Topic: My Name is Justin Nation... and I HATE 1-2-Switch (but others like it)...

[Justin Nation]

Not sure who here may even remember me anymore but I'm a massive Nintendo fanboy (and I may have spent some time on this sort of thing at some point) and, even as much as I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, 1-2-Switch STILL pisses me off. If anything, I may actually be most irritated by the fact that my issues with the game are mostly preventable and boil down to marketing, how they've apparently structured it, and how it stands out among so many steps forward as a step back.


I have my Switch impressions article going through the process and it will touch on some of this in that space. Wondering what people would think about something more long form, a sort of rant on the game and the missed opportunities and misfires I see in it.


Oh, and how are some of the old folks doing? It's been a (long) while...

[Soren]

1,2 Switch is the game this forum is least sold on going by the poll of 1st party games I ran.

This game suffers the same problem as NintendoLand for me. I don't play local multiplayer games. It will probably be good and polished but ultimately I don't care. And I doubt much of the west really cares either.

Part of the problem stems from its long, drawn out introduction during the Nintendo Switch event, which in itself also hurt the Switch because of the focus on the controllers instead of the initial hook of the teaser trailer.

[ClexYoshi]

First of all, good to see you on the forums! my introduction to you was for Dr. Metts' book interview, as I didn't start lurking around this corner of the internet until early 2011.

Secondly, 1, 2, switch is a difficult thing to quantify... like, I actually get the actual value of this game, but it DESPERATLEY needed to be a pack-in game. the idea here is that this is your convversation starter. some of the promotional material for this is PERFECT. more often than not, I get dragged to say... a high school graduation for one of my father's friend's kids or for a cousin's friend's party of some sort. sometimes, this tends to be a backyard BBQ or like... at a gazebo at a park out in the middle of nowhere.

Normally, I'll either be an anti-social boob and play some sort of 3DS title, or i'll bring SOMETHING that's a conversation starter as a way to break the ice. something ridiculous. sometimes, that ends up being my kirby figure, unto which I then post to twitter a series of pictures of Kirby feasting upon delicious italian beef with sweet peppers or something. it's dumb and harmless other than making people think i'm a giant man-child, but... what else is new?

1, 2, switch is just stupid and ridiculous enough, as well as being the natural sequel to Wild Gunman that this would have been PERFECT as either a pack-in, or as something sold piecemeal digitally. This game's value is in the same value as say... assembling a flash mob. it's attention grabbing idiocy that draws eyeballs to the two morons playing, and to your Nintendo Switch. By proxy, this game pretty much is the word of mouth marketing they want. it's also quite possible that this is the game that nintendo might not be able to monetize gameplay of people on the internet playing.

[Justin Nation]

In order to not get into complete rant mode here (will save it for an article) I'll be very brief:


1) It is possible to argue what merits it has, regardless of shortcomings, but nothing will justify the price they are charging ($10 less than Zelda stings)
2) Let's say you have a family, you get the Switch, and this is the ONLY game you get, believing it represents Nintendo's best foot forward for this new awesome platform. Again, considering the price, when everyone settles into the fact that once you play most of these mini-games more than 2 - 3 times you've exhausted pretty much everything there is to do... the system is about to sit an get dusty
3) There are cheaper and, I'd argue, better party games coming to Switch right off the bat in terms of number of people who can play, likely longevity, and even crazy fun. Quiplash 2, included in Jackbox Party Pack 3 I guarantee would create a far more raucous and funny situation even right off the bat, but certainly over a longer haul. It is probably the best party game I've ever played, and at a party where we played it first and then Cards Against Humanity (with even all of its high praises) pretty well everyone decided to go back to Quiplash.

There's more, but again, I think I'll save for a full-on rant. Just with the points trying to elaborate on a bigger picture to this and why it has me irritated. I think Nintendo may actually be harming themselves, and not just for the normal kiddie or waggle-fest arguments... but very objective and fair criticisms. Just so much great in this launch and early on and this is SUCH a collective turd.

[Luigi Dude]

If you don't like it, don't buy it, problem solved.

Seriously, there's a reason the Super Bowl add that million of people saw focused on just Zelda.  Yes Nintendo wants 1-2 Switch to become the next Wii Sports but they're not crazy enough to try and force that to happen.  Right now, Zelda looks to probably have an over 80% attachment rate at the Switch launch so for all purposes, Zelda is the game most will be associating the Switch with.

Unless there's some disastrous secret we don't know yet that's going to cause Breath of the Wild to get terrible reviews and kill it's word of mouth, any potential 1-2 Switch shortcomings aren't going to affect the Switch that much.

[nickmitch]

Yeah, the games on 1-2 Switch don't look all that great for playing more than a few times.

I'm in a situation similar to Clex.  I often want to bring my Wii U with me on travel to catch up on games, but I never want to bring the system and the big ass controller (let alone enough accessories for multiplayer).  The cool thing about the Wii U would've been that, even if I couldn't hook it up to the hotel TV (becoming less of an issue in modern hotel rooms), I could still play in my room, like I would my 3DS.  With the Switch, I could play it just as easily as the 3DS and not have to worry about hooking to any TVs.

But the Switch offers the plus of being able to bring the system around and show it off to people.  Traveling with a Wii was almost always cumbersome, but could usually provide hours of group fun.  The Switch would give me the same social benefit of packing a Wii with me, without the need for a bunch of extra crap (nunchucks, batteries, etc).  Everything you need for multiplayer is right there, and you don't even need a TV.  And it has a kickstand, so I don't have to prop it up or anything.

The problem comes in with the big multiplayer game, 1-2 Switch.  Sure, it'll be fun the first few times I pull it out, but I might get bored with it quickly.  I'm not sold that it'll be fun for me to pull out in a big group.  But I really want to be.

[Stogi]

From what I heard, it makes a great drinking game.

[Justin Nation]

The problem comes in with the big multiplayer game, 1-2 Switch.  Sure, it'll be fun the first few times I pull it out, but I might get bored with it quickly.  I'm not sold that it'll be fun for me to pull out in a big group.  But I really want to be.

In the specific situation you describe, where you want to bring it around for people to have fun, but don't necessarily want to gear up, until Arms hits it is possible 1-2-Switch could be your best bet, sadly. I'd still pick Jackbox Party Pack generally but assuming they don't make a fundamental change to that game if you somehow couldn't guarantee wi-fi access that game would be dead in the water. While I love Bomberman if you didn't have a TV the multi-player for it wouldn't be as viable (or maybe not at all, wouldn't know without trying).

So if you anticipated being somewhere with no TV to hook up to AND no wi-fi BUT you still wanted to do multi-player could 1-2-Switch win? Maybe if you didn't have Snipperclips which I thought I'd heard was going to be a mere $20 and I'd wager could quickly get crowd participation going as long as everyone could see it in that little screen. Just the Big N sort of painted themselves into the corner with this one and that price point is really a crippler, it raises the expectation bar.

[nickmitch]

From what I heard, it makes a great drinking game.

This is what I'm really hoping for.

In the specific situation you describe, where you want to bring it around for people to have fun, but don't necessarily want to gear up, until Arms hits it is possible 1-2-Switch could be your best bet, sadly.

But then Arms might require the second set of Joycon to really get people interested, and I don't know about getting another pair until at least the holiday.

Snipperclipps could work, as it'd be fun to see people struggle to work together.  Unfortunately, games like Bomberman and Puyo Puyo Tetris are much fun to play, much less fun to watch in a group.  Great for small groups though.

[TOPHATANT123]

People are comparing it to Wii Play as a tech demo, even forgetting the free controller I think 1-2 Switch looks worse than Wii Play. It had a good variety of mini games that could be played both in single player and multiplayer as well as medals and scoreboards to encourage replayability. 1-2 Switch's single player looks incredibly weak, most of the multiplayer games look as though they'll get boring fast and I don't see anything that will give you a reason to come back once you've played them all a couple times. There are 28 minigames so there should be a good amount of variety, and the technology behind it is cool I guess?

I was skeptical of ARMS at first but I've warmed up to it. Motion controls are optional and it has depth with different weapons and special moves as well as the the typical fighting game triangle where grab beats block, block beats attack and attack beats grab.

[Justin Nation]

Yeah, compared to the precedents of Wii Sports and even NintendoLand Nintendo went wide this time and not deep. It makes for impressive numbers of the package but once people realize that only a portion of the games are playable beyond the "Hey, this is pretty neat" phase it quickly falls apart. Wii Sports obviously heavily encouraged people to play the games repeatedly and NintendoLand, while hardly perfect, featured games that may have been built in some gimmicks in some cases but also had some genuine depth to them.


As for Arms it looks great and I was surprised how well the punching mechanics worked but the tank-style controls, the buttons for jump and dodge, and even the movement to reliably and quickly block I didn't quickly get the hang of. I didn't get a lot of time so maybe they work out once you get used to them but in some ways I was surprised I found the control mechanic I was most worried about was the easiest and the most fundamental I found the most aggravating. The ability to play without motion control is important and could be helpful but I do wonder how well, lacking the nuance of the motion controls, it will end up standing up.

[Agent-X-]

My biggest gripe with 1-2 Switch is simply that it ate up time during Nintendo's presentation... That they thought to showcase the title rather than concentrate on something actually fun.


Do they honestly think that 1-2 Switch has Wii Sports potential? I don't even mind that they're not packing that game in, as I probably wouldn't be buying a $350 Switch with a game I don't want. So... at least they got that right since there was no way they would eat a small loss on hardware by adding a pack in game.


Strange thing is that I'm still majorly miffed that they used presentation time to showcase 1-2 Switch. I would have rather they showcased actual games with that time.

[Evan_B]

What did 1-2 Switch ever do to you, man?

[Justin Nation]

What did 1-2 Switch ever do to you, man?

In this case it is me stepping out of it as a person and viewing it as a fan who wants them to be successful and do smart things. They've done a lot of things very right, some things that you could argue, but then there's 1-2-Switch sitting there like a turd in the middle of the floor that everyone sees but people are nervous to talk about. I'm helping to break the silence, Nintendo needs to show more wisdom, and there's no progress towards solving a problem when people fail first to acknowledge it.

[Mop it up]

Your name looks familiar, I think I remember you mainly from the PGC days, which was before I posted. Still, welcome back, mate!

I still feel 1 2 Switch (or Twelve Switch as I can't help but call it) is such an obvious pack-in game, to the point where I don't understand why it isn't at least in NA (Wii Sports wasn't a pack-in in Japan). I just don't see it selling well on its own, but I could see it being a hit in the case of "Well, this came with the system, might as well try it out." That's at least the case with me anyway... it's tough to see myself buying it, but I'd probably be satisfied with it as a pack-in. Which probably sounds weird, but yeah, whatever extra profit they get by selling this separately probably isn't worth what it could achieve as a pack-in.

[Justin Nation]

There was an excellent point made by someone, somewhere, that I saw that completely killed the concept of it being a pack-in for me. Their contention was that if they'd made 1-2-Switch their pack-in game Nintendo would have essentially been communicating to everyone that it was their vision for the system. It was what everyone would have, everyone would play, and it would be perceived as a return to the Wii with Wii Sports as a casual/family console first. Well, plus it would send a poor message about the quality of games they're making for the Switch as well. I consider them not packing it in, now, a bullet dodged and a very good move.


As for from the PGC days, yeah, I wrote for the site and wrote the original back-end for it when everything went more "modern". Before that I started The 64 Source and OperatioN2000, and before that I was a staff writer in the twilight year or so of the N64HQ. Just been busy, but Nintendo is back to having something I can't help talking about.

[Mop it up]

I can see where that explanation comes from, and it could be a reason why Nintendo aren't packing in a game. Personally, I think it's insulting to the intelligence of the average consumer and hardcore gamers, though it's likely that I'm once again giving them too much credit...!

They can also get around that by offering more than one bundle, like the other systems do. They have bundles with "casual" games and with "hardcore" games.

[NWR_insanolord]

They can also get around that by offering more than one bundle, like the other systems do. They have bundles with "casual" games and with "hardcore" games.

I think Nintendo made a conscious choice to keep things simple and only offer one SKU at launch.

[Spak-Spang]

Honestly, I don't mind 1,2 Switch.  It seem interesting and Nintendo is still trying to innovate and create fun games.  However, your complaints have merit.

1) The price of the game for the content doesn't feel right.  I am sure there was a lot of testing and perfecting each of the games, and that costs time and money, but the whole package doesn't look like it should have cost that much money.

2) Limited Scope.  Nintendo should have packaged this with a full controller set up and allowed for 4 player games.  This game seems like fun for 2 players, but the whole concept works much better as a 4 player game.  For instance Quick Draw.  If you are watching your opponents and you have to judge which person might shoot at you.  It would make the game more fun.  Maybe that is impossible without a camera to watch all the players.  Then just have a vibration for the 2 players that are going to fight, and then they shoot at each other.  It still works.  But 4 players would totally make the game play better and with a packaged in controller might make the game feel worth even full Zelda Price.

3) vary the kinds of party games more.  You have 20 something party games based on the theme of looking at your opponent and not the TV.  Cool.  But what would have been awesome is putting 4-5 games that are traditional party games that use the TV or screen.  Like the Wii Play Tank Game with 4 players battling would have been nice.  Simple games that are just designed to be quick fun competitive games. 

It sounds like I am complaining a lot, but overall I think the game could be great fun for families, parties, and it could have that Wii Sports/Wii Play feel and popularity to it...I think that is what Nintendo is hoping for, but even they know it needed A LOT of content which is why they have 20+ mini games in it. 

[ThePerm]

Can we all just agree Zelda is a fantastic deal. It is huge. It's probably as big as three zelda games.

[nickmitch]

They can also get around that by offering more than one bundle, like the other systems do. They have bundles with "casual" games and with "hardcore" games.

I think Nintendo made a conscious choice to keep things simple and only offer one SKU at launch.

Aren't there two SKUs? One for Grey and one for Neon?

[NWR_insanolord]

They can also get around that by offering more than one bundle, like the other systems do. They have bundles with "casual" games and with "hardcore" games.

I think Nintendo made a conscious choice to keep things simple and only offer one SKU at launch.

Aren't there two SKUs? One for Grey and one for Neon?

Yeah, I guess that's true. I was thinking in terms of pack-ins or extra storage or whatever, but they did do the different colors.

[Evan_B]

Judging by the topic emoticon and Justin's stance, I think he might be a hater.

[ShyGuy]

Judging by the topic emoticon and Justin's stance, I think he might be a hater.

Didn't he hate something about the Wii or Wii U back during their launch? I may be mixing up esteemed PGC old timers...

[Kairon]

I was actually thinking of making a topic called: "Convince Me To Buy 1-2 Switch"...

I've said it before and I'll say it again. 1-2 Switch makes me think a LOT of Warioware: Smooth Moves, and I've just never understood the appeal of Warioware games in the first place. *shrug*