Topic: Silicon Knights and Nintendo break up

[the_zombie_luke]

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Originally posted by: Professional 666

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Originally posted by: the_zombie_luke
that the B-button simply wore out.

There's a very easy way to fix that *_*

Are you talking about twisting the handles or taking the controller apart? No such thing happened on the NES line. It's something that you should not have to deal with.  

[Ian Sane]

"Now, this doesn't mean no more exclusives or at least GC/N5 versions. Factor 5 is third-party as well."

No it doesn't but it does mean there will be Silicon Knights games made that are not available on Nintendo consoles.  That is worth being upset about.  Plus if they were going to remain loyal to the Cube why would the two companies part ways?  Odds are SK has something cooking for the PS2 or Xbox.  I expect an announcement soon that another company has bought them out be it MS, Sony, or a third party like Konami (which really wouldn't suprise me at all).

Edit:  IGN's quote from Dyack says "It's possible that we may do another game with Nintendo".  They MAY do another game?  I interpret that to mean that they currently have no plans for any other Nintendo games.  However they might just mean they currently aren't collaborating with Nintendo and that technically doesn't mean no Cube games period.  But it still doesn't fill me with any confidence.  I'm hoping PGC is looking into this and can clear some stuff up.

[Bill Aurion]

It's kind of sad that I don't really care...Sure it's nice to have the nice little title that says "2nd party," but the fact that Dyack likes Nintendo so much says something about where he is going to put his resources towards in the future(money hats aside)

[Rich]

Wow its official Iwata, or whoever approved this decision is a retard. What publisher gets rid of one of their top developers, a stupid one. This is pissing me off, Nintendo wants to emphasize gameplay over technology then why in the world do they get rid of SK. Despite poor sales both of their games were critically successful, yes I know that critical success doesn't matter but, give them some time and they will start to be financially successful. Nintendo is just stupid.

I've been looking around and I've noticed that only IGN is reporting this, Nintendojo reported ignCube as the only source and PGC or GameSpot haven't written anything so I'm hoping that this could be some kinda fluke by IGN especially since I would expect to hear this right before E3 or somewhere around there and there is currently a Silicon Knights game in the Big E3 List over at IGN. Heres to hoping that this is false.  

[the_zombie_luke]

It's not going to be false. IGN wouldn't report it unless they were sure.  

[Perfect Cell]

Wow... Im disgusted. I simply am disgusted with Nintendo. Ive been forever the biggest Nintendo fan. Ive bought all of their consoles including the Virtual boy. Today i finally am disgusted with Nintendo.  It seems like Iwata and Nintendo have lost all grasp on reality and have no idea what they are doing. This wasnt a Rare. The money saved by cutting the contract wont be reinvested. This was simply a dispicable move. Nintendo should simply give up. Yes i said it. Words that as a Nintendo fan id never think possible to come out from me, but if Nintendo is going to make these assinine decisions then maybe they should let Bill Gates buy them out, and let real buisnessmen handle the company. How disgusting. Yes, not only with "Gamecube Next" Have much less Third Party Support, but our strongest excuslive parties, will no longer be exclusive! Factor 5? Gone! Silicon Knights? Gone, good riddance we didnt need their junk! We never even got to play Too Human on the console!


How simply dispicable. Today is a sad day for Nintendo fans. If you cant realize this, then i feel sorry for you. Your blind worrshipping of the Sacred Gold Mario Cow is preventing you from seing Nintendo throw itselff off the presipice.  

[evilnate]

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Originally posted by: the_zombie_luke
I guess that is true about N-Space, Retro, and Kuju, Ian. But anyway, this might just be the final nail in the coffin. I was upset that Aonouma directed Wind Waker, that Sunshine wasn't nearly as good as Mario 64, that the B-button simply wore out, that Nintendo abandoned 2D for GameCube, that the director of Kirby departed, but I got over those. This is the most upsetting news in a while.

I feel your pain.  While I haven't played Twin Snakes yet, Eternal Darkness had one of the most engrossing stories that I've experienced in a video game.  It brought back memories of the best of the Sierra point and click games.

You know, it's almost like Nintendo doesn't trust itself, or it's capabilities.  The Cube could be the swiss army knife of game consoles.  It's powerful, almost on par with the X-box.  It's got (or had) the ability to take partial advantage of HDTVs.  It's got a good controller, that works great for most games.  It's got online capability, both through broadband and dial-up.  It's got the only first-party wireless controller solution.  Through the GBP, it's backwards compatable with nearly all of the handheld games, back through to the original Game Boy.  Plus, because so many classic games have been ported to the GBA, it has them too.

Yet they can't seem to make the moves that would put them out there and better their image to mainstream gamers.  They can't come up with an online plan.  They can't hold exclusive games.  They can't hold onto developers.  They repeatedly make statements that make people think that they have no interest in advancing graphics or sound capabilities, or that they're only interested in making "simple" games.

Honestly, I think that Nintendo is a confused company.  They create, what is in my opinion, the best and most versitile console of this (or any) generation, yet expose a philosophy that suggests that they don't know how to take advantage of it.

This news isn't going to lessen my enjoyment of my cube or it's games right now, but I am going to have to take a good hard look at the next generation, because the way things are going, many of the games that I enjoy just aren't going to be around on Nintendo's next console.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

This reminds of StarFox Adventures...

Developer:  "OK, we're done, here's the game."
Nintendo:  "Thanks."
[both parties wave bye-bye to each other]

[the_zombie_luke]

I couldn't agree more, Perfect. This was the boiling point for me, too.  If Nintendo goes third party, too bad. Why do they think that they are still the top dog in the industry? I didn't think they would do something like this to their fans.  

[Jonnyboy117]

Hey everyone,

I can confirm that this report is accurate.  I spoke with Denis on the phone a few minutes ago.  He said similar things to what is in IGNcube's story; the reason for the breakup is still a tightly guarded secret, and I don't know when we will know the truth, but it may be at E3.  I am waiting to get some quotes verified, and then PGC will have our own story on this matter.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Thanks, Mr. Director.

[Jonnyboy117]

Two more things:

Denis said that he thinks Twin Snakes has been well received and is selling well, although he has not seen sales data (and neither have we).

He also said that he would try to hop into the forums today, although I don't know if he will be answering questions or posting at all.  But he is very interested in what you all have to say about this news.  I told him that I thought most of our hardcore readers would have a negative reaction.

[the_zombie_luke]

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Originally posted by: evilnate

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Originally posted by: the_zombie_luke
I guess that is true about N-Space, Retro, and Kuju, Ian. But anyway, this might just be the final nail in the coffin. I was upset that Aonouma directed Wind Waker, that Sunshine wasn't nearly as good as Mario 64, that the B-button simply wore out, that Nintendo abandoned 2D for GameCube, that the director of Kirby departed, but I got over those. This is the most upsetting news in a while.

You know, it's almost like Nintendo doesn't trust itself, or it's capabilities.  The Cube could be the swiss army knife of game consoles.  It's powerful, almost on par with the X-box.  It's got (or had) the ability to take partial advantage of HDTVs.  It's got a good controller, that works great for most games.  It's got online capability, both through broadband and dial-up.  It's got the only first-party wireless controller solution.  Through the GBP, it's backwards compatable with nearly all of the handheld games, back through to the original Game Boy.  Plus, because so many classic games have been ported to the GBA, it has them too.

Yet they can't seem to make the moves that would put them out there and better their image to mainstream gamers.  They can't come up with an online plan.  They can't hold exclusive games.  They can't hold onto developers.  They repeatedly make statements that make people think that they have no interest in advancing graphics or sound capabilities, or that they're only interested in making "simple" games.

Honestly, I think that Nintendo is a confused company.  They create, what is in my opinion, the best and most versitile console of this (or any) generation, yet expose a philosophy that suggests that they don't know how to take advantage of it.

I agree. It also seems like they don't trust themselves to make new franchises like they had to do with the NES and SNES. They have everything they need to be the best, but they have not used it.

[the_zombie_luke]

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Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
Two more things:

Denis said that he thinks Twin Snakes has been well received and is selling well, although he has not seen sales data (and neither have we).

He also said that he would try to hop into the forums today, although I don't know if he will be answering questions or posting at all.  But he is very interested in what you all have to say about this news.  I told him that I thought most of our hardcore readers would have a negative reaction.

I think a lot of us are angry with Nintendo. I think SK has made some of the most fun games, and I don't care which system they choose. I know I like the first Blood Omen, and I'm hoping Eidos will let them take back the series they created.  

[Ian Sane]

"the reason for the breakup is still a tightly guarded secret, and I don't know when we will know the truth, but it may be at E3."

Hopefully this sentence won't be completed with "... when they announce Too Human for the PS2."  No matter what though I'm not expecting good news.  If it was something that benefited the Cube I wouldn't see any need to be secretive when the whole fanbase is freaking out and damage control is needed.

"I told him that I thought most of our hardcore readers would have a negative reaction."

Heh heh.  That sounds pretty funny.  It just seems so unnecessary to say.  

[Jonnyboy117]

To all those who assume this situation is Nintendo's decision, you may be wrong.  Nintendo's investment in Silicon Knights was never fully disclosed; they may have had a 10% stake or it could have been 90%.  But SK did remain an independent company, unlike Retro Studios, which is 100% owned by Nintendo and could never leave unless Nintendo sold them off.  It is very possible that SK made this decision against Nintendo's wishes, if Nintendo held a minority stake in the company and could not carry enough influence to stop the break.  In that case, if Nintendo chooses to keep its stake, they could continue to make money from SK even if the developer begins to release games on other platforms.  This would be similar to the situation with Sony and SquareEnix.  Then again, Nintendo may have decided to sell off their stake in SK to someone else, either another company or another shareholder (like Denis himself).  Right now, the details of what is going on are completely in the dark, so we can't know.

[bubba23]

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Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
Two more things:

Denis said that he thinks Twin Snakes has been well received and is selling well, although he has not seen sales data (and neither have we).

He also said that he would try to hop into the forums today, although I don't know if he will be answering questions or posting at all.  But he is very interested in what you all have to say about this news.  I told him that I thought most of our hardcore readers would have a negative reaction.

Well I can say to Denis is good luck on your future endeavours, because I think you run a great development company and I think they can be a success with or without Nintendo. I take great pride that it's right where I live, and I hope they continue to make high quality games.

[mouse_clicker]

Does this sound fishy to anyone else? Maybe I just don't want to accept it, since I've loved every SK game I've ever played, but isn't this major news? Why does some screenshots of a wrestling title get precedence over Nintendo dropping one of their biggest 2nd parties? The comments from Dyack seemed completely contrary to what he's said before (philosophies didn't mesh? Dyack has said innumerable times that their philosophies were nearly identical). In any case, I'll wait for Nintendo to say something, because right now, IGN's not going to plant a tree in my head only to have it chopped down in a week.

Bah, just read Johnny's response- this really sucks. I'm still wondering how this came completely out of the blue, though- with Rare there was an indication they would be dropped for a long time. Rumors were running almost a year before it happened. Hell, even when Left Field was dropped there was some rumor mongering among the internet community before anyone said anything.

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I know I like the first Blood Omen, and I'm hoping Eidos will let them take back the series they created.

It was Crystal Dynamics, and they took the series away from Silicon Knights illegally- SK had them in court and was about to win when Nintendo offered to make them a 2nd party, at which point they decided the case wasn't worth it and dropped it. I really doubt SK will be making any new LoK games.  

[Ian Sane]

Well MC the reason that the wrestling title is getting precedence is because that was the main story on IGN last night and this big of news has just been added during the day.  IGN rarely changes their banner graphic before their standard daily update.  Plus PGC has confirmed it.  I can understand not trusting IGN but surely you trust PGC.

Edit: MC read Jonny's post while I was typing this so I guess you can ignore this post.  Zeppelin rules!

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I am pretty upset by this.  Eternal Darkness is my favorite GCN game, afterall.  It's a title I've waited through and past the N64 years, was happy to hear about its next-gen upgrade, bought it on release day, and was happy see SK really deliver on this product.  Naturally, I've been waiting for another original, intelligent SK title like this (on a Nintendo platform, of course), being something with water-tight story/gameplay/logic unification.  The breakup news disturbs me, since future developments seem uncertain now, considering how well-suited I thought SK was to Nintendo.

In any case, I hope SK remains close to Nintendo, and excuse me while I explode.  

[Perfect Cell]

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Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
To all those who assume this situation is Nintendo's decision, you may be wrong.  .

We assume its Nintendos decision because of Dennis himself. Ive never met the guy, but ive got tremendous respect for him. His comments made me think that he trully respected Nintendo and enjoyed working with them. He seemd to trully enjoy their cooperation and have similar ideals.  Someone who respected Nintendo so much would not leave them this rapidly.  I had such high hopes for them too, i was hoping to see them make a Kid Icarus or a Zelda title. Instead ill be forced to buy an X-box to play their games. Nintendo is shooting themselves in the foot in the console race. They are forcing a Nintendo fanboy to buy another console because of their mistakes. They are loosing their small hardcore fanbase. When they sold Rare, i felt secure because Nintendo still had Retro and Silicon Knights. Well Silicon Knights are gone, a tremendously underapreceated development group by nintendo. The way Eternal Darkness was treated by Nintendo, was like you treat a red headed step child. I knew Twin Snakes was going to have a similar situation when i saw no advertisement for it whatsoever.

How is Nintendo supposed to attract adult gamers? The biggest slice of the gaming pie these days? Their Third Parties are jumping ship, their seccond parties are getting dumped (factor 5 and Silicon Knights in less than a year how dispicable) ? With the countless Mario Party Rehashes? the GCNext becomes less and less atractive for prospective buyers every day. Why would they want to buy a GCNext since Nintendos best exclusives are no longer exclusive.

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Right now, the details of what is going on are completely in the dark, so we can't know

Your right, but we can know that it really really sucks.  

[the_zombie_luke]

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It was Crystal Dynamics, and they took the series away from Silicon Knights illegally- SK had them in court and was about to win when Nintendo offered to make them a 2nd party, at which point they decided the case wasn't worth it and dropped it. I really doubt SK will be making any new LoK games.

The first Blood Omen was so fun, and SK has improved so much. They could so much in that universe. That doesn't surprise me about Crystal Dynamics. That's similar to what happened to Core. Crystal Dynamics didn't take the Tomb Raider franchise from them , but Eidos took it from its creators and now Crystal Dynamics is developing the game.  

[mouse_clicker]

Soul Reaver was supposed to be an original game made by Silicon Knights- Crystal Dynamics didn't think it would sell on its own, took the game away, gave Raziel the Soul Reaver, slapped the Legacy of Kain title on it, and released it. I played soul Reaver long before I had even heard of Silicon Knights, and I have to say it's one of the worst games I've ever played in my life. People have told me the story was great, and I'm sure it was (I'm willing to bet SK came up with the story before CD yoinked the game away), but the gameplay was so boring, monotonous, and annoying that I couldn't sit through anything else. Now Crystal Dynamics has released 3 more games in the series, none of them I want to sully my hands even touching. The original Blood Omen is, in essence, the only Legacy of Kain game to me.

[Rhoq]

I hope Dennis gets the time to check-in with PGC and read this thread.

I have been a loyal Nintendo fan since the NES days. While I might not have owned every Nintendo console, I have never owned a non-Nintendo console (excluding the Atari 2600, ColecoVision and Atari Lynx). This generation, I own the most games I have ever owned for a system. I love my GameCube and up until recently, I have adored Nintendo.

I would say for the better part of the last year, I have grown increasingly dissatisfied with Nintendo’s philosophy and business decisions. Don’t get me wrong, I am in no way dissatisfied with my GameCube, but I do feel that my game library is missing certain titles because Nintendo has dropped the ball several times causing several 3rd party developers to take their business elsewhere. Since I like to be a one console person, I know that I am missing out on some great gaming experiences by not owning a PS2 or an X-Box. The bottom line is, I know that the Cube offers the most variety in terms of gaming – which is really what is the most important “option” to me in a console system.

In my opinion, Silicon Knights was the best thing Nintendo had going for them. Eternal Darkenss and Metal Gear Solid are excellent games that no GameCube owner should be without. I hate to say it, but without Silicon Knights – Nintendo’s future doesn’t seem as bright and promising. I was looking forward to the N5/GCNext and Silicon Knights’ Too Human was one of the reasons behind my interest in Nintendo’s future console. While, the game might still see the light of day on a Nintendo machine, today’s news makes it seem quite unlikely.

So if Dennis, or anyone else from Silicon Knights reads this thread, I just want to say “Thank You”. Thank you for Eternal Darkness and MGS:TTS. Wherever you end-up, I will be there to buy your future games.

This does not mean that I will not buy the next Nintendo console, what it does mean is that today’s news has made it quite clear…In this day and age, owning only one console system leaves you in the dark. When the next consoles are released, I think I might end-up with a N5/GCNext and an X-Box 2.

[the_zombie_luke]

 Blood Omen reminded me of Zelda, and had awesome gameplay. I was hoping that someday SK would make a 3D one, with all of Kain's powers. Turning into the werewolf, and using Kain's powers was a lot of fun. Not only that, the voice acting was awesome, and the game was huge, and the story was great.