Topic: Roms MIGHT be slightly legal now... maybe...

[ruby_onix]

Here's hoping I don't get booted for even bringing this up. But I think it looks interesting.

Apparently "circumvention of technological measures that control access to copyrighted works" is normally illegal, but the government just came up with some special exceptions that don't qualify for legal protection. One of them looks interesting.

http://www.copyright.gov/1201/

Quote
(3) Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.

I think basically it means that if the hardware needed to play your game isn't being made anymore, you're legally allowed to try and circumvent the technological measures that control access to your game, so you can play it on something else.

Like, they don't make TurboGrafx CD units anymore, so you're allowed to find ways to play your TGCD games on your computer.

I guess it depends on "interperetation", but I think it might apply to something like SNES games. Since new SNES units aren't being made anymore, and our units might kick the bucket any day now, and any preowned replacement units we buy might not be any more reliable (just pretend I'm not talking about Nintendo here ^_^;; ), we might be legally allowed to use something like an SNES game copier to upload our games to our PC's, so we can play them as ROMs.

I should probably point out that it doesn't look like anyone's allowed now to distribute ROMs or CD images to people over the internet because of this. You have to own your own game. And create the ROM by yourself.

But to some level, ROMs might be allowed to exist. And of course, once you have the games in ROM form, you can do stuff like add translation patches to them (like how you're allowed to use Game Genies and GameSharks). That's the part that interests me. It may now be legally possible to play Dragon Quest 5&6 in English. Just import the Japanese versions, and get yourself a Game Copier. Maybe. I think.


Does anyone else who maybe knows more about the law have any thoughts on this?  

[thecubedcanuck]

very interesting find

[Ian Sane]

Haven't ROMs always been perfectly legal if you own the game yourself and don't distribute it?  Isn't that the same thing as described here?  If I have to get a copy of the game and make the ROM myself what's the point?  If I'm going to go to all the trouble to get a copy of the game I might as well get the hardware too.

[vudu]

well here's something i've never quite understood....

you can create copies of games, cds, music, etc for backup purposes.  so what happens if i make a copy of a one of those, then i lose the original?  i no longer own an original copy (i.e. it was destroyed, stolen, lost, etc), so do i have to delete/destroy my copy, or is it still legal for me to keep, since it was its purpose in the first place?

[PIAC]

since when have laws ever been perfectly logical Ian Sane, ofcourse it would be much easier just to DL a string of games for one reason or another you could never locate (i.e. that's how i played chronotrigger) but should you own a game copier dealy and the cartriges, and your system breaks, then i guess who ever set this law down figured you have allready paid for both the game AND system, and given repairs wouldn't be a viable option, using an emulator/rom would be okay. doesn't really make much practical sence, but that's the reasoning behind it i'll bet.

[manunited4eva22]

In your case, you have a legal back up, but you cannot make a back up of that one.

As for making back ups of games, if it ever was legal, it isn't now,  look in your games when they are opened. That little packet says you cannot make a backup copy, etc.

[BigJim]

There was never a "legal backup" of video games, whether you own the game or not. That in itself is a misconception, no matter what anybody says.

This law would do exactly as it suggests -- legalizes duplicated, obsolete software for non-commercial means.

[GoldShadow1]

Eh, it seems to very rarely apply.  For one thing, most SNES games that people would really want have been ported to a more modern system at one point or another (FF on PSX, Mario/Zelda on GBA, etc.), thus an SNES is no longer "necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured" for those games.  Also, many older games are still "reasonably available in the commercial marketplace" through used games.  I suppose it's up for interpretation, though.

[Shift Key]

Quote
no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace

This could mean anything. Does Cash Converters count as "the commerical marketplace"? What is exactly "reasonable"? Why do I care?

There are so many legal technicalities around that you could get away either way - it just depends on how good a lawyer you can get.

This is why I hate lawyers too.

Ooh, time for a lawyer joke.
Q: What do you get if you bury a lawyer up to his neck in sand?
A: Not enough sand!

This article hasn't changed my view of ROMS - they are still illegal, like MP3s, because they are intellectual property, and any reproduced copies, whatever format it is, without the permission of the owner is illegal, regardless of the availability of hardware.  

[ThePerm]

see if you happened to make the roms yourself then it would be legal...however as soon as someone uploads and distributes the roms then it is illegal....downloading it from somewhere else is downloading a copy infringed rom.

[The Omen]

Roms are illegal?.....

[KDR_11k]

Shifty: There are exceptions to copyright laws called "Fair use". Those permit you to do things like making backups. If the EULA says different, feel free to ignore it, the law has precedence over any such agreement.
EULAs are written too general, anyway. Your country's laws will probably invalidate a lot of the EULA. For example in France the law grants explicit permission to reverse engineer software, the EULAs still state othrwise because they have one EULA for all countries.

[Djunknown]

According to the text mentioned, I can go grab a Neo Geo emulator, and get almost every single ROM I can get my hands on, and not have the feds or SNK playmore knock on my door. Neo Geo was hard enough (and expensive) to get access to when it was around in the 90s. So is it fair game now?

As shifty said, perhaps some SOUND legal counsel can remedy the situation. I'm pretty sure Nintendo will protect all their properties, regardless if they're easy to find or not (NES roms, Virtual Boy, etc.)

[TOY]

This topic is like the Energizer Bunny. It just keeps going and going and going. Who cares if the new law makes them legal or not, I say download MK64 and meet me online for some multiplayer fun. Besides I (STILL) own the original I just cant play that copy online.


TOY

[KDR_11k]

*smacks TOY with tuna*
Get MKDD if you REALLY feel the need to play Mario Kart online.

[TOY]

OW, stop that.

I will definitly ALSO be online with DD if I can find the BBA. When the tunneling software is complete that is. Personally I dont know why Nintendo doesnt release their own N64 Emu and roms. I would buy it to play on my computer. I mean why fight it they will never win. Honestly, I have quite a few roms, but the real reason I use the emu is so I can play MK 64 online.


TOY

[The Omen]

Quote
Honestly, I have quite a few roms, but the real reason I use the emu is so I can play MK 64 online.

Hmmm...i think i may do that.  The only Roms i have are SNES.  All the old RPGS i loved back in the day.

[TOY]

Let me know If you do The Omen, Because its hard to find people to play. Mostly people on Mame playing K.O. Fighters.


TOY

[Jdub03]

So what about the site called emugames.com.  They make you pay a 2.95 membership fee to download as many roms you want;  Wouldnt this be considered to be illegal also.