Author Topic: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music? (Read 18284 times)

Ian Sane · « **Reply #50 on:** June 24, 2004, 09:56:19 AM »

"Most of the reviewers out there probably never even played the originals before to even care."

Not so much not care but just not notice. I'm sure Mega Man 7 as it is on the collection is perfectly playable and is a great game. It's just not 100% accurate and the SNES version is superior. If you're unaware of that you're not going to consider it a flaw.

I think that for any sort of re-release the major review sites should get someone really familiar with the original material to review it. Otherwise they just miss things like this. If you're a fan you care about changes. I for example would NEVER purchase the GBA version of Super Mario World because it has inferior voice samples and was altered to be made much easier. I think I read maybe one review ever that mentioned those things. All the other reviews just stated "this kicks ass" and that was that.

I understand when people get upset when a reviewer lowers a score because of the absence of features that were not promised but the reviewer felt should have been included (IGN's Mario Kart: DD review is a perfect example of this) but in the case of a port there's a frame of reference. Therefore changes and missing features are worth noting. Even without the screwed up controls and the missing music I would dock marks from this just because it includes the PSX version of Mega Man 8 instead of the Saturn version that has more content. Reviewers didn't even mention that and that's not something that only hardcore fans would notice. Do even a little research on the games in this collection and you'll know that.

darknight06 · « **Reply #51 on:** June 24, 2004, 10:25:28 AM »

"I'm sure Mega Man 7 as it is on the collection is perfectly playable and is a great game. It's just not 100% accurate and the SNES version is superior. If you're unaware of that you're not going to consider it a flaw."

That is true. However, I could understand some imperfections in sound, graphics, whatnot if this was emulated. However, this was ported!!! Many more complicated games get ports from one thing to another and they still 85% of the times come out better than what happened here. This is an old game. Capcom had the resources for the original game, since THEY MADE IT!!! There's no reason for any imperfections. Especially for the shot repel one I forgot to mention earlier. When you hit an enemy invincible to your buster shot, the shot bounces off REEEEEAL slow, rendering your gun useless for what sometimes appears to be a whole 4 seconds. Believe me, this was not the way the original was.

I apologize if I appear to be extremely anal with my observations, but you would think that with 2 delays of the product, it'd be nothing less than perfect. Especially given the series they were doing this for. Apparently, even the blue bomber can't get a break these days.

ruby_onix · « **Reply #52 on:** June 24, 2004, 01:34:27 PM »

I just wanted to say something about the control situation, and brought pictures.

This is the standard way that an NES controller was supposed to be held. (Thumb positions roughly drawn in bright green with MSPaint.) You're supposed to rock your thumb left or right to press a button.

But if you held the controller like this, then any light twitch of your thumb-tip would trigger the "B" button, and depressing you thumb would trigger the "A" button. This was extremely useful for lightning-quick fire control in a game like Megaman, and let you easily fire while jumping at the same time (instead of the "one or the other" effect you get by rocking your thumb back and forth). The odd-looking position of your right hand is really not bad, if you let the controller turn slightly clockwise (but you can't look at it while playing, or you'll get distracted).

Since the classic square-brick NES controller, Nintendo has been trying to make it more comfortable to use the "standard" position, by giving the buttons a small turn counter-clockwise, which makes it even harder to use the "twitch" position.

The SNES controller has that slant, but by adding a second row of buttons, Nintendo invented a perfect "twitch gaming" setup, where you could use the "B" and "Y" buttons, like you used to use the "A and "B".

The GameCube controller abandoned the SNES style (well actually, the N64 did it first, but the GameCube did it too), but with some minor old-school effort, you can still play the "twitch gamer" way.

But of course, Capcom messed that up by changing the buttons layout for no good reason. It's still possible of course, but you'd have to play like this, which would probably break your wrists.

Capcom's swap of the "A" and "B" buttons messes with people who played the "standard" way to a lesser degree, by just making things feel backwards.

Since Sony's controller is an evolution of the SNES controller, the PSone (and likely PS2) versions of the games use the "perfect twitch gaming" setup of using the "B" and "Y" buttons that the SNES invented (although Sony invented stupid new button names for them, which will probably overtake the SNES names, in terms of popularity, sometime soon).

Does everyone get that? Was it clear enough?

Ian Sane · « **Reply #53 on:** June 24, 2004, 01:48:14 PM »

You know I've never ever been able to play the NES "twitch gaming" way. I find it too difficult. I really only can use the SNES method. My ideal control setup for this would be Y for shoot and A for jump. Had they just allowed people to customize the controls themselves this wouldn't be a problem at all. We would all start playing, get confused by the default controls, go into the options and voila problem solved.

This situation gives me an idea for the Revolution. In a perfect world all games should have customizable controls. But unfortunately that's not often the case and with most games if you don't like the controls you're screwed. So therefore with their next console Nintendo should add the flexibility right in the system. Just like how that menu the comes up when holding the A button at load up allows you to set the screen size, date, etc. you would be able to customize the controller. By default the A button would be the A button but you could go in and set it so that the B button does whatever the A button does. It's like assigning the controls in an emulator. Naturally each controller port would have it's own settings. Just by adding this Nintendo could automatically ensure that every single Revolution game has some control customization.

ruby_onix · « **Reply #54 on:** June 24, 2004, 02:00:57 PM »

Quote
So therefore with their next console Nintendo should add the flexibility right in the system. Just like how that menu the comes up when holding the A button at load up allows you to set the screen size, date, etc. you would be able to customize the controller.

That's a damn good idea.

By the way, something else I noticed to stir up some extra drama. From that Atomic Planet letter-response posted in the IGN thread:

Quote
Both versions were developed side by side and in fact the GameCube version was the first to be completed.

The game was delayed repeatedly, and the GameCube version was done before the PS2 version.

Methinks that the PS2's problem in that it can't handle a port to/from anything (including the PSX, apparently) has reared it's ugly head again.

The PS2 versions was probably buggy as hell. Did they delay the game compensate for that? Yep.

The GameCube version doesn't have the disk space for 7 CDs worth of MIDI-turned-Redbook audio. Did they delay the game to compensate for that? Hell no. Just slash the audio out of the game.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #55 on:** June 24, 2004, 03:37:17 PM »

Ruby: thanks for illustrating. I've used those classic "twitch gaming" setups on the NES and SNES, and in a sense also on N64 with Mario Tennis 64. As far as twitch gaming on GCN is concerned, it could reasonably be performed by laying your thumb over "Y-A" (GCN) the same way you'd press "Y-B" (SNES). I also think laying your thumb over "B-A-X" (GCN) at a "8:30pm" angle isn't necessary, since holding "B-A" (GCN) at a "10:00pm" angle works just fine -- I play Mega Man Network Transmission (which incidentally came out exactly a year ago) this way and it works beatifully (B:megabuster, A:jump, Y:weapon).

WesDawg: If you're playing these games as if they were new to you and you're learning the controls from a fresh start, then I can understand the controls shouldn't be too much of a problem. But, quite a few of us expect a high degree of precision and responsiveness that Mega Man gameplay is traditionally known for, and we've managed to verify that these "backwards" controls do not yield the effectiveness of the tried-and-true "twitch gaming" control scheme, which Ruby detailed.

For reference, I own and played Mega Man X, X2, and X3 (all SNES) to death. They're most effectively played with the "Y-B-A" (SNES) setup where (Y:xbuster, B:jump, A: Dash). Thanks to the "diamond" configuration of the SNES face buttons, I can cover Y, B, and A with my thumb so I can manage to 1) Charge the X-Buster/weapon 2) Dash and 3) Jump all in the same motion without lifting your thumb. Alternatively, I could charge a weapon while simultaneously Dash-Jumping off a while Mega Man X was sliding down it). If the Mega Man Ann. Col. (GCN)'s backwards controls were forced upon the Mega Man X games, they'd be practically unplayable, in other words you wouldn't be able to realize Mega Man's gameplay potential and you'll see him perform miserably. There isn't an intuitive way for your thumb to reach the buttons in a meaningful order to execute the variety of actions. If there's any chance i'd play those games well, I'd have to use a "3-finger arcade setup".

If there's any chance of me playing the games in MM Ann Col ever again, it'll be using a "3-finger arcade setup".

joshnickerson · « **Reply #56 on:** June 24, 2004, 05:17:37 PM »

I've calmed down a bit and started playing a couple Mega games, namely Megaman 1 and 2. I've gotten somewhat used to the controls, but they are still VERY counter-intuitive and I often slip up over which button does what. I've found that if I set the game in Easy mode, I'm able to take my time more and remember which button does what.

Djunknown · « **Reply #57 on:** June 24, 2004, 06:03:18 PM »

Their press release says at the very bottom that the re-mixed music w/navi mode is PS2 exclusive. So much for that lawsuit...

I've been trudging through MegaMan I, and got Wily's stage one. I would ask for some tips against Yellow Devil, but that's another thread...

Control wise, I'm fine with it. I just use autofire all the time, it gives me that extra edge.

A simple suggestion: For those demanding twitch prescision, why not use your fingers? two fingers are faster than one thumb...

Urkel · « **Reply #58 on:** June 24, 2004, 06:31:46 PM »

Ridiculous. I was looking forward to this, since I missed out on the classic Mega Man games. Now I'll probably just wait until it makes it to the bargain bins. Which might not be long.

Even though I may not be used to playing Mega Man games, I'm sure this whole A button, B button garbage would throw me off, too. Virtually every NES game I ever played had you jump with the A button, and shoot/attack with the B button. Surely, it must've crossed the minds of the people making this game at least once that this control scheme might be... awkward for some people, so why they didn't add a customizable control scheme is beyond me.

Not including the remixed tracks is just more ammo for Nintendo haters.

NES games taking up hundreds of Megabytes is beyond absurdity. Why? Why not just use an NES emulator?

Let's all hope that if this game doesn't sell well on the Cube, that Capcom doesn't draw the conclusion that Mega Man games don't sell on the Cube, but rather that flawed ports don't sell.

Please, Capcom. Don't go Konami on us.

darknight06 · « **Reply #59 on:** June 24, 2004, 07:41:40 PM »

Anyone see the interview yet? I thought it was right interesting, though the G4 ad could go to hell.

Anyhow, I guess you can say I've calmed down a little bit too. The controls don't really bother me all that much anymore, though I still have to stop myself every once in a while from hitting B when i want to hit A.. If you do get the collection, my opinion still stands, get it for 1-6. Right now those 6 alone are saving this collection from being traded in for something else

FOR THE PURISTS...

On Shade Man stage when you get to Bass, the dialogue been "cleaned up" so to speak. Funny thing was, after all the crap I witnessed beforehand, this came as no surprise.

P.S. I guess I can't really be all that mad about this though, especially considering that because of a screwup on preorders I ended up getting Four Swords for FREE!!!!!!!

mjbd · « **Reply #60 on:** June 24, 2004, 09:21:51 PM »

I bought this game today, and I am really enjoying it. I was a big MegaMan fan back when I had my NES. I just played through MegaMan 2, my favorite. Although I have never played MegaMan 7 or 8. I noticed some complaints about the ports, from what I have played, they are very faithful to the originals, except for the constant freezing I used to experience on the NES. I was 6 and didnt know that blowing on the cartridges was a very bad thing. I think this game is worth the $30 even if it only had the NES games. If you are a big fan of the series, do not hesitate to buy. Its funny, but I own MegaMan Network Transmission and the Collection, and think the old MegaMan games put the network series to shame.

joshnickerson · « **Reply #61 on:** June 25, 2004, 04:25:36 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: darknight06

FOR THE PURISTS...
On Shade Man stage when you get to Bass, the dialogue been "cleaned up" so to speak. Funny thing was, after all the crap I witnessed beforehand, this came as no surprise.

Oh, I've got a friend who is such a huge Megaman freak, he's bought the PS2 version and actually told me every single thing that was different between the original games and these "ports" so far... it's eerie...

Chode2234 · « **Reply #62 on:** June 25, 2004, 06:56:02 AM »

I've never really played any of the mega man games, ever, never was that interested but due to the high opinions so many have about him I am now curious.

What is so great about them and do you reccomend I go out and get this disc and why?

Chode2234 · « **Reply #63 on:** June 25, 2004, 06:57:10 AM »

I've never really played any of the mega man games, ever, never was that interested but due to the high opinions so many have about him I am now curious.

What is so great about them and do you reccomend I go out and get this disc and why?

Ian Sane · « **Reply #64 on:** June 25, 2004, 07:17:28 AM »

"On Shade Man stage when you get to Bass, the dialogue been 'cleaned up' so to speak."

What does "cleaned up" mean? Did he used to swear or something? "Step off Shade b!tch or I'll beat your @ss mutha f*cka!"

darknight06 · « **Reply #65 on:** June 25, 2004, 08:48:33 AM »

It's really nothing all that big, but Bass's line went from...
"Damn, I was careless" to
"DARN, i was careless."

Thought I'd point it out for the purists.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #66 on:** June 25, 2004, 11:00:56 AM »

"It's really nothing all that big, but Bass's line went from...
'Damn, I was careless' to
'DARN, i was careless.'"

Lame. Remember when Mega Man was a mainstream franchise aimed at general gaming audiences instead of niche franchise aimed at children? Those were the days.

mjbd · « **Reply #67 on:** June 25, 2004, 12:52:16 PM »

If you arent a MegaMan fan from way back, you may not get into this title as much. Obviously everything about it is dated, but if your a fan, its great to be able to play these games again.

Djunknown · « **Reply #68 on:** June 25, 2004, 06:24:38 PM »

Just (barely) beat Mega Man 1, and well...those who made that title either are A)not Human or B) Certified Masochists.
On a side note, The intials H.M.D are in the credits. Remember the shirt regular Joe wears in Viewtiful Joe? Talk about an obscure reference.

It can only get easier from here. I never got the chance to play 2, but 3 and 4 are old hat to me. Can't imagine the rest get more masochistic than 1....

Anyone try that finger setup? I used it in a couple instances (Beggining of Wily's Stage one and against that bubbly thing with the bricks in the middle.), and I found helpful when I needed that prescion.

darknight06 · « **Reply #69 on:** June 25, 2004, 07:24:24 PM »

2 has one boss that comes real close to MM1 standards, but otherwise it's about moderate in difficulty. Same with 1 really, at least once the Yellow Devil is defeated.

About the remixes. I decided to do a little bit of a play with my speakers, have one set for just the game's sound effects and the other for the music. So far I've only played MM6 like this since that's the only one I have the tracks for at this moment.
The first part of the game, the remixes don't help it too much. Honorable mention goes to Knightman and PlantMan's remixes, but that's as far as I'll take it. It's not until part 2 where it gets extremely good. Wily boss battle remix makes for a remarkable final showdown.
I hear 4 and 5's music were much better remixes overall, but I've yet to hear those so I can't make a real judgement on those particular ones yet.

I will say one thing, this has gotta be some of the best gaming I've done this gen, bar none.

darknight06 · « **Reply #70 on:** June 26, 2004, 12:11:47 AM »

Professional 666:
I don't know if you've beaten Megaman 7 yet, but if you haven't I hope you didn't like the watching the credits in the original too much. Why? Because, for whatever reason, it's completely BLANK now. No Megaman walking away from a mode 7 explosion, no Robot listing as the credits go by, NOTHING.

To all else:
Now I know somebody at Atomic Planet didn't know what they were doing. Notice that in Megaman 7 and 8, any effect that was hardware specific was eradicated. 7's mode 7 fire effect, and ALL of 8's polygonal transition effects on speech boxes and the openings of stages and the weapon menu are gone.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm still enjoying the heck out of this for 1-6.

Syl · « **Reply #71 on:** June 26, 2004, 07:27:43 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"It's really nothing all that big, but Bass's line went from...
'Damn, I was careless' to
'DARN, i was careless.'"

Lame. Remember when Mega Man was a mainstream franchise aimed at general gaming audiences instead of niche franchise aimed at children? Those were the days.

Do you really think a line like that is such a big deal? Thats taking the "blood and guts" sell games approach, So what if they censor cussing, it doesn't affect the DARN gameplay at all.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #72 on:** June 26, 2004, 08:19:11 AM »

"Do you really think a line like that is such a big deal? Thats taking the 'blood and guts' sell games approach, So what if they censor cussing, it doesn't affect the DARN gameplay at all."

Had it always been "darn" I wouldn't care and wouldn't push for "damn". I just don't like censorship or any sort of change in a port that isn't the result of hardware limitations. These ports should be absolutely perfect.

darknight06 · « **Reply #73 on:** June 26, 2004, 09:55:34 AM »

"Do you really think a line like that is such a big deal? Thats taking the 'blood and guts' sell games approach, So what if they censor cussing, it doesn't affect the DARN gameplay at all."

Here's the thing. On the back of the original box, not one of the features were "CURSING IN DIALOGUE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE MEGAMAN SERIES!" However, what surprises me is that the original game was rated KA and the word wasn't edited it out then. I only really want to know, why now?
Thing is, if 7 weren't so screwed up I probably wouldn't have even mentioned it. This isn't like MK1 SNES/Genesis where the SNES ver. was dogged for having no blood despite being the overall better version.

Quick edit: Some of these people on a few of the other message boards are insane. This one guy claims the wording was changed because they wanted to cater to Nintendo's kiddy image... *shakes head*

foolish03 · « **Reply #74 on:** June 26, 2004, 07:51:37 PM »

its common place for nintendo to get f!@$ed over. Ive given up being angry about it. No since in me complaining when they dont listen to us anyway. Most of those idiot developers put nintendo second to microsoft and playstation. Nintendo gets the leftover scraps.

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Author Topic: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music? (Read 18284 times)