Topic: Nintendo Innovations 1: The hand controller.

[davidlow122]

Nintendo Innovation: The hand controller.
I thought I'd write a article on Nintendo's Innovations over the years. The most obvious, physical thing is the hand controller. So here's a list of what they've done.

Format:
System on which the Innovation made it's debut
Number. Name of Idea
Description
(Competitors systems or controllers which have stolen the idea)

NES
1.The hand controller itself.
Description: Before the NES controller there were only joysticks which were clumsy, fragile, badly made, and expensive. The hand controller allowed more precision, was more robust and was cheaper.
(Every hand controller since owes a debt to this!)

2.The digital + pad.
Description: Originally invented and patented for Game and Watches, the decreased distance between directions meant quicker turns, more precision etc. A revolution.
(Master system, Mega Drive/Genesis, Game gear, Lynx, Saturn, Playstation, Playstation Dual Shock, Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox)

3.Start and Select buttons.
Description: By adding system buttons to the controller, it allowed pausing, option browsing etc.
(Lynx, Playstation, Playstation Dual Shock, PS2, Xbox [start only: Mega Drive/Genesis, Game Gear, Saturn, Dreamcast])

4.The two button layout, Buttons named after letters (A and B)
Description: Pretty simple, but obviously effective since almost everyone has copied it. Buttons used to be named '1 and 2' or simply 'fire'.
( Mega Drive/Genesis, Game gear, Lynx, Saturn, Dreamcast, Xbox )

SNES
5.The four button layout
Description: Two sets of two buttons
(Mega Drive/Genesis[2 sets of 3 buttons, on the Genesis 2 controller], Saturn[also 2 sets of 3], Playstation, Playstation Dual Shock, Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox)

6.Buttons named X and Y
Description: Pretty simple, but once again obviously effective since almost everyone has copied it.
( Mega Drive/Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, Xbox [Playstation,  Playstation  Dual Shock and PS2 controllers also have an 'X' button])

7.Shoulder buttons (R and L)
Description: First use of buttons that use fingers other then the thumbs – another revolution.
( Playstation, Playstation Dual Shock, Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox)

Virtual Boy
8.'Handlebar' structure
Description: Allowed better grip for shoulder buttons (It was actually a Nintendo 64 prototype controller that first showed this feature, but Virtual Boy beat PS1 to the market with it)
( Playstation, Playstation Dual Shock,  PS2 [Dreamcast and Xbox have this structure, except the space between the bars has been filled in with plastic over the front)

9.Two directional inputs
Description: So right or left hands could have optional styles of input.
(Playstation Dual Shock, Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox)

Nintendo 64
10.The Analogue stick
Description: Another revolution, a major innovation that Sony couldn't even wait until the end of the generation to rip off, forcing everyone to go and buy new controllers to play the latest games.
(Playstation Dual Shock, Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox)

11.The rumble feature
Description: While Nintendo gave you an add on free with Starfox to have this feature, Sony made you buy a very expensive new controller for it.
(Playstation Dual Shock, Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox)

12.In controller memory card
Description: Reduced clutter on the front of the console – look at how ugly a PS2 is with several memory cards and a DVD remote plugged in to it. Phased out for Gamecube since Wavebird is a one way signal.
(Dreamcast, Xbox)

13.Separate camera control/strafe control (C buttons)
Description: Foresight as to what a 3D game would call for – Imagine Mario or goldeneye without the C buttons!
(Xbox [the Playstation Dual Shock's tacked on analogue sticks sometimes performed this task – badly, as they are too far from your grip )

14.the 'Trigger' style shoulder button (Z button)
Description: a shoulder button in a place where it is easier to control, giving a more precision feel. Developed by the Dreamcast controller into the Analogue triggers (in my opinion the most major innovation not from Nintendo)
( Playstation Dual Shock and  PS2's second shoulder buttons were widened and brought back from their original playstation controller positions to create some of this effect. Xbox and Gamecube have followed the Dreamcast development)

15.Four controller ports
Description: Simple, 4 player without an overly expensive adapter that is hard to get and nobody has.
(Dreamcast, Xbox)

GameCube
16.The camera stick (C stick)
Description: Development of the C buttons into Analogue format.
(Xbox)

17.The 'No Look' style button layout
Description: People don't have to look down to obey the on screen command to press the 'B' or 'Y' button – It's position and shape mean you know by feel
(No one has copied yet, although I wish Sony would do something about it. After eight years I still have to check which is square and which is O)

18.Digital click on Analogue triggers
Description: Another useful function added to an existing idea. For example, in Mario Sunshine, press to run with water, click to lock on the spot and pivot.
(No copy yet, although Sony and Xbox added a click to their analogue sticks)

19.Real wireless solution (Wavebird)
Description: Finally! No more cord tangle!
(They WILL copy. All of them)

Other stuff worth noting:

- Something everyone else's analogue sticks could use: the ridges on the outside rim bracket, present on N64 and Gamecube. They allow you to lock in straight if you have to, while still being analogue.

- Nintendo dropped the select button two generations ago. Once you had many more accessible buttons, another option button was obsolete. But Sony and Microsoft keep the button, even though it is never used (It's mostly used as an alternate pause to an inventory or map screen (eg. Resident evil). The Gamecube Z button is a better, more modern alternative.

- All three other companies (Sega, Sony, Microsoft) have released new controller for a system WITHIN a generation to combat features Nintendo's current controller already offered:

   - Sega had to release a six button pad for the Mega Drive/Genesis to handle Street Fighter 2, when a standard SNES pad already had six action buttons

   - Sony released the Dual Analogue to answer Nintendo's analogue control, and then the Dual Shock to answer Nintendo's Rumble pak feature, and then basically made sure you had to buy it by not supporting the old controller very well in some high profile games (Metal Gear Solid, Ape Escape). I really felt sorry for the people who bought the Dual analogue one (at the price of a game), and then had to upgrade again to Dual Shock (at the price of a game).

   - Microsoft released the Xbox 's' controller to combat another feature of the GameCube controller: comfort. Once again, the poor owner of 4 original controllers has to buy another to be able to reach all the buttons.

Well there you have it. It's amazing how blatant the theft of ideas is, especially the most important ideas, like analogue sticks. So next time that PS2 or Xbox fanboy tells you how good their controller is, point out how much it owes to the Big N's ideas!

[animex]

AWESOME!!!!

[Aussie Ben PGC]

Whoa, whoa - you're making it sound like Nintendo hasn't ever used other companies' ideas.  For example, sure, it's true that the GameCube has the Camera stick, but in the previous generation, it was Sony who came up with the idea of two analog Control Sticks (along with two extra buttons by clicking down the sticks - L3 and R3).  Similar to how the N64 Controller was used in every way possible in Super Mario 64, Ape Escape was the PlayStation's game that used every feature of the controller - using both sticks to paddle with oars, built-in rumble when getting close to a monkey with the Monkey Radar, firing the undersea Monkey Net by clicking down on L3.

There were some very clever ideas presented with the Dual Shock, all Sony's.  While it's true that Nintendo created the function of Rumble, Sony made it standard.  Nintendo thought that built-in rumble was such a good idea that they incorporated it into their next console controller.  The same thing for the Camera stick.  I'm actually quite surprised that Nintendo didn't add the extra buttons to the Control Sticks like Sony and Microsoft have.  It's really quite handy for assigning a particular function that you look at regularly (like a map screen).

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I slightly disagree: see Castlevania: Lament of Innocence.

[davidlow122]

Hey, I didn't say EVERY idea ever came from Nintendo, AussieBen, I was just listing those that did. But I'll address the points you have made, too:

__________________________________________________________________
Quote:
it was Sony who came up with the idea of two analog Control Sticks
__________________________________________________________________

True, but it does seem however, that it was a lame catch up effort on Sony's part. "You have analogue, well we have.........DUAL analogue!!! You have Rumble, well we have.......DUAL shock!!!

The N64 already had a 'digital second stick' in the C button suite, another stick is an extension of that idea, as evidenced on Gamecube's 'C stick'

And Ape escape, the first game to really use it on Playstation, came out 2 years after the original Dual analogue controller



__________________________________________________________________
quote:
While it's true that Nintendo created the function of Rumble, Sony made it standard.
__________________________________________________________________

Yeah, a standard of theirs YOU had to pay a lot extra for, didn't you read the article? The Dual Shock 1 was NOT STANDARD, that was the problem. I had to buy 2 new controllers at $70 Australian each to play some later games, when I had 3 original controllers.





__________________________________________________________________
quote:
(along with two extra buttons by clicking down the sticks - L3 and R3)
__________________________________________________________________

I mentioned this in the article, see item 18. The only game I've seen to use this in a way that makes sense is Tony Hawk, where you lock the camera with it. Halo uses it so zoom in a rifle, not as good as a shoulder button for this function in my opinion.
But more importantly, this function leaves more 'dead' space in the middle of the stick, making it less precise. The Xbox stick is ok, but the PS2 sticks are FAR, FAR too floaty



__________________________________________________________________
quote:
Similar to how the N64 Controller was used in every way possible in Super Mario 64, Ape Escape was the PlayStation's game that used every feature of the controller - using both sticks to paddle with oars, built-in rumble when getting close to a monkey with the Monkey Radar, firing the undersea Monkey Net by clicking down on L3.
There were some very clever ideas presented with the Dual Shock, all Sony's.
__________________________________________________________________

So let me get this straight: using all the functions of a controller like Mario 64 did is an idea 'all Sony's'?



__________________________________________________________________
quote:
Nintendo thought that built-in rumble was such a good idea that they incorporated it into their next console controller
__________________________________________________________________

Funny, the company that introduced rumble to controllers made it standard on their next console, but because another company got a console out sooner, they are copying?


Nintendo has used very few other companies ideas, and when they did I mentioned it (Two Analogue sticks, Dreamcast's analogue triggers), and even they were developments of ideas Nintendo introduced (N64 C buttons and Z button respectivley)

But I've given you EIGHTEEN POINTS of innovation that have been responsible for! Can Sony claim that?

[DrZoidberg]

protip, Sony own planetgamecube, watch what you say *nods seriously*

[S-U-P-E-R]

Maybe a few debateable points, but largely interesting since he makes a good point about the competition always coming up with new controllers to keep up (although it doesn't look like we're getting any this generation).

I take a major issue with every system current system manufacturer, though - controllers simply aren't flexible enough to handle every kind of game like they used to be, and it's due to not having enough buttons. I'm sure I've ranted about this before, but... since the Genesis (ver 2), Saturn, and N64 had a six buttons laid out on the face of the controller for proper fighting games and everything else, nobody else has an excuse to not include them. (The black/white on XBox obviously don't count if you've ever used them)

[Idiot Savant]

15.Four controller ports
Description: Simple, 4 player without an overly expensive adapter that is hard to get and nobody has.
(Dreamcast, Xbox)

The Atari 2600 had 4 controller ports.

[thecubedcanuck]

um, who cares???

[MeddmaWamm]

"6.Buttons named X and Y"

YES. Nintendo naming buttons "X" and "Y" is true innovation. Next time maybe they'll introduce a controller with buttons with DIFFERENT letters in the alphabet??? I hope so. It'd be great.

"The Gamecube Z button is a better, more modern alternative."

...I think the R1 button on the PS2 controller is a better alternative to the GameCube Z button.

"Sony released the Dual Analogue to answer Nintendo's analogue control, and then the Dual Shock to answer Nintendo's Rumble pak feature"

I thought there was only a Dual Shock.

"17.The 'No Look' style button layout
Description: People don't have to look down to obey the on screen command to press the 'B' or 'Y' button – It's position and shape mean you know by feel"

I remember where each button on the PS2 controller is. It isn't very hard. I remember buttons by their position on the controller, so having different shaped buttons doesn't help me. It just makes you end up with a controller with odd shaped buttons.

"Funny, the company that introduced rumble to controllers made it standard on their next console, but because another company got a console out sooner, they are copying?"

Yes, they are copying. Sony had built-in rumble first and they copied it.

[WesDawg]

LOL. If i remember right, rumble features started coming out built into PC joysticks long before console ones. It's impossible to figure most of this stuff out ever. As soon as you say one thing, someone else claims that Atari made a 2650 one time single issue model that had the feature long before Nintendo thought of it. I had wireless controllers for my 2600. They sucked, but I had them.

I do like the "No Look" style buttons a lot though. I, and most of my friends, have no idea which is the X or Y button on the Cube, and I'm pretty sure I'd never remember which was X and which is O on the PS2, but when I see that little odd shaped thing tilted to the right, my fingers move pretty quick. Of course Mario Party is never that helpful, but when it is, I like it.

[KDR_11k]

The thing on PC wasn't exactly rumble, Force Feedback had more options (it could tilt your stick in any direction). Force Feedback works by using motors to move the control part against a base device, rumble just vibrated the controller. With FF you could feel things like resistance, which cannot be done with rumble.
6 face buttons are overkill. I have six face buttons on my Sidewinder Pad, but they just keep confusing the player (happens pretty often that one slides off the right controls and uses another row of buttons instead). They're only useful for games using a button layout similar to the GC's (Eternal Fighter Zero, Fighting game, 3+1 layout). Why do people need six buttons for fighting games, anyway? OMF worked with 2!

BTW, it's noticeable how, at the beginning of the first 3d generation, everybody stuck to digital controls (the placement of the N64's d-pad suggests this), but at the end of the firs/beginning of the second everybody noticed analogue was more important. The XB and GC both have the a-stick as their main input now.

[Ian Sane]

"The Gamecube Z button is a better, more modern alternative"

...to having a tarantula lay eggs in your anus.  Sorry but thinking of the z button on the Cube controller as any sort of innovation is really reaching.  The truth is that third parties wanted a z button on the controller because they liked the legitimately innovative N64 z button.  Nintendo, not having any real plans on including such a button, just threw it any old place to shut them up.  Nintendo uses it for select button-ish features but those don't really benefit from the button's placement.  Third parties try to use it as an action button and run into problems because of Nintendo's half-assed answer to their request.

I find the Cube controller to be rather innovative in some ways but it really comes across as a controller designed for Nintendo alone.  Nintendo, for example, rarely uses the z button or d-pad and sure enough those two parts of the controller seem rather thrown on and are so poorly designed it's as if Nintendo is encouraging people to NOT use them.  The placement of the face buttons is great for exclusive first party games but doesn't work for as well for multiplatform releases and sucks royal ass for fighting games.

Nintendo's next controller, interestingly enough, should probably be designed to be LESS innovative and more generic so it can accommodate a wider range of titles.  I really like Ty's idea of having six face buttons of equal size.  Then add start and select butons, analog "clicky" L and R buttons, twin analog sticks (which are both identical, no nipple sticks), and a big SNES-style D-pad.  That would be a great controller.

[Bill Aurion]

The idea of 6 equal-sized buttons just doesn't sit too well on me...If anything, Ninty should go back to the N64 button layout...2 main action buttons, and 4 smaller ones...

[Deguello]

"'Funny, the company that introduced rumble to controllers made it standard on their next console, but because another company got a console out sooner, they are copying?'

Yes, they are copying. Sony had built-in rumble first and they copied it."

Wrong.  Suppose I invent the Car, and a month later I invent a Car Radio that you can install in the dash, 9 months later you "invent" a Car that has a Car Radio already installed.  In my next car model, since the feedback on the Radio was good enough that my competitors (you) used that idea, I made the Radios (my own invention) standard equipment, which is a logical conclusion, and I am not stealing your "idea," because I think it was obvious that my original idea involved the Car and Radio together.  By the logic of the quoted statement, you would then accuse me of stealing your idea of "built-in" Car Radios, which is a moot point and quite foolish considering I invented the Car Radio in the first place.  It's like you are accusing me of using my own ideas.

The origin of the force-feedback is debatable, but on consoles it was Nintendo's Rumble Pak that was first.  You might have a point about Nintendo copying Sony's Dual Shock if the Rumble Motor wasn't in the middle of the back of the Cube controller (logically, where the Rumble Pak {Nintendo's invention} was on the N64 controller), rather on the sides like the PS2 controller.  But since it is not, the Cube's Rumble Feature (hehe weird wording) is merely and extension of their own invention made standard.  And to say that Nintendo is stealing Sony's idea of "integrated" Rumble is quite ludicrous.  

[Ian Sane]

"If anything, Ninty should go back to the N64 button layout...2 main action buttons, and 4 smaller ones..."

No!  I hated the N64 C-buttons.  They gave me blisters because of those stupid arrows and it was so irritating to say "C-right" instead of just C.  If you've ever given the Saturn pad a decent go you'll like that design much better.

[Renny]

This may just end up being inflammatory, but all of Sony's controller 'innovations' are entirely unintuitive. Analog face buttons just over-complicate what would otherwise be very straigtforward: push the button. Now you have to consider how hard you're pressing it, leaving your thumb in pain after racing games. Or overshooting in soccer games. The buttons have far too little travel to offer any 'feel.'

Stick clicks are equally unnecessary, and compromise the accuracy of control, not only by increasing the dead-zone--as david mentioned--but also by making precise use of the stick while clicking impossible.

[DrZoidberg]

the ps2 buttons are analogue o_O there is some news for me (i also own a ps2)

[Bill Aurion]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
If you've ever given the Saturn pad a decent go you'll like that design much better.

I do own a Saturn, and I don't like the button layout nearly as much as the N64's...But in the end it just boils down to personal taste, which is something that definitely interferes with developing a mass-appeal controller...  

[Guitar Smasher]

You forgot the innovation of comfort!  Of all the system's I've played (a LOT), the GameCube's controller is the only one which doesn't hurt my hands after a couple hours of gaming, nor is akward (PS, IMO).  Yes the Z button and directional pads aren't perfect, but they also happen to be the least used parts of the controller.  I could say to my friends that I don't like the Xbox controller, but they would just reply "but now there's the S-type controller and it's the best thing ever!"   WELL SORRY,  I was talking about the S-type, I didn't realize anyone used the original controller!  I'm getting a little off topic, so anyways, I think it should be pointed out that after all the remodeling and reshaping, GameCube is still the only 'real' comfy controller.  

[Kyosho]

The only time I hurt was when I play certain sports games or fighting games.  The PS2's layout really hurts my hands.  The Gamecube is doesn't but the layout is not very well suited for fighting or sports.  I just don't find it too intuitive.  However, it's excellent for its 1st party titles.  My favorite controller was the N64.  I never got cramps mashing buttons.  It's layout suited fighting/sports games.  If they had made the C buttons larger, then it would have been an awesome controller.  In the end though, I think Nintendo's controllers feel the most comfortable of the 3 systems.   They actually put thought into ergonomics.

[Ian Sane]

"But in the end it just boils down to personal taste, which is something that definitely interferes with developing a mass-appeal controller"

That gives me an interesting idea.  Why doesn't Nintendo make more than one model of the controller?  All of the models have the same buttons and everything but they have things arranged differently.  So they can make the default controller however they like and then make variations.  Aside from the obvious arcade style joystick they can make a d-pad centric controller that's kind of like the Dual Shock and maybe a three ponged N64 like controller.  As long as each controller has the same buttons people then have the option of getting a controller that fits the types of games they play better without going third party.  Since we all need four controllers anyway they might as well give us some options.  If all of these models are available from the get-go it doesn't look like they had to change an inferior design.

[MeddmaWamm]

Nintendo also stole the idea of having memory card slots on the console!!!!!

[Ian Sane]

Actually Nintendo did steal the concept of memory cards.  I'm not sure if Sony did it first but I know Nintendo certainly wasn't the first to do it since they didn't have any sort of memory card until the N64 and the Playstation was already out by then.

[Bill Aurion]

That's because Nintendo didn't need it for it's cartridge-based systems...It's not like they had any other option for memory storage, anyway...