Author Topic: Metroid Prime 4: Beyond [Insert thinly veiled Back to the Future reference here]  (Read 829 times)

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Offline Evan_B

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Hi. I’m giving my volcanic opinions the audience they deserve, which is…

*Tumbleweed.gif*

So, Metroid Prime 4 is here, or at least, it will be here momentarily. For some reason, the only gaming podcast I listen to has no hype for it, so I’ve got to build that hype myself. For a while, I was very hesitant- I don’t think Nintendo has done a stellar job promoting this one all that well. I am resigning myself to the reality that it probably won’t be getting a Nintendo Direct, especially with the recent overview trailer. Then again, maybe Nintendo wants to keep the budget pretty tame when it comes to marketing, since apparently the game will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever make a profit.

With that said, this latest overview gives us what I think is the most comprehensive look at the game yet, and while I’m surprised by some specific details in both good and bad ways, I’m coming away feeling very positive. Let’s discuss.

The Good:
  • The music. I had heard some people worrying about the butt-rock-y guitars used in the earlier, and I was kind of in the same camp. But the music in this new overview sounded very in line with classic Prime tracks from Kenji Yamamoto and Kouichi Kyuma. Some might argue that this is one-note. I have been listening to the original game's OST on Nintendo Music and I say, "yeah, it is, kinda." I still think Talon IV's OST is very subdued in a way that the series moved away from in Prime 3, but the original managed to add subtle color in between those subdued tunes that the series hasn't always been able to recapture. Still, the orchestration did feel a bit more in-line with those earlier games and not merely high-intensity and sort of forgettable like in Dread.
  • The marines. This is one genuine surprise from this trailer and I personally think its a welcome one. Yes, they're all probably going to die horrible deaths, what with how much they talk about getting back home. But I do like that Samus is using them to open complex locks, deal with machinery and terrain outside her prowess, and the like. It feels a bit more authentic than the lock-and-key nature of previous Prime games and they also boast some pretty good animations and faces. It's... sort of weird seeing realistic faces in a Nintendo game.
  • The environments. They look nice.

The Bad:
  • The theming. The electric spire place looks nice and electric-y. The jungle looks very jungly. The volcano looks very magma-y... but man, it feels a bit odd to go from the very wild environmental theming of Prime 3 to "pick your extreme biome... and a lab!"
  • The bike. I was also sort of hoping that the Desert wouldn't be the only Vi-O-La free roam area (and to be fair, it very well might change/evolve or not be the only place where you can use it), but I find it a bit funny that the big hook here is "let's have an Ocarina of Time Hyrule Field." Using it to roll around in limited speed mode is a bit odd too, I wonder how that's going to work in gameplay. Hoping that we'll get at least a Vi-O-La sequence in the biomes themselves, and maybe a nice spectacular Vi-O-La fight.
  • The marines. I don't really love the over-specialized nature of these goofs, since the Federation gear was much more standardized before this and I find it odd that the Federation seems on track to match Chozo tech in the near future. The dialogue seems a bit on the nose also, but I'm willing to keep an open mind.

I adore Metroid Prime, and I loved replaying it in the remastered version three (?) years ago, and to be perfectly honest, I'm on the fence about playing it again before Beyond comes out. I think I'm going to hold off though, because I want this to feel very fresh. I'm just incredibly excited to play another Prime game and I hope it sticks the landing. Please, feel free to share your own, likely far more reasonable thoughts.

EDIT: I have learned that there is an abundance of dialogue and hand-holding. Everything is terrible.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2025, 10:22:56 PM by Evan_B »
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Online broodwars

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I had a preorder on the Switch 2 version, but cancelled it after the footage IGN released of all the (bad) hand-holdy, cringy NPC dialogue that kinda betrays the game's age as having been announced in 2017. I'm just not in the mood for that nonsense in my Metroid experience. The hand-holding was bad enough in Fusion, Other M, and even Dread to an extent without having persistent NPC helper characters as well. I get enough of that annoying **** in every Sony game made these days. I was also extremely uncertain about the whole "large desert hub area" as it was.

Maybe I'll change my mind once the reviews hit, but I have other games to play right now anyway. I'm working my way through Xenoblade 3 right now, and the physical version of Yooka-Replaylee comes out in a month.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2025, 09:33:55 PM by broodwars »
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Offline Evan_B

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Ah, but of course. No longer being on the pulse of gaming discourse has foiled me, as I’m sure there’s plenty of discussion of the previews in other waters. Ah well, the curse of not being in the loop constantly.
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Ah, but of course. No longer being on the pulse of gaming discourse has foiled me, as I’m sure there’s plenty of discussion of the previews in other waters. Ah well, the curse of not being in the loop constantly.

To its credit, the IGN Preview is hopeful when, after a point in their demo, the helper left to camp out in a particular area, so they were back to the usual Metroid rhythm. I just wonder "for how long" when it comes to that sort of thing, and while the character was with them they WERE responsible for keeping that NPC alive so it was an escort mission of sorts.

I'm hoping the game is good. Dread was alright, but 2D Metroid really isn't my thing and it's been a very long time since Prime 3. I'm just going to wait and see if we have an Aloy/Atreus 2.0 situation going on here.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2025, 10:47:56 PM by broodwars »
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Offline Evan_B

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I am trying to train my brain from knee-jerk, inflammatory sentiments like those I made above, which I think is a symptom of me being always primed to assess new info coming my way and part of the reason I stepped away from most all social media platforms. I’m going to reframe my perspective and try to be generous.

I totally get that most people want Metroid to be isolated, contemplative, and moody, and for the most part, I think the series has accomplished that in both its 2D and Prime branches. I say this even with the existence of Prime 3, which was a much more focused game with a lot more character dialogue and world building, not to mention Dread’s sort of culminating plot threads with a very mustache-twisting antagonist. And, I know, this is a hot take from the guy who hated Super Mario 3D Land, but I didn’t mind the larger universe aspects of Other M’s narrative and actually like that game on the whole.

My understanding is that this threatened Federation base is an experiment-oriented facility, which might explain some of the more unique Federation armors and… personalities. I’d like to think Retro has enough world building under their belt to explain it in that way. And to be maybe a bit too optimistic, I have to wonder how many more times we can encounter Samus on an abandoned, lifeless planet with layers of lore to be peeled back via scanning. I’m not saying I fully understand or like the inclusion of these more talkative soldiers, but as I mentioned before, I like the organic locks they put into place is a nice way of not simply retreading the same ground. I really don’t want to watch a great deal of footage, but I’ll definitely temper my hype moving into these final few weeks.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2025, 10:02:07 AM by Evan_B »
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Offline Luigi Dude

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The majority of previews have been overwhelming positive, with many outright praising it.  Even the ones that are critical of the NPC's, are praising everything else about the game.  And even then, from the footage the part with Miles takes like 10 minutes to do, and then Samus goes back to doing things on her own.

Seriously, John's latest video says it all perfectly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33aUDA9KnMQ

A lot of this reminds me of the discourse around Prime 3 when it came out in 2007.  The early previews had the intro where Samus was being helped by those 3 other Bounty Hunters and you had people say that was total bullshit and Metroid is ruined.  Well then the final game comes out and majority of the games interactions with NPC was literally in that games first hour.  And those 3 Bounty Hunters that were apparently ruining the isolation of Metroid, all ended up being bosses that you had to kill in the final game as well.

Plus I've watched the footage of the part with Miles and it's like, this is really making people mad?  I've seen a lot of games where characters say things way more annoying than anything he said in this demo.  It is rather funny how for years people kept saying Nintendo needs to make games like the rest of the industry, and yet when they make a game that's has things that would be considered normal in any other video game, people freak out and act like the game is now ruined.  If the part with Miles is apparently suppose to be game breaking, then that makes about 95% of all videogames ruined.

It's like seriously, do people want the Metroid series to continue or not?  For a game like Prime 4 to justify its cost, it needs to appeal to a wider audience than the previous Prime game did.  Prime 1 Remaster barely sold over 1 million copies on the Switch, despite coming out during the hight of the Switch popularity and had great reviews from both fans and critics.  In comparison, something like Skyward Sword HD sold over 4 million copies, despite both fans and critics being way harsher on the original and HD remaster, and with it literally costing $20 more expensive as well.

Games that are about pure isolation with no character interactions are super rare outside of the indie scene.  Hell, even many of these indie games that are suppose to be about isolation still end up having NPC's you interact with as well.  Even the Souls games which I keep seeing many point to as the perfect example of isolation done right, are literally filled with NPC who talk to you.  Some of them are even comic relief characters that kind of sound like Miles.  That's why I always laugh when some people point to the Souls games when people say Metroid could be more popular, when it's like, half of the reason for the success of Souls games is the multiplayer social aspect where many people work together to help over come bosses, or be dicks and kill other players.  Plus even many you just play single player will use summons so those varies NPC's they've meet can help them during the game as well.  So much of the success of the Souls games is the complete opposite of isolation.
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Offline M.K.Ultra

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I have the physical switch 2 version pre-ordered. I also recently got the amiibo with Samus and Viola, which looks really nice. I have played most Metroid games and liked all of them so this is an automatic day one buy for me. In these cases I avoid all media coverage so I go in fresh. Looking forward to playing it in December.

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It is rather funny how for years people kept saying Nintendo needs to make games like the rest of the industry, and yet when they make a game that's has things that would be considered normal in any other video game, people freak out and act like the game is now ruined.  If the part with Miles is apparently suppose to be game breaking, then that makes about 95% of all videogames ruined.

1. Welcome to the Resistance. :P

2. This is seriously, like, the Darksyde Phil of answers: "You guys kept telling me to do this for 10! YEARS! Now I'm doing it, and where is the support?!!!"

Maybe people got tired of waiting, and the time to do it has passed as people's tastes changed.

Games that are about pure isolation with no character interactions are super rare outside of the indie scene.  Hell, even many of these indie games that are suppose to be about isolation still end up having NPC's you interact with as well.  Even the Souls games which I keep seeing many point to as the perfect example of isolation done right, are literally filled with NPC who talk to you.  Some of them are even comic relief characters that kind of sound like Miles.  That's why I always laugh when some people point to the Souls games when people say Metroid could be more popular, when it's like, half of the reason for the success of Souls games is the multiplayer social aspect where many people work together to help over come bosses, or be dicks and kill other players.  Plus even many you just play single player will use summons so those varies NPC's they've meet can help them during the game as well.  So much of the success of the Souls games is the complete opposite of isolation.



Luigi Dude, have you ever...you know...played...a Single-Player Souls game? I've played them all, and this take is dumb and shallow.

1. None of the NPCs talk like rejected Borderlands/MCU characters interviewing for a cameo in High On Life.

2. All of them have very under-stated/depressing dialogue delivery.

3. All the dialogue for a given NPC throughout the entire game could be printed, double-spaced, on a cocktail napkin. They do not generally have much to say, but what they do say has meaning. Or sometimes it doesn't and they just softly laugh. There's a reason that's something of a meme with FromSoft.

4. Outside of the general hub areas, you will rarely see an NPC, maybe once every few hours or so, and you will spend maybe 30 seconds engaging with them before they jump cut to their next quest point or back to the hub area.

5. The player is rarely required to engage with ANY NPC. Even Soul Level 1 runs are an option if the player wishes to never engage with the maiden character who levels them up. And when they DO engage with them, it's of their own choice.

6. No NPC barks at the player. They only talk when spoken to. It is a choice, not a requirement.

7. If the player hates an NPC, the game allows them to kill them and remove them from the game entirely. In some games like Elden Ring or Dark Souls 3, this is actually a viable way to gain access to their inventory early.

8. Regarding Summons for boss fights: summons generally do not engage with the player and outside of the beginning or end of battle they do not talk, assuming they even have battle cries. They are mindless meat puppets where it does not matter if they live or die in the fight.

9. A substantial portion of the Souls community prefers to not use Summons. I prefer to use them because the balancing in modern Souls games is practically nonexistent, but many don't. They are an option, not a requirement.

10. Same with multiplayer: many, if not most, Souls players choose not to engage with it. I despise Invasions, myself, as it introduces an online troll to my solitary experience. I also prefer not to play these games with other players, as I value *my* experience as the developers intended it. It is an option, not a requirement. It's even an option in boss battles that USE multiplayer, as you can simply go offline to fight a different version of the boss.

11. Side note: while isolation is a strong appeal to the Souls-style format, it actually was created to foster cooperation. Miyazaki was inspired to make Demon's Souls from an experience where he was in a line of cars trying to get up a hill. Each driver would help the driver ahead of them make it up the hill, and the process would repeat. This is echoed in the games via both the online messages on the ground that players can CHOOSE to engage with as well as the summoning system. Yes, it is rather ironic that the "Git Gud" crowd actively disparages people that use these systems. I never claimed to LIKE the Souls community.

The problem isn't that Prime 4 has NPCs. So do a lot of games that value the solitary experience. This year's Hollow Knight Silksong has NPCs. The issue is the writing and the fact that the player is actively forced to engage with something they might find utterly annoying, as I do with what we've seen of Miles.

Now, I realize you seem to only engage with the Nintendo fanbase, but outside that little bubble people find characters like Miles incredibly annoying. Characters that never shut up was a common complaint with Horizon: Forbidden West and God of War: Ragnarok, to the extent that the devs patched in options to MAKE the characters talk less often. The most frequent complaint about the Borderlands games is that the humor is cringe and nobody shuts up. Miles is even painted in that lovely shade of Flourescent Yellow that everyone finds incredibly condescending these days.

The problem isn't that the game has NPCs, it's that what we've seen of the writing is obnoxious and the player is FORCED to engage with it. Always with modern games it comes back to terrible writing. You can't ignore Miles because you get a Game Over if enemies kill him. Meanwhile, he's spouting the blatantly obvious. You potentially can't even ignore him once he's left at a base or whatever, because radio chatter is a thing. And this is just ONE of the NPCs we know about. Who knows what the other...what...5 are like in-game?

Could all this be overblown? Absolutely, and I hope it is. Hell, it PROBABLY is, because I refuse to believe Retro is stupid enough to not learn from the lessons of Other M, but if Borderlands Light is the only way this series can "appeal to a wider audience", then I'd rather it be dead.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2025, 05:33:29 PM by broodwars »
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Offline Luigi Dude

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rant

You can move the goalpost all you want, but at the end of the day there's only 5 NPC's in Prime 4, compared to dozens in the average Souls games.  Complaining that NPC's ruin Metroid's sense of isolation is beyond silly, when Metroid games are still some of the most isolated games in the entire industry.

And once again, all the previews show the part with Miles should take the average player between 10-20 minutes to complete, then the rest of the game goes back to Samus by herself.  Even if the other NPC have similar sections, that still equals less than 5% of the game has you interacting with NPC, over the course of a 30 plus hour experience.

Plus did you even watch John Rairdin's video that I already posted above before freaking out at my Souls comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33aUDA9KnMQ

For all we know, most if not all of the NPC's could be killed off early on, or maybe even turn out to be bosses you might have to fight.  The Demo from back in the Switch 2 reveal shows the Metroid's that Sylux commands were able to transform the first boss into an even more powerful monster.  For all we know Sylux could uses those things to transform Miles into some kind of 100 foot mutant that you'll have to fight like Quadraxis in Prime 2.

Is there a possibility that the NPC's play a bigger role and get even more annoying, yes, that does exist.  But at the same time, how is what we've seen so far that different from Prime 3, which had a lot of dialogue and NPC interaction in it's first hour of gameplay, and then went back to being just like the previous games, until the very end where the Federation came back again.  How exactly is the game ruined by NPC's when they could literally take up less than 5% of the overall experience?

If this game ends up being over 30 hours long and 28 of those hours have Samus completely isolated, that's still more hours of isolated gameplay than the previous Metroid Prime games had.  So you really want the entire Metroid Prime series to die because you might have to occasionally deal with interacting with an NPC for 10 minutes every few hours?

Seriously, it's no wonder Next Level Games was getting death treats after Federation Force was revealed.  If Metroid fans are this irrational over something as having to deal with a few harmless NPCs, then no surprise they literally want to kill people when a game like Federation Force is shown off.
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OK, I'm going to try to make this quick. It's been a long day helping a family member move, and I'm not in a good mood.

rant

You can move the goalpost all you want, but at the end of the day there's only 5 NPC's in Prime 4, compared to dozens in the average Souls games.  Complaining that NPC's ruin Metroid's sense of isolation is beyond silly, when Metroid games are still some of the most isolated games in the entire industry.

1. Regarding "rants", Glass Houses, dude. You do it all the time, usually in defense of public perception of a $100 billion company that could not care less about you.

2. It's not goalpost-moving to point out that you're willfully ignorant when it comes to a franchise you've clearly never played, which you were and are. You know nothing about how those games play or how its fans play it, which is somewhat baffling when Dark Souls Remastered was on the Switch. You could have experienced it for yourself.

The number of NPCs is irrelevant. What matters is how the game uses them and how they impact the player. That is a crucial component of a game's atmosphere.

And once again, all the previews show the part with Miles should take the average player between 10-20 minutes to complete, then the rest of the game goes back to Samus by herself.  Even if the other NPC have similar sections, that still equals less than 5% of the game has you interacting with NPC, over the course of a 30 plus hour experience.

Let's say I'm going to an expensive restaurant. I pay full price for a good meal based on an old favorite. I'm told that it might have some of the tastiest food I've ever had...but every so often I'll have to eat **** because it's a local delicacy and certain patrons adore it.

I'm not going to eat the meal, because I don't want to eat ****.

Plus did you even watch John Rairdin's video that I already posted above before freaking out at my Souls comparison.

Yes, and I most likely watched it before you did. Look at the comments, where I called him out for building an entire video around the same strawman you're using rather than the issue people actually had with the NPC shown so far: the writing.

He even admits in a pinned comment that he ignored the writing complaints because he didn't want to deal with talking about it without more context. That's his choice. It's his video, but he's also basically ignoring the entire point of the online mockery so I found the video somewhat pointless.

So you really want the entire Metroid Prime series to die because you might have to occasionally deal with interacting with an NPC for 10 minutes every few hours?

1. The Metroid Prime series was already concluded with 3. I enjoyed 3, but the sub-series' ideas were already starting to stagnate by that point. I was fine with a 4th mainline game existing, but sometimes it's OK if a franchise ends when it's said everything it has to say.

2. There are currently 17 Metroid games, and before Roguelikes took over the Metroid format was the one most shamelessly copied by every other Indie game. The spirit of Metroid would live on without the franchise itself.

3. Yes, if a franchise I love for one thing becomes something I despise just to continue existing, then I'm happy with it no longer existing. Or to put it another way...



Once again, I'm hoping this IS all much ado about nothing. It might be nice to play an actual Switch 2 game on my Switch 2 for once. But I will wait and see for the videos and impressions once the game is out. The game lost the "blind faith" purchase.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:44:35 PM by broodwars »
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Side note about the topic title:

Considering the player spends a fair amount of time roaring across a desert wasteland in a motorcycle, I feel like the TC missed an opportunity to go...Beyond Thunderdome?  ;)
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Offline jarodea

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It's just previews of the beginning of the game so I don't see any, major, issue yet.  I've been with Nintendo since the beginning and Metroid is one of my favorite series since then so I'm getting it day one regardless.  That Miles character is a bit concerning.  I am more concerned since most of Nintendo's latest entries are my least or near least favorite in their series, Mario Wonder is my least favorite 2D Mario, Breath of the Wild is my least favorite 3D Zelda with a bullet, Mario Kart World is bad though still better than Super Circuit, Metroid Dread is a barely a "Metroid" game given it directly leads you from A>B>C>... (Other M is still the worst of course).  Where was I?  Oh, yeah, I'm hopeful this is just early game fluff and it will be as good as the rest of the series.

Offline Evan_B

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Prime

Side note about the topic title:

Considering the player spends a fair amount of time roaring across a desert wasteland in a motorcycle, I feel like the TC missed an opportunity to go...Beyond Thunderdome?  ;)
I know that Kensuke Tanabe has been hammering the desire to explore time travel in the Prime series into his interviews for ages, and the center tower of Viewros is Chronos Tower, and every Federation Soldier talks about being able to go home perfectly fine. So obviously, Lavos will kill them all and they’ll need to be replaced with Chrono Triggers.

With that said, I wasn’t expecting this discussion to go… the places it has. I have watched some coverage of the preview and I have seen some truly unhinged behavior (weaponized incompetence leading to minutes of poor gameplay, repeated voice prompts, and general inattentive or out-of-character actions), which leads me to believe that, much like every other form of journalism, much of this vitriol is being used for the purpose of outrage engagement.

I mean, I watched someone shoot Mackenzie for like 30 seconds uninterrupted, and willfully ignore the prompts he gave to help him out for a similar amount of time. There’s plenty of solo footage from the game that’s been posted elsewhere, as well. I understand that the quality of the writing is a major sticking point, but Retro/scan files confirm that Mackenzie is “talkative” which implies they are aware of this. Was it the best part of the game to use as a preview? No, but considering it is one of the earliest parts of the game and likely requires the minimal amount of skill from the journalists playing, it was the call they made and I can understand why people would be hesitant about the game afterwards.

I don’t know about the comparisons to Dark Souls- I have only played adjacent Soulslikes (Remnant, Another Crab’s Treasure, Animus, Mortal Shell, etc) and they range in the degree of isolation/interaction they offer. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Soulslike have an escort section, which sounds like a level of hell I’d rather not engage with, but I do see the point of density/deliberate interaction that is being raised, here.

Escorting Mackenzie feels like an attempt to emphasize Samus’s hero status and particular traits. She’s much more competent than him, has the skills and talents granted to her by the alien species of the week, and she’s dead quiet. I don’t see a problem with contrasting the two and the example of the actual escort segment feels pretty generous.

I totally understand the sentiment that this may not be the direction people want Metroid to go. On the other hand, I also understand that this has been the direction that the series has been leaning towards, both in 2D and 3D. The ratio of story to gameplay in Dread was perfectly fine to me.  Corruption’s narrative, while a lot more talky than I would have expected, had a good balance of isolation and conversation. I guess I understand why people want Samus doing dangerous stuff on her own and I think the investigative element of scanning and beam switching could be applied to a different IP. But until I can get more than a vertical slice, I can’t make the call on this one and I’m not going to argue that Prime should or should no longer exist without the spirit of isolation. What I will say is that I will take the fall for any too hesitant to buy after these previews. I might have too much faith in Retro, but I don’t think a single one of their games has fallen beneath the “good” line- only the first DKCR risked that.
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