monsters that just keep and keep appearing than you start to think if you might get out of there alive. And I had also a hard time with Ganon's puppet.

[Hostile Creation]

Y'know, I've fought the final boss in Wind Waker about fifteen or so times.
Every time it got easier.  I learned the trick for the spider puppet, I got used to the moblin puppet, I could climb up like an ace, and I could defeat Ganondorf on the roof with relative ease.
But the third stage of the puppet, the worm/snake. . . I swear, that bastard got harder every time I played.  Only boss ever that I had a harder time beating it later than I did the first time (where I remember having no trouble at all with it).

Just thought I should mention that.
I don't remember Iron Knuckles particularly exciting me.  They were just something I had to fight to keep playing.  I like the combat in Wind Waker a lot more.  You don't have to use the parry attack if you don't want to, you realize.  There are so many ways to fight, it's an absolute blast.
That said, I would like to see at least one terrifying enemy in the new game, one that you're paranoid about fighting even long after you've fought them for the first time.

[couchmonkey]

Yeah, the worm stage of the puppet is pretty hard.  It's just so random!  I don't think I had more trouble with it as I went along, but everything else got so much easier that that part seems so hard now.

[Hemmorrhoid]

Im amazed how well you bunch remember fragments of the game and the music, I can hardly recall that stuff, atleast not in that much detail. Am I the only one thats having difficulty following???

[vudu]

Sadly, I don't seem to remember lots of the details for Wind Waker.  I'm going to need to go back and replay that one.

As far as music goes, I don't pay as much attention to it as some people around here do.  While I always enjoy it while playing the game, I typically forget it soon after.  A notable exception to that is the music from the Deku village at the beginning of Ocarina of Time.  Sometimes I'll be walking down the hall and start humming it for no reason in particular.

Dum-da-dum, dum-da-dum, dum-da-dum-da-dum, dum-da-dum-da-dum, dum-dum-da-dum.

[Don'tHate742]

haha yeah I here ya Kingvudu.

I honestly forgot about that puppet boss. I remember having trouble with it also, but it's odd how I completely forgot it. It's weird, I remember every single boss in OOT, but I forget the ones in MM (except for some) and WW.  The music is another, I can reminder that pretty well cuase...I just love good music.