Topic: GDC Iwataton Speech Thread

[BigJim]

"Hey, if you've got a problem with it, take it up with Nintendo. This really isn't the place for that unless all you want is a flame war."

This isn't the place for what?  This is a discussion forum. There is a discussion going on. Nobody's flaming anything.


"As if, Twilight Princess isn't a gamer's game, give me a break. You're both dismissing revolution before you even know what is available or give it a try. Then again I guess you wouldn't even give it a fair shake anyway."

1. TP is still a GameCube game.

2. I didn't dismiss anything. Don't create debates that aren't there. I distinctly said, "it's not unfair for some GAMERS to ask what'll be in it for them." There is nothing dismissive about it. It's asking "What else?"

3. Nintendo has every opportunity to show us what they have in store for gamers. They have yet to do that. They've even said as much. If they have a convincing story, then I'll buy. That is nothing if not a completely "fair shake."


"Oh geez if this isn't the Pot calling the kettle black.... Emotion engine anyone? Toystory level graphics? Or how about Peter Moore talking for Microsoft, "Next generation games will combine unprecedented audio and visual experiences to create worlds that are beyond real and they'll deliver storylines and game play so compelling that it will feel like living a lucid dream."

What? You're gonna have to tie your point together a little better here 'cause I have no idea what that has to do with what I said? You took it out of context without looking at what I meant when I said it.

[Galford]

'So making games more expensive, and diminishing profits is what you consider 'thinking about the 3rd parties'?

True, but every comment made by Nintendo is with Rev you do things Nintendo's way or the highway.  Read what the developers at Panademic said,  it's kinda makes me nervous.  While still not as bas as the N64 days, Nintendo is still too indifferent to 3rd parties.

The few third parties who excited about the Rev are talking about how they can reuse their XBox assests to make Rev games???

Still, I guess it's a little early for me to jump the shark.

[wandering]

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To make someting mainstream you have to make it for the lowest common demnominator (or commonize it). And nothing good comes from doing that.

Making things for the lowest common denominator may be bad. But trying to get the lowest common denominator into something that's actually good...eh. Shakespeare's plays had high drama...but they also had sex jokes.

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Uh-oh. Ian's worst fears confirmed!"

No sh!t. You're not supposed to tell us that kind of stuff Iwata.

Two things about this:

First, he might not've been talking about motion control itself. I'm thinking he was probably refering to the single a button, remote-shape, modular design, etc. I still think motion control is something they've been toying with for a while.

Second, the only thing that matters is the final product. When comedians sit down to write, they actively try to be funny. That doesn't mean the end result isn't funny.

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I don't want all the new ideas to be targeted to non-gamers and so far on the DS that's the case.

Have you looked at Phantom Hourglass? Lots of new ideas there. But I guess you're talking about original franchises. In which case, before the ds, how many franchises did Nintendo even start on handhelds in the first place?

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Originally posted by: vudu

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Retro helped deleop the nunchaku?

That was my first thought, too. That's awesome. It means Nintendo is placing much more emphasis on the western audience than they have in the past.

It makes me feel better about Nintendo too. But it also really surprised me. Was Nintendo really planning on making all their  franchise games with just the remote? Or did planning on games not start until Retro 'completed' the design by helopnig them add the nunchaku?

It also fills me with a lot more confidence in Retro. Nintendo wouldn't have trusted them to help design the controller if they weren't really talented... and not just a one-hit-wonder.

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Originally posted by: BigJim
3. Nintendo has every opportunity to show us what they have in store for gamers. They have yet to do that. They've even said as much. If they have a convincing story, then I'll buy. That is nothing if not a completely "fair shake."

They haven't shown us what's in store, period. So they've been focasing on non-gamers in an attempt to boost sales. That doesn't mean Nintendo, which is run by a game developer, and generally places enoromous power in the hands of it's creative types, has suddenly lost it's ability to make great games. So they've released (fantastic) games like Nintendogs on the DS. That doesn't mean that they won't continue to release epic games on their consoles.

[IceCold]

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True, but every comment made by Nintendo is with Rev you do things Nintendo's way or the highway. Read what the developers at Panademic said, it's kinda makes me nervous. While still not as bas as the N64 days

That's far, far from the truth. Nintendo, at the moment, is closer to key third parties than they have been for a good many years. They built the ties in the GameCube generation through licensing their franchises and strengthening relationships, and that is carrying over for the Revolution. Just look at Square-Enix; they are much closer to Nintendo now. They have all the important Japanese developers too - Konami, Capcom, Namco etc on their side. And developers that didn't give them the time of day in the GameCube era (Midway, Tecmo) are considering the Revolution. EA has been complimentary.

And to put the icing on the cake, they're going to all the major third parties and giving them ideas on how to implement ideas for the new controller into the franchises of the third parties. They're doing all they can to ensure that the Revolution is strongly backed.

And I'm sorry, but how can you even be thinking of "jumping the shark" if you've come so far? There are two points of separation; TGS 2005 and E3 2006. If you didn't write off the controller at TGS, then what happened recently that has changed your mind? I could understand if after the E3 blowout you decide that the Revolution isn't for you, but now?  

EDIT: And about Iwata saying that they were toying with the controller for a while, it never even came across my mind that it was the motion sensing tech. I'm sure it's just the ergonomics, like wandering said..

[BigJim]

"Thank you for listening to my stories this morning. However, the most important story of all is still to be told. I hope all of you, the creative force of our industry, will help us write it. It is the story of how disruption will help every one of us overcome the growing barriers to game development." --Iwata.

It sounds like the "one more story to tell" thing was taken a bit out of context, seeing this in the transcript.


"They haven't shown us what's in store, period. So they've been focasing on non-gamers in an attempt to boost sales. That doesn't mean Nintendo, which is run by a game developer, and generally places enoromous power in the hands of it's creative types, has suddenly lost it's ability to make great games. So they've released (fantastic) games like Nintendogs on the DS. That doesn't mean that they won't continue to release epic games on their consoles."

You're right, and that's why I remain open to Revolution (I was accused of not being open to it). We don't know what's in store exactly. All we know is what they've told us. "Non-gamer this, non-gamer that. And oh yeah gamer stuff too." I'm not an old coot stuck in my ways and only like *my* type of games, but I do have tastes as well. I'm open to new types of games, but I want the games I like too.  Unfortunately, there haven't been any non-games yet that I am interested in (it's not for lack of trying them) so if the trend continues, and their lack of enthusiasm about gamer-games in speeches is any indication of their actual practice, there's valid reason to wonder.  That being said, I'm just waiting for E3, impatiently, to finally have some real information and not just crazy Iwata quotes to go by.

The difference between this generation and last is that we saw demos for Luigi, Zelda, Star Wars, Wave Race etc. a year before GameCube launched. There was something tangible to get excited about. Nintendo has been talking about Revolution for two years now, giving us only crazy quotes, vague ideologies and promises of greatness, but we haven't seen anything yet. By the time they show us anything it'll be only 6 months away from launch. I just don't get excited by years of PR, vague ideas and promises. It's been two years of cockteasing. I'm done. I've *been* done. I want to see it. Sh!t or get off the pot.

Like today's Zelda DS unveiling. It's tangible. It's totally awesome. Gimme. Now.

I do believe there will be epics, but I don't believe the notion that all non-games materialize out of nothing. Whether it has anything to do with the non-games focus or not, the rate of blockbusters on GameCube started out strong (especially in year 2) then slowed to a crawl. Blockbusters shouldn't be annual or semi-annual events. There should be more regularity. I'm glad to see Nintendo working more closely with 3rd parties, so hopefully that will develop into more blockbuster epics to come. I'm in full "wait and see" mode until there's something to talk about. Pardon the occasional buzz-kill, but while all we have are opinions to share while we wait, those are mine.  

[Artimus]

These threads are getting so repetitive it must be genocide.

[Ian Sane]

"It makes me feel better about Nintendo too. But it also really surprised me. Was Nintendo really planning on making all their franchise games with just the remote? Or did planning on games not start until Retro 'completed' the design by helopnig them add the nunchaku?"

Honestly I don't think they really thought it through too much.  Nintendo typically has a very narrow focus when they design controllers.  They have a specific idea of what they want to do and don't really think that maybe someone wants to make a different type of game than they would and thus may need something else included.  Remember the original Cube controller didn't have a d-pad though in the end some of Nintendo's Cube games would not be playable with their original Cube controller design.

I think the motion control idea was always there and the whole remote design and two buttons was a result of trying to target non-gamers so as to not be intimidating.  I am quite concerned though that Nintendo really did think that the remote was all they needed.

My main concerns come from the fact that when Nintendo is interested in something they go at it full force but when they're not they neglect it.  When they go on and on about non-gamers and then mention existing gamers as an afterthought it highly suggests that in reality existing gamers will be an afterthought because that's how Nintendo does things.  The big example is mature games.  Nintendo doesn't want to make mature games and it's pretty damn obvious.  So they have second and third parties make a few games here or there and they don't market them worth crap.  They just throw us a bone so they can say "see we're doing this" but their heart isn't into it.  Another example is the market outside of Japan.  All Nintendo talks about is how successful they're doing in Japan.  America isn't their focus and it's obvious because they designed a global strategy based entirely on how things are in Japan.  The American DS launch was complete sh!t because it's clear NCL didn't really care provided that everything was ready for the "real" launch in Japan.  When something is not Nintendo's focus they half-ass it.  So there's justifiably fear that the same thing will happen here.

[Plugabugz]

"My main concerns come from the fact that when Nintendo is interested in something they go at it full force but when they're not they neglect it."

Ian Sane for president of Nintendo Europe.

[MaryJane]

I don't remember who said it either Iwata or that Beth chick IGN interviewed but one of them, most likely beth said that they're looking to model the revolution's system structure to that of the of DS to hopefully reproduce the same impact on the market. (that makes me think of something else but i'll get to it later) how many of these so called non-games are there on the DS? I have 8 DS games atm. Super Mario 64, Metroid Prime: Hunters, Tetris DS, Mario and Luigi Partners in Time, Age of Empires, Nintendogs(technically my moms but i bought it for her, and play it), Trauma Center, and Mario Kart.

I only have one non-game and there are only like 3 stateside. there are a ton of great games on the DS and only a few are non-games, things like Trauma Center and Pheonix Wright(although i've never played it) are examples of non-traditional games, but they are definitely games, the intensity of some of the surgeries in Trauma Center can compare with some of my memorable boss battles in "regular" games. Things like Nintendogs and Brain Training, are marketed or created for a certain type of gamer, but us "traditionalist" and complainers still get our plates full of goodies. The revolution will be the same, if anything it'll be more of a 50/50 split. But look at the few games we know about that are in development for Rev that we actually know about how many are non-games. Not many. New game types; trauma center and non game types; nintendogs, are nothing to be scared of, they are here to stay and personally i want more, anything that expands and gives more diversity is a good thing in my eyes.

Ok and the thing I thought of earlier. nintendo said they don't consider xbox360 and ps3 to really be competition bcuz of how different their strategies are. that's pretty similar to how they push this whole 3 pillar thing with the gba. the ds and gba are two different entities so they're aren't in competition with each other. well there was a noticeable decline not only in games for gba but in sales of hardware. although both are doing well. Hopefully although Nintendo doesnt see their competition as such, the rev will have the same affect on them as the DS did on the gba, they can stick around if they want to but there's a new king in town.  

[jasonditz]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane

I think the motion control idea was always there and the whole remote design and two buttons was a result of trying to target non-gamers so as to not be intimidating.  I am quite concerned though that Nintendo really did think that the remote was all they needed.

Actually if you read the transcript of Iwata's speech they already had the idea of the revmote AND the shell controller before they talked to Retro. Miyamoto came up with the shell controller... so no, they didn't really think the remote was all they needed.

[Chode2234]

NEWSFLASH
----------------------------

Nintendo's focus has been to their investors, stockholders, and other business stakeholders.  All this talk is to show the suits that they have a strategy to make money.  They haven't really begun to sell to the public yet.  They are just getting their house in order and all the stakeholders on board for what will be a very interesting time.  

I would just ignore all the comments until E3, they obviously aren't really speaking to you.  

More at 11:00...

[jasonditz]

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Originally posted by: Chode2234
NEWSFLASH
----------------------------

Nintendo's focus has been to their investors, stockholders, and other business stakeholders.  All this talk is to show the suits that they have a strategy to make money.  They haven't really begun to sell to the public yet.  They are just getting their house in order and all the stakeholders on board for what will be a very interesting time.  

I would just ignore all the comments until E3, they obviously aren't really speaking to you.  

More at 11:00...

Just because they're not speaking to us doesn't mean the statements are false. Nor is a statement not directed at trying to sell us something necessarily less informative.

[wandering]

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Nor is a statement not directed at trying to sell us something necessarily less informative.

yeah, but with Nintendo, none of their statements are ever informative....

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The difference between this generation and last is that we saw demos for Luigi, Zelda, Star Wars, Wave Race etc. a year before GameCube launched.

I like to think that they're not showing us anything because the software theiy're cooking up is much more exciting than the stuff they had for GameCube. But we'll see! Glad you're keeping yourself open to Nintendo, BTW.

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Actually if you read the transcript of Iwata's speech they already had the idea of the revmote AND the shell controller before they talked to Retro. Miyamoto came up with the shell controller... so no, they didn't really think the remote was all they needed.

I had forgotten that. Interesting that Miyamoto's original design (classic controller with removable wand) is something Ian suggested awhile back.

[IceCold]

I thought Ian, if the motion sensing feature were to be included, wanted it to be built into the shell and not have separate parts.. *shrug*

[jasonditz]

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Originally posted by: IceCold
I thought Ian, if the motion sensing feature were to be included, wanted it to be built into the shell and not have separate parts.. *shrug*

I think he was operating under the assumption that their idea was the single-hand remote with a few buttons and a dpad and that's it (which would be troubling). Then Retro convinced them to add the nunchuk. I can see where you'd get that idea from a lot of the summaries I've read, but if you read the actual transcript, when Miyamoto was first presented with the revmote (and you can be sure that was very early on in the planning stages), he recognized that it's inadequate for a lot of games, and came up with the shell idea.