Itoi: Today marks the third part in our long interview series with Shigeru Miyamoto. I feel that Miyamoto-san's thoughts about “creation” apply not only to games, but everything. But first he speaks about a discussion he had with the maker of Seaman - a game that the actress Yūki Amami has also mentioned interest in - Yutaka (Yoot) Saito.

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Miyamoto: You know, the other day I caught up with Yutaka Saito.

It sounds like Seaman is doing well. I said I was glad to hear it. You know I was the first person in the world that he showed the idea for Seaman to. From the beginning of development for Seaman, I met with Saito-kun several times and offered him advice. It would have been great if Nintendo could have published it, but I think it was the best decision for him to choose the Dreamcast hardware.

We had done an interview with "Famitsu 64+" and they were asking us to just talk however we normally do together. Basically shoot the breeze. So during that discussion, I brought up this book that Saito-kun had introduced me to - saying that I still hadn't returned it to him. It's called, "Are Your Lights On?" And so several of our staff members that had read the article went out, found the book and read it. And many of them came to me and expressed their opinions on it - some said it was interesting, some weren't so sure. Anyhow, for Saito-kun and I, whether we found the book interesting or not was beside the point - what we were trying to say was that we decided to make a certain kind of game after reading a specific book, or in other words that what's most important is that we get the need to make different kinds of games while doing other things. It goes without saying, really. Shows this industry is still in it's infancy, the fact that we have to come out and say that it's so important for us that we're always thinking about making games, even when we're doing completely different things.

What we actually don't usually talk about at all is stuff like, "those variables were really fine tuned,” or, "that super battle system is really spectacular." (Laughs) But, you know, I think that maybe normal game creators these days talk about that kind of stuff on a regular basis. So I bet that kids that want to become game designers discuss those kinds of things.

Behind any new kind of game software, not just for the 64 but games like Seaman as well - I think the base for those concepts started from something unrelated to games, and people in our industry tend to say, "Let's go out and decide what to do once we have a few drinks in us,” but it's not that they just decide on the spot there, but rather that that's where they summarize their thoughts. I don't drink though, so I don't go to the bar. I wonder if a lot of game software with that kind of background will continue to come out. As an industry, you know? Not just the developers, but the sellers as well.

I mean, they say that these days games have fallen into a pattern, you know - ‘cause they're thrown into genres, and that we've probably exhausted all the patterns there are. Like, when you've made a genre like adventure games, and you need to make a game that requires skill - in that case it's best to make an action game. It's these kinds of decisions we've gotten good at - categorizing. We've gotten efficient at that, but because we create just using that efficiency, I wonder if we've hit our limits - that at this point we're just making things less interesting.

What's interesting about Saito-kun is that he has no framework - of course that's also why opinions of his work are all over the board. He might not get a 60 out of 100, but judging purely on “appeal” he can consistently make a product that's an 80 or more. I'm a little envious of that.

Lately I've really been thinking. "What's a producer?" “Producer” isn't a clearly defined role, and depending on the person what they do can vary wildly. There are tons of things and people in the world with power, and whether they reach the masses or not really comes down to luck. And one way to think of producers, is to say that they do the necessary support to help the product reach the masses. That makes sense, right? Easy to visualize. And I think there are people that are doing something close to that now.

And so for me, I think the company was my producer. No one ever puts it like, "The company is the producer,” though, so, although it may seem like I got to where I am all by my own talent and effort, the fact that this media existed is a huge part of it for me.

I think I'm someone with “power.” What kind, I don't know - but some kind of power. But actually I don't think it's such a big deal such that I deserve all the attention I get. I think there are many people around with a kind of power.

I've worked all these years thinking that I want to do extravagant things and stand out in the world, and in the end by making games the real me was drawn out. I tend to say that's because it's all I've ever known, or that I've built up my experience that way, but actually I don't think that's necessarily true. I feel like there's some latent, unseen power that being on the development floor has drawn out of me. So I think that things going well even when not according to plan - I think that's me. It's surprising...Definitely a surprising power. I feel that I'm incredibly lucky that I've been in an environment where that would be drawn out.

There are now all of these people who make games, and when you've come to a point like this where you can make games in all of these different places, back in the day it was a small enough “village” that when someone had enough power they could just come out and show themselves - but now even if they do have that power they could go unnoticed. There's actually a lot of people in the staff here that have incredible power, but the company can't always effectively play its role as “producer” anymore. So in those instances as part of my role I'm starting to think it might make sense to look not on the company level, but at the whole “village” and give a chance to those people.

Up until now it was that I, as having been produced by the company, would go out and express the power I have as a creator, but now my job is to leave that part to other people to an extent, and so I'm having the younger staff members do the creating. And by that way of thinking, what's next is that my role will just be to introduce the younger staff - and take my place one step further removed. Lately I've finally come to see it physically like this, that that's genuinely what a “producer” is. In the past, it was like you'd be the one to go obtain funds from the company, or make some approvals or something. But I've come to think that it's not really that. My place has changed bit by bit within my relationship with the staff that I work with.

Well... more than anything else, I'm kind of the nagging older brother. And so I'll come along to put the finishing touches on something and everyone's like, "Just don't be the one to let the fat lady sing!” (Laughs) I've always done that up until now, so as long as I continue to do that we won't have any huge Miyamoto-like successors coming along. Once we entered into 64 game development, I realized that I'll have to reverse that way of thinking, and that I'll have to make it clearer as I'm working with people that I'm not making the games with them, but that my role is just to introduce people. I mean, for instance when you and I worked together - my role was more of a guardian, to decide what would be technically possible, right? I've come to physically see what the job of a different kind of producer is. But now internally. And ideally, with external partners as well.

It's the kind of job that doesn't take too much work or time. Since I figure it's no good to put a huge amount of time into it. First I want to do things right internally. That might be easier said than done, though.

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Itoi: I hope you enjoyed part three. We got to hear about what kind of job Miyamoto-san is thinking about going forward. Miyamoto-san really is something, continually thinking about new things for the future - not just the present.

In the next part of our interview, we'll finally close in on Dolphin related topics, while continuing with our discussion. Look forward to it!

Friday, October 29, 1999