Author Topic: Rare: A Year Later  (Read 17976 times)

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Offline Gup

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2003, 02:36:17 PM »
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I loved rare(emphasis on LOVED), but you cannot  compare them to silicon knights and retro studios.

I'd trade SK and RS for Rare back anytime of the week, not that I have anything against them.

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Killer Instinct-supposed to be a launch title-delayed
Goldeneye-delayed over 18 months
BK-delayed 6 months
Dk64-delayed
Perfect Dark-Delayed
Conker-delayed numerous times
Dinosaur planet-delayed numerous times

And thats horrendous. I;'m sure all those games were delayed at some point, but i remember those listed. That was the main problem with Rare, waiting years for games they announced


So.  Even if these games were delayed(not sure myself), they still managed to dish out atleast one game a year and usually more.  The most delayed Rare game I can think of is Dinosaur Planet(aka SFA), but it's nothing in comparison to Silicon Knight's Eternal Darkness or the game so many are waiting upon, Too Human, not to mention that MGS: tTS may be delayed until march next year.
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Offline Jdub03

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RE: Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2003, 03:37:55 PM »
So they both have delayed games.  Big deal.  Thats really not the main issue.  Look at the innovation and the quality of the games.  Thats where you really start to see the inner workings of a company.  Even though I hate delays they can only benefit the game.  When a game is delayed, it allows developers to further polish their game.  Now when a game like say SFA is rediculously being push from date to date but gets a mediocre product out of it, thats when we can start to complain.  

Hey If you think about it Rares name represents the company quite well.  We rarely see any games from them these days.  Anyway,  I guess you could say rare is like a favorite memory.  You would love to go back and experiance it, but you wouldnt want the same thing that happened some six or seven years ago to happen to you right now.  It just wouldnt be the same(maybe thats not a good example but you get my point.).
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Offline joshnickerson

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2003, 04:30:50 PM »
Great article. Nice even view of both sides, though I have to agree that after seeing Grabbed by the Ghoulies and Conker Uncut, Nintendo got the much better deal. Funny how Conker is basically a remake of an N64 game, and Ghoulies doesn't look much better graphically than an N64 game.

Offline GaimeGuy

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2003, 05:03:43 PM »
Lets take a look at Rare's N64 & Cube games:

1996 Killer Instinct Gold - good fighting game, but (correct me if I'm wrong), had been in the arcade for a while, and as far as I noticed, it used most of the same move sets from the original KI... it just had some updated media (audio, graphics, a little added to control...)

1997: Blast Corps - Ok, most underrated game EVER

Diddy Kong Racing - a pretty damn good racing game.... but not the best out there.

Goldeneye 007 - what can I say? This game MADE the FPS genre on consoles. Everything before GE sold horribly, and usually was horrible.

1998 Banjo-Kazooie - cheesy platformer... here's where the collect-a-thon pattern begins!

1999 Donkey Kong 64 - BK clone.... collect a thon #2!

Jetforce Gemini - An action game similar in many ways to SFA: Flashy, but boring... from what I remember, I got bored, and the control sucked, as well. (That's what I remember).


2000 Banjo-Tooie - BK clone, but not quite as good as the original.

Perfect Dark - Stupid one player mode, and a horrendously unbalanced weapons system. This game was just made to be a cash cow, being "the New FPS from the makers of GE!"

2001 Conker's Bad Fur Day - urgh.... just a big movie parody... collect a thon shows again... kind of sloppy controls. Once you get past the toilet humor and spoofs of movies, you have a bland, unimpressive, sub-par platformer. This game had been in development since the beginning of the N64, I believe... and this is what Rare could come up with?

2002 StarFox Adventures - . YAY. A GAME WE STARTED FOUR YEARS AGO: A BORING ZELDA CLONE! This game had good control, sound, graphics, etc.... but there was one area that was the game's downfall. This game just wasn't FUN to play. Traces of the collect-a-thon style, perfected by Rare, show up AGAIN in this game.

    Rare started off nice... (even though DKR can't hold a candle to Mario Kart 64, and KI:Gold wasn't the most polished fighter), but come circa 1998 AD, things took a turn for the worse. They started using the basic collect-a-thon formula in EVERY GAME THEY MADE... it even exists in Goldeneye (some items you collected for a purpose, but there were also some that I couldn't find ANY reason for nabbing when I looked at the pre-mission briefings and checked to see if they had any functions. ) and DKR (collect x number of balloons to open stage R, nab the 8 coins to nab the one balloon to increase your balloon total by one! repeat for the next mission! oh, and here's a mirror mode to do it all over again!)

     The point is, Rare DID make some decent titles six or seven years ago, but since 1998, most of their titles have sucked, even with  longer development cycles and more resources. That was five years ago. Rare has never been the same since it released Goldeneye and Banjo Kazooie. Yes, they were once a great company... but not anymore. People need to open their eyes: This is 2003, and rare isn't as good as they were half a decade ago.

    Oh, and also, While Retro Studios may have only made one game, but they were VERY small.... not even 50 people, I believe.  With a team as small as that, you HAVE to be focused on only one game. And the case with Eternal Darkness? It took around two years to actually develop.... the problem was, it moved from PS, to N64, to GC, being rebuilt from scratch on the GC (took them two years to make the game from scratch on the cube) Rare's games, on the other hand, weren't delayed (except for SFA) to be moved to other systems. There's no excuse a single game (Conker) should take six years to develop for ONE console, with the resulting product being less than satisfying.  The  quality of Rare's games  is simply not enough considering the ridiculous amount of time they spend on the games.

Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2003, 05:19:00 PM »
I find it odd that quite literally EVERYONE was raving over Star Fox Adventures until Rare left.
"You know you're being too serious when Mouse tells you to lighten up... ^_^"<BR>-Bill

Offline GaimeGuy

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RE: Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2003, 05:20:49 PM »
I was raving over it until I got to play it. :/

Offline Mario

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RE: Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2003, 05:23:46 PM »
I disagree ^^^ (edit: at gaimeguys post three posts above)

Conkers Bad Fur Day is a great platformer, on par with Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine in my opinion. Yeah sure it was funny, but it also had great gameplay. One of my favourite games of all time. I LOVE Perfect Dark, it was just brilliant, and brought many innovations to the FPS genre. Besides the framerate it was one hell of a game. Banjo Kazzooie and Tooie were amazing adventure games and platformers. I also enjoyed Starfox Adventures very much, i cant help that, i guess i still like Rare. Does that mean my eyes are closed?

EDIT: I must admit i hyped Starfox Adventures beyond belief before it came out, i also thought it would sell 2 million copies last year . When i finally played it was just "really good". I was expecting a brilliant masterpiece that would rival The Legend of Zelda. It could have been so much better, but i still like it.

Offline Hostile Creation

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2003, 05:29:16 PM »
I enjoyed playing SFA, and it kept me entertained while I played it, but it is probably the least good game I have for the Gamecube (Darkened Skye, of course, discluded.  That one doesn't even count anymore).  And DK64 is definitely the worst for 64.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2003, 05:29:23 PM »
I completely agree with Mario. I seriously don't see why you guys complain about SFA all the time- sure it was no Zelda, but then again what adventure game is? It had a few problems but I enjoyed it immensley (and to all you bitching about collecting, I direct you to the Triforce charts from Wind Waker). It seems the attitude of Rare's recent game completely changed once they left- what we once loved we now had no desire for. Why is that?  
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Offline Infernal Monkey

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2003, 05:34:13 PM »
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Originally posted by: GaimeGuy


1997: Blast Corps - Ok, most underrated game EVER


Agreed. This will forever remain one of my favorite Nintendo 64 games ever, even though I never could beat it.
Great article, though. Personally, I am a little confused by Rare at the moment. I would of thought they'd be trying to push some of their more mature themed ideas on Xbox (As in darker storylines and so on). Do they not know the target audience of Xbox is "cool" people? The people who love to diss GameCube due to its cartoon themed games?

Will Rare's new kiddy look Perfect Dark sell on Xbox?

Offline Gup

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2003, 05:38:22 PM »
For all the Rare haters(aka Nintendo fanboys), the solid proof that Rare made mostly "A" class titles, here are the average rankings of all N64 and GCN titles from Gamerankings.com:

Killer Instinct Gold - 69.4%
Blast Corps - 87.6
Diddy Kong Racing - 87.7
Goldeneye 007 - 95.9
Banjo-Kazooie - 92.0
Donkey Kong 64 - 88.6
Jetforce Gemini - 80.6
Banjo-Tooie - 89.2
Perfect Dark - 95.0
Conker's Bad Fur Day - 90.1
StarFox Adventures - 80.7

And there you have it, an 87% average.  So what if the games didn't age well, they were good for their times and some still are.  Let's not forget that they thrive in many different genres too.  Well, let's hear it Rare haters, any comments for one of the few Rare fans alive that's a Nintendo fanboy as well.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2003, 05:41:56 PM »
I wish GameRankings would include averages for developers. Anyway, you're really passionate about this, Gup.
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Offline Mario

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RE: Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2003, 05:43:36 PM »
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It seems the attitude of Rare's recent game completely changed once they left- what we once loved we now had no desire for. Why is that?

I think for most people it stems from bitter hatred for a certain company, even if they wont admit it
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Will Rare's new kiddy look Perfect Dark sell on Xbox?

Nope, it might sell on Xbox 2 though

Offline Gup

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2003, 05:47:32 PM »
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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
I wish GameRankings would include averages for developers. Anyway, you're really passionate about this, Gup.

Rare's possibly my favourite developer.  I know some people will lash out if there was a thread about how Monolith Soft was overrated, but ofcourse I don't think that(, you know who you are).
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2003, 06:18:38 PM »
As I said before, Rare will always have a place in my heart, no matter what happens to them, or what people say about their games
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Offline Termin8Anakin

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RE: Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #40 on: September 16, 2003, 08:32:22 PM »
Rare will have a place in my heart as well.
Mario and Infernal would know this just from hearing me talk about it, but I'm sorta one of those people that outwardly hate them, but secretly love them.
OF course that's the case, cause i loved DKR, BJ and BT the most.
I could never really get into the FPSs (GE and PD), since I don't really like those game. COnker was alright, not the best (BK and BT are), and while JFG is quite sh*tty in the layout, i enjoyed the game. I really didn' see the point of Blast Corps and KI.
I have Starfox Adventures, but only cause i got it for free.

So on average, i only really liked Rare's kiddy games. JFG was kiddy to an extent.

It's true that i AM bitter toward Rare for going to MS, but that's life.
I actually wish that some of their games fail just to see that Nintendo was what made them into what they are/were.
Notice how most of the people there that left formed/joined companies so that they could, in essence, make Nintendo games, even if it's multiplatform?
Hahaha.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2003, 04:24:00 AM »
I'm still not sure about Rare. I have never played any of their games except for Battletoads for GB, which sucked. So, I have no idea what kind of game Rare makes.

On the otrher hand, stop treating Silicon Knights like they're a new one-hit-wonder company!
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2003, 04:45:46 AM »
Yep, Too Human's been in development since the mid PS/N64 era...a very loooong time
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Offline The Omen

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2003, 05:25:54 AM »
 Who cares about the game rankings?  Cant we judge for ourselves?

I dont miss Rare at all.  I liked 3 of their games, the rest were average or slightly above.  Most of you peple are overrating Rare because there was nothing else being released for the N64.  Releasing a solid game amongst no competition is what made this Rare myth.  

There is no jealousy from me, as frankly, i didn't pray at the alter of Rare in the first place.
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Offline bryanee

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2003, 02:02:19 PM »
First things first I like RARE and will always have spaces in my games collection for new RARE games (if they are good). Theres no denying they have produced some brilliant games.

My personal faves:-
Donkey Kong country
Blast Corps
Killer Instinct (snes)
Goldeneye
Perfect Dark (nowhere near as good as GE though)

They have also made some stinkers aswell ill probably called mad for this but games such as Banjo, DK64, diddy kong racing (sorry but that is one piss poor racer), it does seem as though RARE have lost the plot a little bit with there endless collectathons Banjo, DK64 etc. There latest Xbox efforts hardly seem great, I have high hopes for Kameo but it just isnt doing it for me, grabbed by the balls (goulies) looks piss poor from videos I've seen. They both seem like they may turn into more collectathons but hopefully Ill be proved wrong. AND NOW PERFECT DARK isnt coming out until 2006, more than likely on the next xbox console.
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Offline bryanee

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2003, 02:03:20 PM »
sorry double post - this site being really slow for me lately, having to double click alot
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Offline egman

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2003, 05:30:25 AM »
Interesting read, though I have to wonder about the writer drawing comparisons to the Capcom 5 and Rare support.

In any case, I think Nintendo made the right choice. Considering how much it would have cost Nintendo to fully buy out Rare in contrast to what they would get out of them, Nintendo would've ended up on the short side of the stick. I'm already seeing people in this thread questioning the talents of SK and Retro, but whatever you may think of their track record, they help bring variety to Nintendo's offerings.

Rare has made a variety of games of course, but mostly they worked on platformers which oftened played similarily to Nintendo's, an observation that I feel played a part in Nintendo's decision to not buy Rare out. SK has a certain style of cinematic adventures, something that Nintendo has little of. I'm not sure what direction Retro will take when they're done with Metroid Prime 2, but they have at least shown some real skill in first person action games--again, a genre that Nintendo could use more of. Nintendo really doesn't need another Banjo game or something like Grabbed by the Ghoulies.

In the end, I don't think we will really know what effect Rare's absence will have at least until they get all of their Xbox games out. However, I'm willing to bet that Nintendo's pursuit of stronger ties with specific high profile 3rd parties coupled with thoughtful usage of their current second parties will do far more to help Nintendo than having Rare onboard.

Offline Boffo

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RE:Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2003, 11:12:21 AM »
Perfect Dark Zero to come out for XBox 2

http://www.cube-europe.com/news.php?nid=5403

The people that deserted Nintendo and bought an XBox for Perfect Dark must be pissed that it's not even coming out on that system either.  

Offline Don'tHate742

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RE: Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2003, 12:39:16 PM »
I want my damn KILLER INSTINCT. Too bad we lost Rare, I couldn't even imagine the type of games they would be throwin at us. Definitely a bad business decision....

What's with rare Action/Adventure games always turning into a collection fest, they should take that out and leave the good stuff in.

Thank goodness I have an xbox and a gamecube.
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Offline Plugabugz

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RE: Rare: A Year Later
« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2003, 12:47:00 PM »
I loved Rare for Goldeneye, I haven't played any of the other games however.

But what I want to know, did Nintendo only spend the revenue from the sell off, on only Silicon Knights and Retro Studios??