Topic: Nintendo Reveals "Third Pillar"!

[Ian Sane]

"Does Nintendo have to do this EVERY YEAR? Last year they announced the SP right after Christmas, this year the DS."

Come to think of it they have been doing this "new hardware" thing a lot.  Aside from the GBA SP there's also the e-Reader.  This glut of hardware reminds me of the practices of a certain other console powerhouse that was a little too creative for it's own good and is now a third party.

[jasonditz]

The key here is price point. If they can bring this to market sub $150 I'll buy one. I just hope they don't get delusions of grandeur like Sony with the PSP and start charging the price of a used car for the damned thing.

I'm not worried about what happened to the VB here, because this one presumably won't have to carry a surgeon general's warning that it will permanantly damage your eyes if you play too long.

[Mario]

Dont forget the Gameboy Player. Nintendo are almost oversaturing the hardware market, can they be stopped? No.

[Edisim]

Powers, that is some unbelievable hubris there.. one hell of a stretch.. having an lcd integrated onto an at-home console as a second screen is hardly the same as having two screens on one portable system.. now, if you want to see some REAL hubris, watch as I continue to ridicule your co-workers... and get myself banned! Hey, remember when I said Daniel Bloodworth was uptight/anal? HAHAHA. That was in regards to over-moderation on the boards.. Course, the message got deleted before long... as will this one probably.. no offense, though.. you all still rock!

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Apparently the system is not intended to be played by two people on a single unit; rather, a single player will be using both screens simultaneously.

Actually, the article doesn't specifically state that it can't be used by two players on a single unit. It's just seems to imply that it's mainly intended for use by one person. Of course, I'm not really up to date with all the news regarding this. But I believe that it's possible, even likely, that two players CAN play together using one Nintendo DS. Just look at Wario Ware... or whatever that gba wario game is called, where two players can play cooperatively, with one controlling the d-pad, and the other controlling the a and b buttons. (Was that even Wario?) Anyway, there's not much better use/excuse for two screens and two processors on a system than something like this. Except of course, Virtual Boy advance... and since nintendo basically considers the VB as never having existed, they can get away with saying the NDS isn't a successor to any existing hardware.

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Today's announcement is but a glimpse of the additional features and benefits that will be shown in full at the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) in Los Angeles in May. Once fully revealed, players will see innovative advances in game interaction.

Let's not forget the other claims:
unique [we can check that off the list],
will enable "fun and movement" not seen before,
is expected to become a third pillar next to GBA and GCN
(and will not be a full blown successor to any existing hardware),
and will be launched simultaneously worldwide if possible,
will/can communicate data wirelessly via radio,
and will indeed play back existing game titles...
Plus the recent announcement of dual screens, and dual processors..

What would impress me is if the orientation/position of the screens (and controls) could be rearranged to suit different games... remember battleship? and electronic battle ship? well, here comes NDS battleship!

What's the BS-X?

[babaloulou]

 ------

[Edisim]

Warning to everyone: Do NOT run Ian Sane's tag line (Je dois aller pipi) through a French-English translator!
(A rude Frenchman? C'mon.)

I wonder if they are releasing this thing 2004 to give it a chance to sell some units before n5 comes out.. the idea being that the NDS is really meant to be a companion piece to the n5 rather than gcn and/or gba.. and claims of 'it's a third pillar alongside gcn and gba' are really just an excuse to have this thing come out early..
hmm.. plays exiting games? layout similar to game and watch? game and watch and nes games on e-reader? ... GOD, Nintendo, take a step FORWARD.

Btw, Bloodworth, I just read your favorite quote (in your profile) and I sincerely apologize if I have ever offended you or your friends or your co-workers in anyway.
(That's a joke. It's all in good fun..) Hey, here's another joke.. Uptight/anal? Blood? ... I'm afraid to put 2 and 2 together... Now, let's see if I get banned.. or if the jokes get deleted. or both.


Hey, here's a dumb idea: how bout using the 'top' screen to show stuff in the air/space above you, and the lower screen to show the battlefield/ground below you as you battle through whatever?  

[PaLaDiN]

I already know what it means because I know French.

I am now and forever emotionally scarred.

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Speaking of the G&W, I used to have one. It was the Mario Bros game, and you controlled Mario and Luigi as they moved stuff along conveyor belts. Crazy stuff, I'd play it for hours on end. But now I can't find it. It was kewl...

Haha... I had that game. Loved it... Used to get crazy high scores back in the day. If your high score got high enough bonus time started, where the packages counted double...

Come to think of it, this announcement immediately made me visualise that G&W. If they did it that way, it could be playable by one or two players.

[Nosferatu]

Nobody has any screens of this thing or anything so we have NO idea how these screens are positioned. I've seen some interesting ideas that this may be a new Virtual Boy type thing which would explain why each screen needs its own processor. Now, here's my extension to that idea. First of all, 2 little GBA screens in front of your eyes (sizewise here) would allow each eye to individually assess its own high res, quality image right? Well, this is much like how a 3D movie works. The screen presents two images, and you wear the glasses which allows each eye to filter out one of the images. Giving each eye a separate screen would essentially have the same effect, but give a much higher quality image than otherwise possible. In addition, it could be attached to a video device and used as a big screen (DVD, GC, etc) which would give it an "additional" function that people seem to look for these days in their consoles....does that make a little more sense to you guys than a 2 screened GBA?

[Mario]

I just had a thought, Pikmin would work really great with this. You send a bunch of Pikmin off to do something, and you can watch what they are doing on the other screen. Mario & Luigi also, you could do tasks with both Mario and Luigi at the same time, but in different places, insane! And you could have a 3D/first person Mario/Zelda/Metroid and a 2D one at the same time, on different screens, but its the same game.. somehow.

But what im confused about is how you can control both screens at once without getting really confused, it would have to have two d-pads or analogue sticks.. or maybe there's a whole new way of controlling the game? There are certainly a lot of possibilities, im excited!  

[Larrs528]

Perhaps they could do something like have two completely different modes of control inherent in the system.  Like, an analog or touch pad type thing to control one screen while a tilt sensor registered movement to control the other.  

Something like this could expalin the comment about movement.

-larrs

[pook]

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Originally posted by: Mario
Okay, can someone tell me this. What can you do with two separate screens that you cant do with one really long screen?

well, that's why THEY are game designers and WE (especially YOU) are not.

[N5Creator]

First post. wehaay!!
Anywayz

I was just thinking that didnt somebody just guess that ds stood for dual screen or was it made official. That would be a hard spec to carry off especially with virtual boy doing so badly when it had the same ideas. If nintendo did make it dual screens wouldnt that mean that this has all been seen b4 therefore it wouldnt new and inovative? I cant remember who it was but spotting that ds was sp upside down was kool

[Mario]

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Originally posted by: pook

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Originally posted by: Mario
Okay, can someone tell me this. What can you do with two separate screens that you cant do with one really long screen?

well, that's why THEY are game designers and WE (especially YOU) are not.

Yes i know that, i was just wondering what people were thinking, it doesn't hurt to discuss things does it (especially in a FORUM).  

[DrZoidberg]

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Originally posted by: pook

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Originally posted by: Mario
Okay, can someone tell me this. What can you do with two separate screens that you cant do with one really long screen?

well, that's why THEY are game designers and WE (especially YOU) are not.

i know every detail of your life from what you post here, and thus i can determin you definatly lack the skills and mental fortitude required to even consider designing games.

pook has gained: +23 arrogance point(s), ++1 post count point(s)

personally i'll be down if they include some form of mp3 playback, even if it's minor, and if this features GBA support (hopefully) the second screen could be used to have funky ID3 tag scrolling or some such, as for games, Metroid screen one Map screen two, DS Wars screen one, Statistics and Data Screen two. oh hay, i guess i'm a games designer now rhhrhr  

[Procession]

How did this make it out of R&D? I will hold my judgement until I have seen and played it but here is my major thought...

As humans we cannot control two different elements at one time. It is beyond our evolutionary capabilities. Maybe a couple of billion generations down the track but certainly not now. Therefore, the 2 screen idea has seriously limited potential. I hear "oh, for maps, inventory" etc. So? How hard is it to press a button to bring that up then resume to your game. Exactly the same as having two screens. Both methods involve a change of focus. Even driving a car, looking in the rear view mirror changes where your attention is directed and seriously limits your ability to look at the road ahead.

That is why this "idea" is stupid. It isn't innovative, it isn't incredibly clever, just incredibly flawed. "Hey, here's an idea, why don't we stick two screens on it!". Doh.

Nintendo, drop this one, lick your wounds before they incur and do something neat with Sharp's new 3D displays.

[Mario]

Uh, you don't know how it's going to turn out, and what we know right now is apparently only a glimpse of what the actual product entails. Maybe Nintendo found a way to make duel concentration from humans possible? I don't think anyone should dismiss this as a stupid idea when we don't know all the facts about the product, it's like saying "omg psp sucks coz it dun have gud game", when we dont even know what games it will have. I have faith Nintendo will deliver one awesome system, just wait for E3.

[bubicus]

Procession: sure, as humans we cannot control two different elements at one time. However, we can order something to do multiple things at one time. The gaming world has had several instances where this has been implemented. The most recent game I can think of is X2: The Threat, where I can set up 5 independent monitors to show real-time video of any of my dozens of fleets or turrets that are following my orders with a AI/scripting system. An older game from the '90s called Hired Guns is another game I remember, where four independent monitors displayed the view from the four squad members, and you could give them orders and watch what happens. I remember being at E3 1999 and watching a similar system implemented for the now-cancelled X-Com: Genesis FPS/squad-tactics game.

One of the first ideas that popped into my head was something like Mario and Luigi in 3D. You could, as Luigi, order Mario to do something and watch him start performing it on one screen. You could then do something independently, and time your actions together with the AI.

Or how about a game like Diablo, where you have your view and a view from a teammate, so you can see when your teammate needs assistance? Or there could be puzzles like in the old '80s Magic Candle RPG series, where you would split up your party and try to perform tasks in small groups all over the continent at the same time, and you could toggle between the parties whenever needed.

Or how about a game like Unreal Tournament CTF, where your view would be on one screen, and like X2: The Threat, your teammates' views are in the other. You could play wirelessly and coordinate your actions with your teammates, not unlike real-time chat combined with live video feeds from helmetcams.

Anyway, I can think of many more ideas for a dual-screen system, so I'm sure Nintendo already has, too.

[ruby_onix]

IGN stole Louie's bit!!!

[Rize]

I'm going to try and answer some of those questions...

How are the screens arranged?    According to an email sent out to certain people on some American Nintendo list... they will be arranged "vertically".  Does this mean that the screens will be vertical, or horiztonal and stacked one on top of the other.  It sounds like the latter... I think no other set up woudl make sense.  I imagine a traditional GBA setup with a GBA SP like flop top for the second screen (which would certainly have the weaker of the two processors, the ARM7).

Can it link up for multiplayer?  Almost certainly.

Can two people play on the same unit?  Almost certainly not.  Just imagine a second guy trying to play on a screen that another guy is holding/moving.

Does it play Game Boy games?  No.

Is it designed for 3D graphics?  With an ARM9 and ARM7, no more than the GBA I would think.

[Bill Aurion]

This is great...Just about every other post in this thread is talking about how this is a failure...So apparently, half the users on this forum can see into the freaking future!  If you guys can do that, why don't you tell us what Ninty's E3 lineup is!!!!!1111 </sarcasm>

[Rize]

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Originally posted by: DrZoidberg

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Originally posted by: pook

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Originally posted by: Mario
Okay, can someone tell me this. What can you do with two separate screens that you cant do with one really long screen?

well, that's why THEY are game designers and WE (especially YOU) are not.

i know every detail of your life from what you post here, and thus i can determin you definatly lack the skills and mental fortitude required to even consider designing games.

pook has gained: +23 arrogance point(s), ++1 post count point(s)

personally i'll be down if they include some form of mp3 playback, even if it's minor, and if this features GBA support (hopefully) the second screen could be used to have funky ID3 tag scrolling or some such, as for games, Metroid screen one Map screen two, DS Wars screen one, Statistics and Data Screen two. oh hay, i guess i'm a games designer now rhhrhr

For all of those arrogance points, you didn't do much better my friend.  

Imagine a game with an AI character somewhere doing something without your control.  You could use the second screen to keep an eye on him (for any number of reasons).

Taking current games and putting the pause menus on the second screen is not very innovative (though I'm sure it will happen more than once).

[Bill Aurion]

Something to point out:

Nintendo DS: 128 MB ram (I believe that's approx. around 1 Gig)
PSP: 8 MB ram

Strangely enough, I thought it would have been the other way around...  

[mouse_clicker]

Huh, you'd think everybody would wait to bitch until we at least saw a design, Johnny especially. Jesus Christ. :/  

[Kudou-Yusaku]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid101/p5cc3b0e394a803a2abebd995278c6df5/f9dfd355.jpg

[KDR_11k]

128MB isn't the RAM, it's the media size.

Two screens make sense. Descent allows you to make one of your stats screens show the view of the guidebot (Descent 2 only), missile view, rear view, etc. The UT2003 mod U4eT2003 has a weapon (tomahawk) that fires guided missiles that get their own little view in your main view. Like mentioned, team sports games would allow you to have a large overview of the playing field for planning your moves.
There's no reason this cannot be done with a larger screen, but that'd be inefficent concerning the size of the device