Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Stogi]

You guys are already bitching about the progression of the game? Something that we know nothing about? Figures....

Can we at least agree that Link's M+ abilities are well done? There hasn't been one complaint by the gaming community about how it controls from those that actually have played it.

[Mop it up]

Link's Awakening doesn't have Zelda or the Triforce.  Majora's Mask doesn't have those either.

And those games weren't as good as other Zelda games. Might there be a connection?

Sorry UncleBob...

[Stogi]

Mop it up...you're opening a can of worms.

Zelda, Ganon, and the Triforce have never been what LOZ was about. That was just the story line. It's like what Bowser and Peach are to Mario. The real meat of the game was always the gameplay, and how you interacted with the world. Having them present doesn't automatically make it better or worse. What I have a problem with is the set design that has you go from dungeon to dungeon, finding an item and then using that to defeat the boss. I wish I had to use a majority of my items to kill the boss. And I also wish that dungeons were more organic in that there really isn't an entrance way.

[ThePerm]

iv always wanted them to experiment with non linearity

i mentioned my idea for a rival in a game, where they are out collecting things just like you, and there may be redundant dungeons, and redundant ways to get into a dungeon so that things can become more about choices.

[Ian Sane]

I find it funny that people would have any particular attachment to characters from the Zelda series when the storylines and character development has been total elementary school level fluff since day one.  If you play any EAD game for the storyline and characters you have LOW standards of storytelling.  I play their games for the enjoyable gameplay and have always viewed the trappings as just a setting to play in.  So the specifics of those trappings can be changed since the gameplay was the draw to begin with.

I don't even need it to star Link or be called "Legend of Zelda".  If Nintendo wanted to make a Zelda-style game in a completely different setting I would have no problem with it and would love it the same as Zelda if the quality was the same.  But I'm smart enough to know that the Zelda name is a strong brand and that not having Link would be too radical of a change for most fans.

[Mop it up]

Zelda games follow a formula because that formula makes it Zelda. If they are going to change things up and have radically different settings and conventions, that game should not be a part of the Zelda series. If that's what you want, you don't want Zelda.

[Stratos]

But is it wrong to want to see a series grow and evolve? We want to see the formula mixed up some. People want to hear new albums from their favorite artists, but does that mean they want a "First Album 2.0"? some bands have been chastised for this. Linkin Park's Meteora was called Hybrid Theory 2.0 by many critics. We constantly want to hear a band evolve it's musical style. To hear something similar but new. Zelda, in many people's minds, has been remastering and remixing their last major hit with a "FEAT. guest artist" attached to the project. Is it wrong for people to want to see the series evolve and grow like a great band does?

[Mop it up]

Zelda's tried to change and all the fans do is complain. Zelda II, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, the two DS games... these games are all harshly criticize by many. It seems pretty clear to me that fans DON'T want change.

And this game is evolving. It looks to have the most expansive and intricate combat system of any Zelda, which can only be a good thing.

[ThePerm]

what he is saying is Zelda gameplay does not need a Hyrule setting. You could set Zelda anywhere and anytime and have the same game mechanics and it would be the same game. If link had black hair instead of blond hair and it still played the same, or if he wore red instead of green(that does happen though). There is a lot you can change about something without changing the core fun game mechanical elements. Like for instance i have been dreaming up this machrider idea

replace link with mach rider
replace epona with a motorcycle
replace his sword with a baseball bat
replace dungenons with warehouses and abandoned facilities
replace his hookshot with a chain
replace his bow with a plasma gun
replace hyrule with a deserted city
replace lizfos and stalfos with cannibals and morlocks
different music
keep tingle the same

Cosmetically the game would looks completely different, but the mechanics would still operate the same way. He'd still push blocks, ride things, attack things with some sort of blugenoning melee weapon, hed still be able to climb up things with some sort of chain device, he'd still be able to shoot things, there would still be racing mini games, shooting mini games, puzzle solving, etc.

[Mop it up]

It doesn't have to be Hyrule, but Zelda wouldn't be Zelda without a medieval setting. And, really, if they're going to make all those changes... why not make it a new series?

[ThePerm]

exactly, the thing is Zelda fans want Zelda gameplay. It doesn't have to be Zelda though.

Still all Nintendo needs to do is work out how people get into dungeons, what dungeons look like. They can't be the same predictable locales..that really is the only complaint most people have. I don't hear much complaint about gameplay. It is mostly Locales and Characterization. Like i was saying before..drop the elemental idea of levels. We have played the fire temple, water temple, and Forrest temples many many times. A change in theme will go a long way. They also might want to adjust how you get items, for the longest time you got an item which allowed you to enter a previously un-accessible dungeon (no doubt you were directed there earlier in the game by it in a teasing), and then while your in that dungeon you earn another item from possibly a miniboss or someone closeby the area of the dungeon and this gets you to the next dungeon. The boss is always defeatable by your new item...its kinda formulaic. There has to be a more complex version of gated access.


good articles and breakdowns
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20061128/lopez_01.shtml
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24488

[Guitar Smasher]

The only components that need to stay, for me, are the triforce and Link - the ultimate power and the hero to save it.  The game shouldn't be tangential like MM.  Give me an evil character out to get the power of the triforce, and a kingdom full enemies trying to kill me.  Throw in dungeons, heart containers, and rupees.  Call it Zelda.

[ThePerm]

iv also wondered what if they switched metroid and zelda's time period

samus in a medieval world
link in a future world

[Luigi Dude]

I'm surprised no ones mentioned this news yet since it's a rather big deal.  In an interview with IGN last week, Aonuma revealed who the director of Skyward Sword is.  It turns out Hidemaro Fujibayashi is the director which is should interest some people since this is the same guy who directed Oracle of Ages and Seasons as well as Minish Cap.

After Capcom closed down Flagship, Nintendo hired him and now he'll be directing his first 3D Zelda.  Some of you might want to take this into account when talking the Zelda formula and what you'd like to see.

[Spinnzilla]

iv also wondered what if they switched metroid and zelda's time period

samus in a medieval world
link in a future world

both would be Final Fantasy.

[Caterkiller]

I'm surprised no ones mentioned this news yet since it's a rather big deal.  In an interview with IGN last week, Aonuma revealed who the director of Skyward Sword is.  It turns out Hidemaro Fujibayashi is the director which is should interest some people since this is the same guy who directed Oracle of Ages and Seasons as well as Minish Cap.

After Capcom closed down Flagship, Nintendo hired him and now he'll be directing his first 3D Zelda.  Some of you might want to take this into account when talking the Zelda formula and what you'd like to see.

The 3 games I never played! So I should be pleasantly surprised right?

[BeautifulShy]

I'm surprised no ones mentioned this news yet since it's a rather big deal.  In an interview with IGN last week, Aonuma revealed who the director of Skyward Sword is.  It turns out Hidemaro Fujibayashi is the director which is should interest some people since this is the same guy who directed Oracle of Ages and Seasons as well as Minish Cap.

After Capcom closed down Flagship, Nintendo hired him and now he'll be directing his first 3D Zelda.  Some of you might want to take this into account when talking the Zelda formula and what you'd like to see.

Hmm played a little of Seasons when my nephew brought it over. Got stuck in an area.Other 2 I haven't played.

[DAaaMan64]

Seasons and Ages are my favorite 2D Zeldas. This makes me happy.

[Stratos]

Link's Awakening doesn't have Zelda or the Triforce.  Majora's Mask doesn't have those either.

And those games weren't as good as other Zelda games. Might there be a connection?

Sorry UncleBob...

More like sorry Stratos! Those are my two favorite Zelda games... 

[ThePerm]

iv also wondered what if they switched metroid and zelda's time period

samus in a medieval world
link in a future world

both would be Final Fantasy.

how would both be final fantasy?....you wouldn't constantly talk to stupid fucking people and then as soon as you walk outside go through annoying ass turn based battles every time you take two steps. The level design would definitely be more then winding corridors that's
only puzzle elements are a few switches. I wouldn't have a party of people casting stupid ass ridiculous cut scene spells.

[Mop it up]

Link's Awakening doesn't have Zelda or the Triforce.  Majora's Mask doesn't have those either.

And those games weren't as good as other Zelda games. Might there be a connection?

Sorry UncleBob...

More like sorry Stratos! Those are my two favorite Zelda games... 

Then I'm sorry but you have bad taste.

[ThePerm]

Majora's Mask was a great game...anyone who says otherwise is wrong IMO

and opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

[Caliban]

Hidemaro Fujibayashi

Ganbatte!

[NWR_insanolord]

Link's Awakening is an amazing game, easily my second-favorite Zelda.

[Ian Sane]

  It doesn't have to be Hyrule, but Zelda wouldn't be Zelda without a medieval setting. And, really, if they're going to make all those changes... why not make it a new series? 

If they're going to go to that level then, yeah, might as well make it a new series.  But even then a medieval fantasy setting is very broad and open to creativity.  You don't have to stick the game in Hyrule, make Ganon the bad guy, have Zelda kidnapped at some point, and have Link visiit Lake Hylia and the Lost Woods and Karkariko Village and Death Mountain, and get a bow and hookshot and boomerang and the Master Sword.  A videogame series is going to have some sort of formula but this is TOO formulaic.  This is like watching a TV show where every episode is the same.
 
Zelda has a large enough fanbase that whether you change things up or do everything the same there is going to be lots of bitching from somebody.  Therefore it's up to Nintendo to make the decision that's better for the series and I think it's better for the series to maintain a level of originality and creativity as becoming stale and formulaic will kill off the sales potential of the series quicker.  Zelda will remain an elite franchise longer if fans still feel that every game is essential.  Otherwise it's like Bomberman.  Do you think anyone but the most hardcore borderline insane fan would have every Bomberman game?  The series is so formulaic that people just get *a* Bomberman game to have one.  But with Zelda, it's normal to have every game.