Topic: Let's Talk Controller

[wandering]

Okay, alot of people have been speculating ways in which the buttons might  dynamically change in order to suit different games (by replacing them with touch-screens and such) I've got a different solution: the end of traditional face buttons altogether. A control method that has no bias for any one particular sort of game.
A controller that is more intuitive and more functional that Gamecube's. A controller that will make your mother want to play revolution just as much as you do.

And here it is. My Revolution controller design.
Left controller. Right controller. ANd, the (unlikely but cool) Revolution immersion helmet
Try to ignore the fact that I can't draw.

HISTORY

This is the third or fourth version of the same basic design. I drew this one after seeing don't hate's design: I liked his so much a stole from it a bit. In particular, I added a d-pad and a c-stick, which weren't in any of my previous designs, and also stopped trying to make both controllers usable for both hands.
Those changes aside, I think I came up with the design more-or-less independently.  Back when I came up with my very first design, people were still theorizing that the controller would just be a gamecube controller with gyration, or a single handle with gyration. This didn't make much sense to me: I thought it would be really awkward to move a controller around and, say, push buttons and move an anolog stick with the same hand. So I split the controller in two: one hand controlling the analog stick and buttons, and the other controlling gyration.
The main problem was figuring out how one hand could have that much control. It hit me: give each finger a button. In my original design, one hand held a stick with four buttons along the back, an anolog stick under the thumb, and a start button centered under that. And the other hand wore a gyration glove. The design slowly got better and more plausible after that.

FEATURES

move your character and perform actions with one hand. Experience finely-tuned motion control with the other: depending on the game, you might be able to swing swords, aim guns, or even tilt the entire playing field

left input:
-one analog stick that doubles as a button
-one d-pad
-start button
- four finger buttons to replace GameCube's 4 face buttons. Finger buttons are better than regular face buttons because: 1)there's no bias for or against any particular kind of game, 2) button combos are much easier. Because of that, the 4 buttons can essentially function as 15.

right input:
-one analog stick that doubles as a button.
-fire button under the thumb; alt fire button under the index finger. These buttons are specifically designed for supporting the gyration control. For example: if you are controlling a sword with your right hand, you might push the fire button to do a jab.
-touch sensitive panel for the rest of the right hand's fingers. This panel senses when your hand is gripping the controller. If you release your grip, most games will stop registering your hand's movements (essentially so you can scratch your nose without swinging your sword).

Revolution immersion helmet: headphones that allow you to hear noise from the tv; 3d-glasses; and microphone.

output (not pictured):
-button-specific rumble. Because each finger has it's own button, each finger can have it's own specific feedback. In-game tutorials could tell you which button to push directly without a beginner having to search the controller for that specific button.
-built in lighting. For the buttons that aren't always under a finger (start button, analog sticks, d-pad) there is a circle around each of them that can pulsate with light. Again, this is so beginners can know instantly where to press without having to search the controller for the right button.
-built-in game-controlled resistance for both analog sticks.
-built in rumble for each hand.
-built-in speakers for each hand.
-built-in hot-cold output for each hand.
-built in air(?) output for each hand. This output allows you to feel, at the very least, something moving forward/backward/up/down across the palm of your hand.

Output from unknown location: (either the left-handed controller or revolution immersion helmet). Blows air directly onto your body.

other features:
-10-15 hours of battery life.
-controllers can be plugged into revolution for easy charging. Can be played while plugged in.
-controllers can be stored in the revolution for maximum portability.

GAMEPLAY

Imagine you're playing metroid. You land on the planet, And the moment you step out of your ship your hands turn cold. You can feel pricks of rain.
You move around with the anolog stick,  jump with the index button, and morph ball with the middle button. You move your right arm to look around. You spot an enemy. You scan it with the d-pad first, then you ready your weapon and aim. You hold down the fire button, and you feel your right hand start to warm up and shake. You release, and you feel and hear a powerful blast move down your hand and out into the planet. Your hand cools down.
YOu move into the next area, and can feel the heat as you approach a pool of lava. Suddenly, a monster bursts from the deep. He roars and you can feel his breath on your face. You steady your aim, and press the alt fire button to launch a missile, and can feel it as the monster explodes in front of you.

FEATURES NOT INCLUDED

secondary screen: Already proven useful for a lot of things but: 1) It would make the controller feel too complex. 2) it would be really annoying to have companies force you to constantly look down at the screen in single player games, just to see your health bar or something. Because, if it's there, it WILL be used in every single game.

touch-sensitve buttons: possible; each finger has it's own button. But, it would be annoying not to be able to rest your fingers on the buttons.

button 'rings' that can be pulled as well as pushed: Kind of cool idea, but it would make games way too complex and unintuitive.

8 buttons, 4 per hand; motion sensing in both hands: Again, useful for some things, but otherwise it would be like a giant house with no walls on the inside. Developers (and players) wouldn't know what to do with all that freedom.

all buttons containing the ability to be pushed up, down, left or right, like a d-pad: again, too much complexity.

Even better feedback for right-hand gyration: Even with rumble and everything, the gyro controller is like the DS's touch screen: no feedback. Ideally, there would be something that could stop the gyration controller in mid-air, but I can't think of a realistic way to do that.

POTENTIAL PROBLEMS
controllers might cause serious hand cramps.
Battery life.
playing cube games might be awkward. Still, backwards compatibility shouldn't be the first priority. You can always (hopefully) plug in a classic cube controller into your revolution.

OKay, yeesh, it's late. This post is too long, and probably unreadable. Sorry.

(edit: spelling and such)  

[slingshot]

I am intrigued.   I wouldn't have guessed on a splitting controller- but I can see how that would be pretty  neat.  With
a gyro controller, though, there is no need for both analog and d pad.  I think one would suffice.

[wandering]

Well, I would've agreed with you a little while ago. But, I've realised.... 1) if players are using gyro to control sword/gun movements, they might like a choice on whether to use an anolog stick or a d-pad for primary movement, depending on the game. 2) analog sticks and d-pads make good selection tools (for the visors and arm cannons in metroid, for example) 3) while the gyro will add functionality, I don't know if it can really replace the d-pad for fighting games or the c-stick for camera operation and 4) the controlly probably needs to be backwards compatable with gamecube.

[wandering]

Sorry to double post. Just finished reading the patent. I think it might invalidate my design, but, that's okay.
Anyway, couple of cool things:

Games can be loaded directly to the controller:

[0106] In addition, in the first embodiment and the second embodiment,      only a case in which the operating apparatus 10 is used by being      connected to the game machine 100 is described. However, if the operating      apparatus 10 is integrally provided with a storage medium (ROM) for      storing a game program and so on, a memory, and a CPU for processing a      program of a game program and so on, it is possible to enjoy playing a      game by directly connecting the operating apparatus 10 to a television      receiver.


The controllers might have a Wireless connection:

[0099] It is noted that although in the second embodiment, the second      housing 16 and the third housing 18 are electrically connected by use of      the cable, there is no need to be restricted thereto. That is, another      method such as connecting via an electromagnetic wave (for example,      electric wave or infrared rays) in a wireless manner may be applied.

Odd that they'd throw that out there when 80% of the patent is spent describing the friggen wired connection between the two controllers, but whatever.
I'm getting really, really excited about this thing.

[Don'tHate742]

Ya I noticed that too....I just assumed all of it was about the cable and how it was like a tape measure. I didn't bother to read the rest.

I am so glad they threw that in there. It could be another ploy to trick those looking at the patent....or not.

However, it gives the possibility for the second part (or right controller) of being wireless. That is the most crucial part if made wireless. It allows for more freedom, especially with a FPS. I wouldn't mind if the other part of the controller is attatched top the console; however, Reggie did state a very interesting qoute about how the tethered to the console days....are over.

Is it possible for a gyration to control something on-screen, while allowing force-feedback? That would make a killer racing game....on par with racing wheels.

Very good time to be an Nintendo fan!

[Spak-Spang]

Wandering:  Your controller idea is interesting, but it has a few flaws.

The biggest problem is with the buttons for each finger.  Realistically it your pinkie and ring fingers are not good fingers to use for buttons.  They aren't very strong, and will be mostly used to keep the controller held and steady.  Also with four finger buttons, it would be very likely to accidentally push another button, specially using fingers you don't normally use.  

One Button on the side should be enough for each controller.  If not, then no more than 2.

The other problem with that design is that it doesn't form into a traditonal controller very easily.  You mentioned the button layout is wierd, and it is...but also the playing a game usually designed for one solid controller split into two would be difficult, and that design isn't  very practical for combining the controller to one unit.

I would predict this.  If this information is being used for the Revolution controller then:

1)The  Controller will have two versions out.  A left handed version and a Right handed version.  The difference will be layouts reversed.

2)The Right controller will have 4 buttons.  One Big Button as a thumb resting place, surrounded (Gamecube Style) by 3 other buttons.  

3)Two Analog triggers on the Side of the controllers with that digital click feature.  

[TheYoungerPlumber]

I felt I should point out that if Sony or MS were to "borrow ideas" from this patent, they could be in serious trouble.  If Sony were to take this design and use it in the design of their next controller without significant alterations to the concept, NINTENDO COULD KNOCK THEM DOWN.   A patent is a monopoly on an idea, and the owner of the patent can choose to license the idea or not.

Maybe Nintendo failed to patent the analog stick for the N64 or it was already in the free domain, I don't know.  Cearly they want to protect themselves this time.  Honestly I don't know if this patent is strong enough to hold in court (the idea needs to be novel enough), but Sony probably doesn't want to gamble with their controller.

[Don'tHate742]

Patents are a wonderful thing.

With your idea wandering: It breaks out of the normal too much. People would have to re-adjust themselves to use it, even those that don't play games often. I like the ideas of putting buttons on the back of the controller; however, you put too many. Personally, I can only see 4 buttons on the back (2 on each part). The two other fingers on our hand (pinky, ring) are used entirely for balance. That's why robots have 2 "fingers" instead of 4 (thumbs not a finger); the other 2 aren't needed.

A trigger/button for the middle finger would have to be easier to push and a little off-center when compared to the pointer-finger's trigger, to accomade for it's length. I tried to show that with my echtings, but failed I geuss. Also, you were correct about needing the joysticks and D-pad. It'll allow for complete backwards compatibility, and also an option for those who don't want to use gyration. Also, it allows for another axis (x/y) that could be used for moving.  More importantly, a few genres can't use gyration for a method of full control, unless a more intuitive way to play those games is creative. The fighting genre comes to mind as well as Sports (Madden, NBA street), and anything 2-D.

As I see it, a GameCube controller, split into two with an second trigger for each part, would be about the best.

[nemo_83]

I don't want more than two functions on the shoulder/underside of the controller.  I have played with a FPS that had two shoulder buttons and one trigger on each side of the controller, and it had no face buttons.  I had trouble concentrating.  It took too long for me to get used to it.  

I could see a trigger combined with a scroll wheel (look at the shape of the Cube trigger) coupled with a regular scroll wheel above it similar to the z button's placement above the Cube's trigger but only featuring a digital click unlike the trigger wheel.  Our brains are wired to use our first two fingers and thumbs best.  Actually the thumb and first finger are the most articulate digits.

[slingshot]

I doubt you would need a scroll wheel if you have gyroscopic censors.    The gyros should do all the work of moving
around the screen- you would only need action buttons of some kind.

PS- make sure you read my post on WHAT ELSE GYROS CAN DO...

[wandering]

Well, as far as getting used to using buttons based on finger rather than position- I thought it would take time to get used to it, but, it also took awhile for everyone to get used used to using analog sticks. I felt like I was re-coordinating my thumb way back then-- and I thought it might be the same sort of experience with this controller.

You guys might be right regarding our ring and pinky not being able to handle it though. (though we can type with them, at least.) And you're definatley right that my controllers couldn't be put together to form one.

--

Don'tHate: regarding the controller being a gamecube controller split in two- all of Nintendo's comments point to the controller being easier/more intuitive to use than a gamecube controller. That, combined with the rumors regarding the end of traditional buttons, lead me to feel like the basic controller button layout would be drastically rethought - taken one step beyond just centering the a-button - while still maintaing the same functionality everybody was worried the revolution would get rid of.
Gyration feels like an added feature that would make certain videogame actions a lot easier, but wouldn't really make a standard controller any more intuitive/less intimidating to the non-gamer.

But- I could be wrong. DS has traditional face buttons, but still has a lot games that use nothing but the more intuitive touch screen. It manages to draw in a lot of casual non-gamers.

Pushing buttons with the gyro hand would still be awkward, though. Imagine you're playing Mario Sunshine and you're using the gyration to control your water pack. Now imagine, as you're squirting and aiming your water pack, you push a button on the gyration controller to jump. It would feel weird.

[edited-in point] Though - on the other other other hand, your 4 triggers (2 buttons for the left hand) help. In your design, I actually thought those were just finger rests - I didn't know you had put triggers in at all, sorry.

--

Regarding the patent: Nintendo might be able to patent a controller that can split in two, but they can't patent gyration or motion-controlled gameplay. Or even a two-handed controller.

It's the N64 all over again: Nintendo made a 3-pronged controller that sony couldn't copy (I don't know if it was actually patented). Nintendo's controller allowed you to switch between traditional digital gameplay and new, analog gameplay. Sony took that, and turned right around and came out with something even better. It still utilized the analog stick that Nintendo themselves didn't come up with and so couldn't patent, and used a new layout that allowed the user to switch between the two control methods in a different way.

--

(edit: readabilty)

edit2:

Sorry, I know this post is too long already. But, I think I've got something here. Throw my design out. Take Don'tHate's design and replace the cube-style 4 face buttons with N64-style 2. Not a huge change - but it shifts the focus, which is important.

In the left hand you've got an analog stick and a d-pad for your thumb. And you've got one button for your index finger and one button for middle finger: the x and y buttons. Now, in the other hand, the gyro controller, you've now got two thumb buttons: the a and b buttons. And a c-stick. And for your left hand's index and middle fingers, you've got L and R. (and for your ring and pinky, you've got a sensor, just to see when your hand is closed around the controller.)

Now, put these two controller halves together and you've got a pretty standard controller. Old school 2 face buttons instead of 4. 4 triggers instead of 2. Split the controller, and you've got 2 primary action buttons for your left hand (x and y), for actions not related to the gyro (jumping in mario, performing context-sensitve actions in Zelda.) And on the other hand you've got 2 primary action buttons (a and b), for actions directly related to the gyro (firing in metroid, squirting a water pack in mario, jabbing your sword or something in zelda).
And, just foir spice, you've got a d-pad, a c-stick, and 2 extra buttons.
You pretty much lose the ability for button-specific rumble, but, that's okay.

(edits 3-4: minor corrections, spelling, clarification)
(edit 5: changed the spelling of 'clarifaction'. Okay, I'm done now.)    

[Don'tHate742]

I like that idea of simplicity; however, it would be awkward to play a fighting game (even Soul Calibur). Also, I think you mis-interpreted my drawing. It uses 2 gyration parts. One for the left hand, one for the right. That way, a FPS would only use 1 joystick (for movement), and the view analog stick can now be split into camera and aiming.

The C-stick was put there for 2 reasons: 1) To allow those who didn't want to use gyration, to be able to switch to dual analog, and to also allow for no excuse for not porting a game ("we don't want to program a new code to make use of gyration" - developer). 2) For quickly switching items. It cannot be used as 4 buttons....or even 2. It's a stick, and pushing a stick to 'jump' or to 'punch' is awkward (look at CAP Vs. SNK:EO, though my friend had a blast). I put 4, because 4 has become the standard. Really I don't think a well thought out game would use all 4 buttons, or even all 6, but still, it must conform to what people are use to and what dev's want.

Let's take your example: Mario. You said it would be awkward to aim and push buttons at the same time. Your right, but why would it be awkward? Why does it feel okay when we squeeze our trigger finger, rather than pushing a button? It's because the thumb bends below your own trigger finger. It's hard to explain, but imagine holding my controller design, and hitting buttons. You should see your thumb bend downwards to the level of your trigger finger and lower. This causes the awkwardness. Now, imagine using my controller but this time with the top of it higher than your trigger, so it kinda sticks out of your hand. Your thumb should be at a 45* angle from your trigger finger. Your thumb would rest gently on the controller face without any bending involved. This would be much more comfortable. Since the controller face is at a 45* angle from the rest of the controller, the face of the buttons would also be facing you, so you could hold it out in front of you and see what buttons your pushing without diverting your attention.

Also, look at any remote control today. People easily aim and push a button; however, holding something bigger needs more thought input to deal with any awkwardness.....it's a good point, and I will re-do my design.

[wandering]

No, no. I don't think you're getting my point.
I wasn't saying it would be awkard in terms of finger positioning (I thought your controller looked very comfortable, with a lot of thought put into  ergonamics. Though what you're saying now is probably true.)... it's, ah,
Okay. Mario example again. You're moving your right hand around to control your water pack. In your brain, your right hand has essentially become your water pack. Pushing a button on your right hand, your water pack, to squirt water would be fine. Pushing a button on your waterpack in order to jump would be very awkward. That's what I'm saying.

I was suggesting to shift the focus by changing the central cluster of 4 buttons under your right thumb to merely 2. And making the 2 trigger buttons on your left hand more...central. So, essentially, on your right hand you would have a primary button and a secondary button, for performing actions related to whatever you're controlling with your right hand (a waterpack, a sword, a gun). On your left hand, you'd have a primary button and a secondary button as well, for performing actions related to whatever you're controlling with your left hand (your character's body, probably). That's still 4 main buttons, just distributed differently.

On another note, why would you need to control camera and aiming seperatley in an FPS?

On another another note, if both hands are gyro-controlled, which I wasn't thinking, and analog sticks aren't as central...I might be able to realize my crazy dream and create a controller with 6 buttons, 3 per hand, one per finger...must draw...

[Don'tHate742]

OH! I get it now....That is a good point...

The brain would essentially have to trick itself or get use to it, for it not to become awkward. Who knows though, it may not be. I think something even trickier would be moving and aiming all with one hand (Metriod). We'd have to see it in practice to make sure, but again, it does sound very awkward.

On another note, why would you need to control camera and aiming seperatley in an FPS?

It would open up the possibilty for FPS's and FPA's tenfold. All shooters have been constricted to the X and Y axisis (sp). For the first time ever, Z could come into play...........How, you ask?

The right hand's gyration could control your gun solely, while the left hand controls the camera (your head). This allows for the "gun" part to shoot anywhere on-screen like a light-gun, but also anywhere off-screen. It's like playing an arcade shooter, with you pointing a gun towards the screen, although this time, the gyration could map your x,y,z coordinates and literally let you shoot anywhere, even behind you. If gyration's as sensitive as I think it is, it could tell which way your holding the gun (i.e. sideways, upside-down, and so forth). So moving tilting the gun down, but not lowering it, shoots towards the "ground." While aiming straight up into the air, with your "gun" parrellel to the ground, will shoot the air.

The possibilities explode. You could shoot around the wall; over a crate; behind you; and even shoot yourself, all with human-like accuracy! Dual-weapons are popular though, and they must be included in any outstanding FPS. A solution: If the second gun is mapped on your left hand, where what you look at is what you shoot (similar to Halo), it could easily be implemented. The aiming circle could be in the middle of your camera, so you would have to aim your camera view then shoot (again, exactly like Halo). The possibilities open up to where you can shoot two people at the same time, even if they are in opposite directions.

All that with the added functionality of Force-Feedback, and you have a very deep experience. Although, I don't think Force-Feedback is possible while using gyration for mapping, nor is it neccesary.

[wandering]

I get it. Very, very cool.

Though now you're controlling 3 things (camera + movement in one hand, gun in the other) with 2 controllers, so, I  that it would be awkward.
Now, if you could control the camera with a VR helmet......

[Don'tHate742]

Ya that's the only problem....

I don't see this game being released for the non-gamers, with it most likely be developed by some other developer besides Nintendo. Us, hardcore gamers, can deal with the ackwardness as we've done in the past. I remember when two analogue sticks were very ackward to play with. Still, the problem holds...

It may sound confusing, but in practice, it could be easy. To straif in a circle rotating to the left, you would move your camera hand left with the joystick pointing towards the right. You wouldn't tilt your hand, which would cause some strain and more awkwardness. It would also cause more strain when strafing right. As far as I see it though, straifing in a circle would be the only problem. I mean anyone would easily be able to run forward at what they want, and when juking back and forth, all you would do is move the joystick side-to-side, with your aiming hand compensating for the movement. Aiming would be easy and precise.

I've seen many players (including my bro) give up on console shooters because it was too hard for them to look and move, not to mention to aim also. They move while there camera is going haywire, with it looking at their feet or up in the sky. Finally, they could jump in and be ok from the start. Running at what they want to kill, shooting at what they want to shoot. However, those that play more often can develope their straifing skills and become pros.

I just thought of a really cool idea for that FPS. Imagine driving and shooting at the same time! No more need for two people in a car, or a car that can shoot. You could drive circles around someone and act out in real life the movement of you shooting out your "window." That be crazy fun!

[Morales]

With all the speculation on the new "input device" for the Revolution, I thought I'd give a stab at a design. First and foremost, I have a pretty bad pic that I drew in paint to elaborate, but I need a space to host it. Can anyone recommend a good and simple free space?

I've heard alot of rumours and honestly I actually like quite a few of them. So I mixed and matched and added a few additions and came up with what I believe to be the ultimate controller.

Picture a normal wavebird. Now take away the d-pad, c stick and face buttons. Scared you yet? Good. haha. This concept is built around gyroscopes of course. Perhaps the most important thing about this controller is that it can be split in half (ala a recent patent filed by Nintendo) for one-handed gaming. I expect many of Nintendo's games would use this setup.

Now, I'd pretty much keep the trigger buttons the way they are. They really need to be utilized better though this generation. Where the z button is currently I'd put a mouse wheel, because mouse wheels rock. For symmetry throw one on the left side as well.

There will be no face buttons as we currently know them. What I envision is a raised circular area about the size of the space that the current face buttons rest on. This area will be able to be depressed as a button. The catch is that this area will be made with the stuff they make laptop touch pads with. This will not only enable rubbing and wacky stuff like that, but it will be able to detect where you are actually pressing the button. I can see this circular area broken into four quadrants and used much like four normal face buttons. You wouldn't even have to take your thumb off the area to press the dif. areas though. For example, in a fighting game, let's say a combo involved hitting a jab and then a fierce punch. Jab could be mapped to the top portion and fierce to the bottom. All you'd have to do is roll your thumb down to pull it off. It should not be a problem feeling where your thumb is hitting because of the raised circular nature of the area.

Finally, I would have the grips of the conroller be pressure sensitive to enable squeezing. This adds essentially two more input methods and could be used for a bunch of cool things. A couple things that come to mind are perhaps if you are hanging from a rope, to cross it hand over hand, maybe you would alternate squeezing the left and right grips. In a sword fight, perhaps if your grip sucks, when a baddie hits your sword, he'll knock it right out of your hand.

This controller is simple, especially if broken into halves. However, count how many inputs it has - two mouse wheels, two triggers, two grips, and a face button that can be one big button, four smaller quadrants, or whatever you want. The gyroscopes will take the place of the c-stick for cube games and whatnot. The analog stick should be depressable as well. Why not?

Ok, I know this is long, but what do you guys think? I know it's more of an evolution of other people's ideas, but I was just frustrated that every design I saw had some glaring flaw.  I really think this would work. In fact, I may just make the damn thing myself.

[Don'tHate742]

TinyPic.com.....pic hosting made easy....

I don't know why you think a touch-pad is so neccessary. A raised circular area seems like it would do more damage than good. Do you really need that wacky, rubbing stuff? Unlike your idea, the point of a touch-SCREEN is for more accurate mouse-like controller, however, a touch-pad isn't a mouse....it's a horrible rendition of a mouse that laptops only use because it's small and flat. Anyways, if you leave the wacky and rubbing stuff to the DS, there is no point in having touch-pad buttons. Regular buttons would do just fine. Furthermore, it would likely raise the price, and be a dumbed down addition of the touch-screen which Iwata stated won't be on the controller.

I'm all for the pressure sensitive grips, and your right, it would add that extra edge if developers actually use it. What I don't get though, is the mouse-scrolling wheels.....what the hell are they? If your talking about a mouse ball, then there is no way in hell that 1 of them would fit where the Z-button is today, and not only would it feel un-natural, but uncomfortable as well.


Sorry to rant off on your idea, but frankly, I just don't get it....Maybe the pic will help?

[Morales]

The point of the touch pad button area is basically just to give developers another choice.  Is it necessary?  No, none of this stuff really is.  We could play next gen games on current controllers and with the other systems we probably will.  However, I think it's a good addition as it makes the controller look alot less intimidating while actually expanding functionality over normal buttons.  It can be one button or 4 or it can be a virtual analog stick, that would actually work better as you can feel the set boundaries of the area.

I'm talking about mouse wheels not balls.  The thing in the middle of the two buttons that you use to scroll.  It can also be depressed as a button.  Basically, it would be good for going through menus, inventory, etc, but the best example I can give for use would be switching weopons in a shooter.

Hope this clears things up.  I'll work on getting the pic up.  

[trip1eX]

The 2 part controller maybe could let you put different controller halves together.  SAy for fps games put in a right half with a touchpad or trackball.  

The gyroscope thing could be sweet.  I wonder tho how well it would work for say aiming in an fps game cause you'd have to keep your controller position fairly neutral when you're not aiming.  

Anyway I think Iwata made it clear Nintendo is making a controller that will look inviting to Moms.  That doesn't speak well for those us of looking for something revolutionary for gamers like a controller that could aim with mouse-like precision and accuracy.

[kirby_killer_dedede]

All right.

A lot of you have the same concern as I; if Nintendo does something too drastically different with the Revolution controller, than traditional games (Zelda, Mario, etc.) just won't play like they used to.  I don't freaking want to swipe my sword by throwing my controller in the air, I want to swipe it by pressing the B button, dammit.  And I'm damn positive that Nintendo realizes this.  They know that playing it safe is the best way to play (interesting article at n-sider.com, check it out).  This is why I don't believe any of this gyro/touch screen bullsh!t.

Gyros...just no, I'm sorry.

As for touch screens...yes, it is an interesting concept for developers to be able to come up with their own control schemes.  But that's just the reason touch screen analog doesn't work for me in Mario 64 DS - not being able to feel it just bugs me.  Especially with face buttons...you don't want to have to look at the controller to find the button, you just want to press it.  That's why camera control in SM64DS didn't work for me either.

I think Donkey Konga/DDR/Duck Hunt/Track and Field/etc. may hint at what the control scheme will be for Revolution...simply, there won't be any standard control scheme, but rather there may be a controller designed specifically for certain games.  Like there may be some 15 Revolution controllers, certain ones compatible with certain games.  Sure, there's cost, but I think developers would be smart enough to...no, scratch that.  Nintendo would be smart enough to either offer the controllers at an affordable price or include all of the controllers with the system for no additional cost.  Yeah, Nintendo'd lose money, but if it plays out like it should, Nintendo'd regain the money from software sales.

idk, just random babbling.

Another theory I like is that Revolution has a double meaning...possibly the turn of something.  lol, the real reason I like that theory is because a double-meaning sounds like something Nintendo would definitely do.

That's all I've got for now.

[wushupants]

Hmm... controller... I think it should be something you can use all your 10 fingers on. For example, a sphere held with hands almost wide open. I know someone probably wrote something similar to what I'm gonna say but, I'm not gonna read 7 pages-plus worth of random ideas. Now, this sphere should have analog "pads" for each finger similar to a normal control pad, but in a more circular fashion (along the lines of the xbox one, but with more comfort for your finger), and with more sensitivity for pushing in any direction, and also with analog sensitivity for how much pressure you apply to the press. And each half of this sphere could be slightly rotated by each hand respectively in opposite diretions to detach completely, and then both halves used individually while placed on any surface. With their own rumble/shock features, adjustable levels of sensitivity, wireless connectivity, and a conveniently placed hand-wrap for and awesome grip. Sounds awesome, innovative, and expensive. The system might as well be integrated in it too. Only kidding. Ok, I'm done.

[nemo_83]

Quote
Originally posted by: wushupants
Hmm... controller... I think it should be something you can use all your 10 fingers on. For example, a sphere held with hands almost wide open. I know someone probably wrote something similar to what I'm gonna say but, I'm not gonna read 7 pages-plus worth of random ideas. Now, this sphere should have analog "pads" for each finger similar to a normal control pad, but in a more circular fashion (along the lines of the xbox one, but with more comfort for your finger), and with more sensitivity for pushing in any direction, and also with analog sensitivity for how much pressure you apply to the press. And each half of this sphere could be slightly rotated by each hand respectively in opposite diretions to detach completely, and then both halves used individually while placed on any surface. With their own rumble/shock features, adjustable levels of sensitivity, wireless connectivity, and a conveniently placed hand-wrap for and awesome grip. Sounds awesome, innovative, and expensive. The system might as well be integrated in it too. Only kidding. Ok, I'm done.

How would you like to get your hands on this sphere?  http://www.forcedimension.com/fd/avs/home/

[Morales]

click here cuz i can't figure out how to show the pic
Finally, here is a basic concept on my controller.  I wasn't going to bother posting it since it didn't get a good reception, but now I'm seeing copycat designs on other forums and it's pissing me off a little. hehe.  Honestly, I'd be happier if Nintendo themselves copied.   Really I don't think that the controller will be the Revolution in and of itself at all.  The Revolution is going to be a campaign by Nintendo towards an incredibly versatile and person-friendly system.  All wireless controllers, wireless AV out using NEC technology, one console sending multiple signals to other tv and computer monitors in the house, free wireless online play, and a system with enough cpu power and RAM to do this while looking comparable to the other systems.

I think that Nintendo will however, tout it's new interface as a Revolution.  If they weren't sure about gyros already, I'm sure they are now that so many rumors are going around and the fact that they're so cheap for Nintendo to get.  They'll probably market a mic and a camera if they aren't included outright.  And they'll most likely continue to push innovative peripherals as they always have from the zapper, to the power glove, to the GBA/GC connector cable to the bongo drums.  

Sorry for that rant.  I just don't want people to think too hard about how to totally reinvent gaming.  The things I've stated would make for a superb gaming system.  Nintendo never stated there was going to be one thing or one technology that would constitute the Revolution.          

[Morales]

Hey, I was thinking.  I really like that floating analog stick, so maybe for my dream controller concept, replace the normal analog stick with that, and besides the controller separating in the middle, you can twist it like the Namco NeGcon controller.  Wouldn't that be sweet?