Author Topic: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?  (Read 18253 times)

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Offline Syl

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2004, 08:37:38 AM »
After hearing some of the remix's, i can do without.  They somehow butchered the megaman 2 soundtrack, that was enough for me to no longer care.

I have around 80 megaman remix's on my computer, i can deal without the <expletive deleted>y ones being played in navi mode (which i doubt i'll play anyway, because of everything else it does)
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE:GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2004, 09:41:13 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Syl
After hearing some of the remix's, i can do without.  They somehow butchered the megaman 2 soundtrack, that was enough for me to no longer care.

I have around 80 megaman remix's on my computer, i can deal without the <expletive deleted>y ones being played in navi mode (which i doubt i'll play anyway, because of everything else it does)


If they butchered MM2's, then good riddance.

However, I'm still glad the GCN version gets the interview footage -- good for the fans who really do appreciate the franchise and its roots (the craptastic PSX selections of the franchise doesn't count).
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2004, 12:54:26 PM »
I just got my copy today, yay.  I'll play it later.

I got another free t-shirt from Capcom again, yay.  It's black and all it says is Capcom, yay.  It's almost as good as my P.N.03 t-shirt.

Geek.lifemeter++;

I also got another cool Capcom brochure and a useless miniposter that supposed to remind me of Mega Dude's PSX outings.  *barf*
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2004, 01:22:39 PM »
OK CAPCOM, MAKING "B-BUTTON" THE JUMP BUTTON WAS ONE OF THE DUMBEST THINGS YOU'VE DONE, ESPECIALLY AFTER 16 YEARS OF MEGA MAN UP TO mEGA mAN nETWORK tRANSMISSION THAT STILL MAINTAINED THE INTUITIVE AND ERGONOMIC B-BUTTON-SHOOT TRADITION. "A-BUTTON" SHOULD BE JUMP.  ASK VIEWTIFUL JOE, HE KNOWS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

MORONS.

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AH I UNDERSTAND NOW, WHOEVER DID THESE PORTS SIMPLY *DON'T KNOW* HOW TO PLAY MEGA MAN GAMES, OR THEY SIMPLY SUCK AT THEM.  I'M SURPRISED THEY DIDN'T MAKE Z-BUTTON JUMP, AND THE C-STICK SHOOT.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2004, 01:52:07 PM »
"OK CAPCOM, MAKING "B-BUTTON" THE JUMP BUTTON WAS ONE OF THE DUMBEST THINGS YOU'VE DONE, ESPECIALLY AFTER 16 YEARS OF MEGA MAN UP TO mEGA mAN nETWORK tRANSMISSION THAT STILL MAINTAINED THE INTUITIVE AND ERGONOMIC B-BUTTON-SHOOT TRADITION. "A-BUTTON" SHOULD BE JUMP."

They probably thought the a button was a good choice for shoot because it's bigger than the other buttons.  It's still a moronic decision though.

Let's see:
1. The game is missing remixed music because of the lower Cube disc space.
2. The controls suck because Capcom got confused by the Cube controller button layout.
All that's left is for the game to take up a whole memory card and Capcom has the "ruined-Cube-game-because-of-seemingly-insignificant-differences-from-the-PS2" hat trick.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2004, 02:16:27 PM »
Seriously, Mega Man games are skillfully played when it's easy to have your thumb hover over both the shoot and jump buttons -- while your thumbs is mashing away on the shoot button it's necessary to be able to press jump without taking your thumb *away* from the shoot button.  The B-A (shoot-jump) setup on the NES and the Y-B setup on the SNES satisfy these effortlessly.  This same philosophy also applies to the Mario series, with regards to running-jumps and holding items.

Unbelievably, Ann. Col.'s auto-fire button was mapped to GCN's Y-button -- with B for jumping (so so far away it is...).  This is MIND-FORKING-STUPID.  If Mega Man X was part of this collection, it would miserably be UNPLAYABLE.

Dammit, I hope Mega Man 7's button config is still intact.
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Offline joshnickerson

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RE:GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2004, 03:46:09 PM »
As soon as I started playing it, and finding out that the A button was forever assigned as "Shoot" I got pissed off. It took me forever to beat the first boss in Megaman 8, since you have to jump and shoot at the same time. This angers me far more than any remix issues. I'm actually stunned IGN didn't gripe about the control scheme, as it's the most important issue of the game... well, then again, it is IGN we're talkin' about...
Oh, Capcom... you were actually doing so well in my eyes... then you do this. Un-freakin-believeable... I actually have other issues with this game, but that can wait.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2004, 03:57:52 PM »
Have you tried to *ahem* EFFECTIVELY use Y(auto-fire) in conjunction with B(jump) yet, without using more than your thumb?

OH SUCH SIN THIS DISC HAS!

WHAT WENT WRONG?!~!~
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Offline Djunknown

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RE:GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2004, 04:35:36 PM »
Hmmm... Since Capcom didn't specifically say that the re-mixed tracks were PS2 exclusive; hmmm.... is that fradulent advertising? And you what happens after fraudelent advertising?

Big Fat Class-Action Lawsuit! Then again, a bunch of gaming geeks like ourselvers seeking punitive damages...well... ahh screw it, but it was a good idea at the time!

I was wondering what happend after I put Navi-Mode on just to hear the tracks....Then I checked the sound options menu and just saw volume bars. I'm with the I-don't-really-care-but-its-the-principle-that-counts group here.

Hate to sound campy, but looks like Nintendo is the Rodney Dangerfield of gaming: It gets no respect at all.
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Offline Infernal Monkey

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2004, 04:54:09 PM »
This news of terrible angry controls makes me sad in the groin.
Then again, so does the fact that this game won't go on sale here till like, October and it's going to cost $110 AUD ($76-ish US or something)

Tee hee, I have more to angst about! :linkinpark:

Offline joshnickerson

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RE:GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2004, 05:07:08 PM »
More ranting, and further proof that Capcom programmed this collection mainly for the PS2, is that Megaman 8 is the PS1 version, not the superior Saturn version. The Saturn version (which I just matched up with the one on the cube) has better music in some stages, more extra material, and sprites that are a bit bigger than the PS1 game.

I was stoked about this collection, even with the shortcomings, but this whole controller mishap has ruined the whole experience.

Offline darknight06

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2004, 05:53:30 PM »
My synopsis of the whole ordeal so far.  *spoilers concerning unlocked material*

This is going to be a fairly large post, and I'm going to be quite anal about some things in it so as it stands, you were warned.

I've finally gotten a hold of the game and to say that I'm less than impressed isn't even touching on the surface.  Where to start...

The good: IT'S MEGAMAN 1-8 Contrary to a previous rumor, every game has it's own save meaning you don't have to overwrite one save for another game save.
The bad: read on, cuz some of it gets ugly...

Controls: A=B  B=A
Won't even get into them.  You'll either like it or not.

Music and sound.
NES games sound OK. Only issue I have is some off sounds here and there. 6 has the Japanese intro music which strangely cuts off about halfway through the damn intro.  7 and 8 are another story.  Parts of 7 and 8's music has been CUT!!!  Just the beginnings so far, but still.  7's lacking an instrument.  They had to be using a custom emulator for 7's music cuz it sucks.  The tone is off on a lot of the tracks.  7 and 8 both skip like crazy at times. NO REMIXES SO FAR ON CUBE. Some of 8's sound effects are ear blowingly louder than they're supposed to be.  Some voice samples were cut back on too, Search Man seems to be the huge offender here.  Horrid editing job on both 7 and 8's music overall.  Lot of the sound in all games sound muffled. None of the music infinte loops either, which now explains their file size.  Stupid atomic planet didn't reconfigure the music files so that they could infinite loop seamlessly like you'd hear in JUST ABOUT EVERY GAME THIS GEN.

Graphics
1-6 OK.  Navi mode kills all slowdown and flicker.  New health/weapon bars.  
7 almost OK. Transparency fade ins and outs on dialogues look horrible now.  Cloud man's stage when it gets dark now just changes dark, there's no transistion like in the SNES. Slowdown during fade ins and outs WEREN'T IN THE ORIGINAL.  
8 loses it's transistions with one exception between menu screen and the period before Megaman teleports into the stage. Once again, slowdown on fade effects.  SLOWDOWN ON BOSS FIGHTS!!! WTF.  NEXT GEN SYSTEM PEOPLE, INEXCUSABLE.  

Extras So far
Homage to Megaman (the theme that they used for the trailer.)
Megaman's Drum and Bass (A remix of Megaman 3's intro music)
Picture Set 1
Atomic Planet Entertainment Credits

Glitches:
ALL GONE.  

Overall Viewpoint thus far:
Megaman 1-6 are the most enjoyable games on this collection so far, given that they were ports of a port made by COJ, so they couldn't go too wrong.  7 and 8 feel like they were almost just slapped on at the last minute.  Especially 7 where I just realized it had SLOWDOWN too.  Yes, you heard me, an SNES port with SLOWDOWN.  If you do buy this still, just get it for 1-6.  Only play 7 and 8 for the unlockable content.  I was only ticked off by the lack of remixes earlier because I assumed the games would be perfect or near perfect.  As it stands, the remixes wouldn't save 7 for anything, though it would've been nice for 4-6 since they actually came out like they should.
Despite 1-6 being good, this is still a dissapointment, you would thnk that games from the NES and SNES would've been ported perfectly to a recent console these days given their specs.  I might be able to understand 7 and 8 if they were emulated, but as ports they're lowsy.  And as good as 1-6 was, their sound should've been on the spot perfect.  I'm almost afraid to unlock the arcade games as bad as 7 and 8 were.  I'm not the biggest advocate for emulation, but my suggestion maybe to hold on to those roms, isos, whatever you have of the games.  A true testament to lazines, if I do say so myself.


Offline Bartman3010

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2004, 07:55:28 PM »
Only remixes they could fit on the disc are there. They wont play during Navi mode because its missing some of the songs.

There, all isnt lost.

Oh, and Mega Man games pretty much needed 4 buttons, yes it sucks you cant change the A and B config. Go blame Atomic Planet.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2004, 08:28:36 PM »
Going up the chain of command....

We still gotta blame Capcom for letting this tragedy 'go gold'.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2004, 08:55:03 PM »
"This angers me far more than any remix issues. I'm actually stunned IGN didn't gripe about the control scheme, as it's the most important issue of the game... well, then again, it is IGN we're talkin' about..."

Considering they didn't mention either issue I'm pretty sure they only played the PS2 version.  A lot of the major sites do that.  In fact I'm surprised it was Gamespot that brought these issues forward in the first place since they're notorious for cut-and-paste reviews.

"Yes, you heard me, an SNES port with SLOWDOWN."

Considering how notorious the SNES was for slowdown you might say this is fact a really accurate port.

I haven't found a store that has it yet but just looking at all the issues darknight06 brings forward I'm giving this purchase a second thought.  Since it's clear that this was nothing but a cheap cash-in port I'm thinking I may just buy it used sometime down the road or buy it after a price drop.

Offline darknight06

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2004, 09:05:05 PM »
One problem though, it was never during the scrolling between sections though.  That crap looked like bad coding to me.
Update:
Stereo effects in Megaman 7 and 8 are gone.
Mega Man the Power Fighters is for the most part somewhat OK. However, the arcade's stereo sound is gone, and there's quite a bit of slowdown in the games when a lot of stuff gets on screen.  This didn't happen in the arcade btw.  Otherwise, one of the better ports. It at least sounds accurate and wasn't subjected to horrible sound editing.  

Just unlocked Power Battles.  This is probably the best port alongside Megaman 1-6.  Very faithful, no slowdown.  Sound editing is near perfect aside from a couple screwy sounds.

Offline ruby_onix

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2004, 01:11:49 AM »
Okay, I just dug back up the PSX versions I had played. I was wrong about a few things, so I'll just start over.

The first thing to know is that Capcom remixed a bunch of classic Megaman tunes for the two arcade games (which were only a few megabytes, but sounded much better than 8-bit NES).

When Capcom decided to port the NES games into single overpriced PSX games, they included the remixed tunes. If you hold in "select" when selecting the Navi Mode, the game will use any available remake instead of the classic tunes. However, there weren't enough remakes to cover the entire games. Like, for example, Bombman's stage doesn't have any remixed music.

The remixes sound better than I remember, but they still feel out of place among all the 8-bit graphics. And it's only made worse by the constant swapping back to the original tunes when there isn't a replacement available for something.

The PSX games all seem to weigh in at about 300-400 megabytes each. When looking at the contents of the disk in my PC, about 90% of that is taken up by the remixed musics, 10% is taken up by the unlockable image galleries, with less than 1% making up the actual game. That is clearly a blatant abuse of space. But, I guess Capcom didn't care, because they were already wasting the entire CDs on several-kilobyte games.

Considering that Megaman 8 is reportedly the Sony-censored PSX version, instead of the superior Sega Saturn version, I would say that the first six games, and Megaman 8, are all being run off a PSX emulator (or they just used some cut-rate "PSX to PS2/GCN" port generating system).

Considering that the PSX games were all around 350 megabytes, you can multiply that by seven. I'm guessing the PSX games in this collection took up a little over two gigabytes. Add a few megabytes for the SNES game and two arcade games, and you've got the reason why the GameCube version was boned by Capcom. The GameCube disks are 1.5 gigs. The PS2 DVDs are 4.5 gigs. This collection they slapped together is maybe 2.5 gigs.

Instead of fixing the horribly-bloated audio (or making it a two-disk game), they just chopped the remixed audio from the GameCube version. Suddenly the game is less than half a gigabyte.

By the way, the PSX versions let you fully customize the button layout in the options menu. I had planned to get the GameCube version, and play it with a Nyko Playcube, which should have resulted in a control setup exactly equal to the default PSX version (which is as good as the NES originals, but with a more comfy ergonomic style), even without customizable buttons, but Capcom completely ruined that by forking with the "A & B" position.

Congrats Capcom! You just lost a sale! If anything, I might get the PS2 version. But really, why bother?

Oh yeah and, I had planned to get the GameCube version over the PS2 version in part because the "exclusive interview" sounded better than the "episode of the lame 80's cartoon series", but from what I've heard, the interview was produced for Capcom by "G4". I haven't seen any G4 myself (not available in Canada), but I've heard nothing but bad things about them. I'm not basing my version decision on that (my decision has already been made, by the cut audio, and forked-up controls), but I just thought I'd toss that out, for anyone who hasn't heard.

By the way, the PSX games had bonus PocketStation content (as if anyone has one of those things). How much does anyone want to bet that it has not been converted into GBA-connectivity content?      
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2004, 03:00:29 AM »
Here's my quick input after a 5-min run thru of my favorite game of the bunch: Mega Man 7.  A bit of it may be reiterations of previous observations.

Intro loads up.  Music is pretty close to that of the original, though something seems missing.  Some sounds effects are slightly different or lack the same effect of the original.  Overall, THE INTRO'S TIMING WAS OFF AND ENDED AHEAD OF THE SOUNDTRACK.  Some sprite layer inconsistencies are present.  Some sprites are scaled improperly.

Title screen.  The Stereo Sound option is gone. WTF.  At the time, I did not pay enough attention to my surround setup to discern any stereo effects from the game.

Demo screen.  Weather fades are non-existent.  One moment it's clear, a split second later it's raining with no visual transition.

Intro stage.  Character and object sprites are "blurrier" or simply just not as sharp as the backgrounds/platforms.  More "strange" sound effects are heard.  There's SLOWDOWN at quite a few places that traditionally NEVER HAD SLOWDOWN, and it's not even time to play the damn game yet!

Control Issues: Burst Man stage.  B and A buttons don't do what my '15 years of Mega Man experience and instincts' want them to do.  I work my way to the underwater portions of the stage in less than a minute.  Controls are funky, but I'm surviving.  I reach areas that have deadly spikes lying along the ceilings.  I engage in heated battles with aquatic Hard Hat Mac's.  My initial response to their offensive:
I JUMP STRAIGHT UP INTO THE FORKING SPIKES AND DIE.

WTF

END OF TONIGHT'S GAME.  I turned off my GameCube.


My early conclusions:  Capcom has managed to sell me a collection of ports of some of their classic, cornerstone games.  Remarkably, Capcom managed to deliver (hey, they're the ones ultimately responsible for quality checking) a product, Mega Man 7, THAT LOOKS, SOUNDS, AND PLAYS WORSE THAN THE ORIGINAL INCARNATION DESPITE THE GIGANTIC LEAP IN CONSOLE TECHNOLOGY.  All these game seem unplayable to me.

Mega Man 7 plays like ass.
Why not just rename it to ASS MAN 7 ??

Has anyone figured out how to unlock the interview yet?  My reasons for keeping this game are disappearing fast.
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Offline CHEN

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RE:GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2004, 03:29:11 AM »
Wow, I reeeaaally want to play Mega Man, but after reading these comments I don't know anymore. This is just plain awful. It's like Capcom hired amateurs to do a simple job, but horribly/intentionally screwed it.

Offline joshnickerson

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RE:GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2004, 03:46:41 AM »
So far I've only managed to survive Flash Man's stage in MM2 with this blasted control scheme, but only because I had to think each time before I pressed a button. You can image that the boss battle was a bit frantic, as I kept pressing B to shoot and ended up jumping around like a prissy school-Megaman.
For some strange reason, I think Megaman 8 may be the most playable, because for some reason Jump is assigned to the X button as well, but only for this game.
I've calmed down a bit since last night, but I'm still steamed that Capcom pretty much cheated me out of thirty bucks. I looked forward to this game for MONTHS and they ruined it over one dumb control decision. Not to mention the tons of other little things wrong with this game. You'd think they'd have a bit more respect for their most beloved mascot.

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2004, 05:44:12 AM »
I wonder how long it'll take until we see a controller with switchable A and B buttons...

Offline Syl

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2004, 06:50:20 AM »
heh, wait till you hear this, i'm still confused on how its possible.

http://boards.ign.com/Mega_Man/b6002/61079163/?6

I hate linking to an IGN board, but just read the post, the guy emailed the people who made the game.  HOW THE HELL CAN YOU MAKE NES GAMES TAKE UP 618 MEGS OF SPACE?
...

Offline darknight06

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2004, 09:09:53 AM »
 hate linking to an IGN board, but just read the post, the guy emailed the people who made the game. HOW THE HELL CAN YOU MAKE NES GAMES TAKE UP 618 MEGS OF SPACE?"

Simple, you port the games instead of emulate them.

To professional666:
Yeah, I'm still reeling from what they did with 7.  Another thing I'm noticing is that the same engine used on 7's port seems to have been used for 8 and the arcade games and it shows whenever they go to do a similar effect.  Despite what I said about the 2 arcade games being OK, they're still worse than they were on their original hardware.  Remixes?  Bah, remixes wouldn't have saved this crap.  

Offline WesDawg

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RE:GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2004, 09:26:24 AM »
That's a strange reply from Atomic Planet. Sorta scooting around the issues. I mean, I can understand that the PSX versions of the games were large, but its really no reason not to even look for a way to compress them down later. He sorta makes himself look like an idiot when he says "Please bear in mind that the machines that originally ran these games had very different architecture to the PS2 and GCN and so when image and sound data is converted it invariably has to increase in size." Surely things have progressed enough that the actual music, art, and game data could take up less room now than previously. I guess they decided that it was easier to just try and emulate the PSX version of the games than to emulate the NES ones which just seems crazy in my mind. Weird.

Anyways, I ain't played a MegaMan game since MegaManX came out, so I'm doubting the control issue will bother me, and I think I'd rather play the old school games than the remixed sound anyways. This slowdown kinda shocks me though. How come I haven't seen it mentioned in any reviews at all? Have none of them even bothered to boot up MM8 or is it just some crazed MegaMan fan being a bit anal?

Offline darknight06

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RE: GC version of Mega Man: AC has no in-game remixed music?
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2004, 09:45:41 AM »
Most of the reviewers out there probably never even played the originals before to even care.  That and with the way reviews are today, it wouldn't surprise me if they were slipped a little money to keep them quiet about anything potentially wrong with the title.