Topic: Eidos drops all Gamecube support

[MeddmaWamm]

Nintā‚¬ndo
$onĀ„
Micro$oft

I'm so clever.

[mouse_clicker]

Childish name calling? You called ME a douche, ignorant, and stupid on innumerous occasions. Since you've taken to directly attacking my case, let me tell YOU why I think Sony has done some good.


Number 1- Sony gave power back to the 3rd parties. Before, Sega and Nintendo had 3rd parties in a vice and could force them to do anything they want. If you're so "knowledgeable", read Game Over and you'll find Nintendo was every bit as money hongering as Sony will every be, and then some. The NES was intended to be the Trojan Horse that allowed Nintendo to control almost every bit of people's lives. STOP painting Sony as the evil corporate entity and STOP painting Nintendo as the perfect picture of innocence. The whole reason Nintendo has been declining in business since the NES is because of comnig down on 3rd parties. This generation they've largely changed that, but all the way up to the N64 Nintendo had money on the mind (as every good business should). Sony took the power away from the 1st parties and gave some of it back to the 3rd parties. That's one of the main reason that the Playstation not only crushed the N64, but became the best selling console in history.

Number 2- Sony popularized the disc based medium. Nintendo had been very clingy towards cartridges and 3rd parties didn't like that. They were the better medium, but they also had less space than CD's, were larger than CD's, and more expensive than CD's. Nintendo ignored 3rd parties and went with a cartridge based console anyway. Sony, on the other hand, chose to go with CD's (WHICH it helped create, might I add), and 3rd parties flocked to the Playstation. Games were cheaper and larger than those on the N64 and this translated not only into better sales for developers, but more profit as well. If it weren't for Sony popularizing the use of discs rather than cartridges, we'd still be paying $60+ for games and developers would be losing a LOT of money.

Number 3- Sony brought gaming into the main stream. I know you see this as bad, and you have this grim depiction of the gamnig industry going down the tubes, but it was probably the best thing that ever happened to this industry. Sales skyrocketted, genres created, and prices dropped. Before the Playstationm only nerds and geeks played videogames. Now, almost everyon does. Sony made videogaming a part of the world culture, and cemented the idea of gaming in everyone's mind. You may hate Sony for this very reason, but you're just being elitist. Fact is, I've had more fun gamnig after the Playstation than before, and I've seen some of the most original and best videogames ever created happen post-1994.

All I've heard you spout is "$ony is teh evil!!!!!!!!! OMG!!" If it's a debate you want, it's a debate you've got. If you don't want to continue in this thread, PM me. I'm waiting for you to completely destroy me "intelectually". I thinkyou're just backing down.

[AgentSeven]

$ony is guilty of doing the EXACT same things you blame Nintendo and Sega for.  If you were a little more well informed, you would know this.

Also the CD medium allowed for tons of crap developers to enter the market and flood it with piss poor games.  That's the exact reason that console and game sales are slowly declining.  The market is flooded wtih look-alike titles.

Finally, it was NINTENDO that brought games to the mainstream, and before them it was Atari.  Get your facts straight.  Maybe if you weren't a 10 year old you would know this.  Peopl like you give $ony credit for inventing the wheel for God's sake, when all they really did was copy other peoples best ideas.

Seriously, many, many people agree with me when it comes to the evil forces of $ony.  They are the only video game company that I hate.  It sickens me that I must own a $ony system to play games made by my old, NES/SNES era, 3rd party favorites.  

I'm done with this.  Your ignorance is clear.  As is the fact, that you seem to be on your computer 24/7.  Which means to me, the you are probably a loner, w/ very few, if any, friends at all....

[Rich]

Hey Mouse I'm gonna have to disagree with the thing you said about having more fun playing games since the playstation came out. I'll admit that there have been a lot of good titles since Sony introduced the PlayStation but I think there were a lot more good games on the NES, SNES, Genesis, and all that other good stuff. Sorry but I guess its just a difference of opinion.

Oh and about Sony, I would say that they came into the gaming industry with the idea of style over substance and that good marketing would sell even the crappiest(sp?) games but recently they have been getting some good games out. Sony is a lot different than Nintendo though, Nintendo always said that its the games that count and they proved it when the NES sold better the sega's Next gen system but since Sony jumped into the market its all about whats cooler. In fact when I went to go buy Madden 2004 there were 2 ten year olds debating if they should get an Xbox or a PlayStation2 and the PlayStation2 won because the older kid said Halo wasn't that good and that PS2 was cooler. Thats what Sony has done to the industry.

[Rich]

Hey Mouse I'm gonna have to disagree with the thing you said about having more fun playing games since the playstation came out. I'll admit that there have been a lot of good titles since Sony introduced the PlayStation but I think there were a lot more good games on the NES, SNES, Genesis, and all that other good stuff. Sorry but I guess its just a difference of opinion.

Oh and about Sony, I would say that they came into the gaming industry with the idea of style over substance and that good marketing would sell even the crappiest(sp?) games but recently they have been getting some good games out. Sony is a lot different than Nintendo though, Nintendo always said that its the games that count and they proved it when the NES sold better the sega's Next gen system but since Sony jumped into the market its all about whats cooler. In fact when I went to go buy Madden 2004 there were 2 ten year olds debating if they should get an Xbox or a PlayStation2 and the PlayStation2 won because the older kid said Halo wasn't that good and that PS2 was cooler. Thats what Sony has done to the industry.

[mouse_clicker]

Find where I said Sony WASN'T subject to what I accused Nintendo and Sega of and I'll give you a cookie.

And while it's true the CD medium allowed a lot of crap developers to come in, it also allowed a lot of GOOD developers to come in who couldn't afford cartridges. Why should developers have to be rich just to make a game?

And Nintendo worked towards bringing videogames into the mainstream, but no one had actually done it yet until Sony entered the scene. Almost everybody will tell you that. Atari just plain destroyed the industry- if Nintendo hadn't come along, we'd all be playing arcade games, if that.

Look, I'm not saying sony's the greatest thing to ever happen to videogames- I AM a Nintendo fan. However, I also don't think they're out to rape our wives and eat our children, either. Why don't you stop attacking ME and actually come up with some good arguments- all you've done is insult me so far, and while I'm not free from it myself, I have abstained from it recently so we can have an HONEST debate. Stop trying to make me seem like a loser with no friends and acutally bring up some convincing reports. I fail to see how Sony is destroying videogames, and as of yet you haven't told me why I should feel that way. Stop being a hypocrite and convince me.

"Thats what Sony has done to the industry."

Sony didn't tell anyone to do anything- those kids argued upon their own free will and were'nt forced to.  

[AgentSeven]

I have put out nothing but convincing arguements backed up by real world facts.  Yet, the only thing you see is your own point of view.  Your'e arrogant and ignorant at the same time, and truth fully, flaming you is a waste of web space, so I'm done with it.  

Now you can feel good about yourself while you sit in front of your computer 24/7....

ps. have I said that $ony sucks and that their attitude towards gaming has really hurt the industry?
Most of the major developers agree w/ me....

[mouse_clicker]

Are you stopping, then? Is it because I'm "igorant", despite proposing arguments in support of my case, or is it because you've got nothing left? I'm not arrogant enough to choose which of those is true, but I don't trust you to tell me, either. Why don't you stop telling me "developers agree with you" an actually bring some relavent stuff to the board. The only thing you've said that was remotely post worthy was responding to what I said- have you anything else?  

Never said $sony sucks, hm? I'll ignore the fact you changed your sig to that very same subject, as it was most likely in response to me, but you have to have forgetten this:

Quote
posted by AgentSeven Sun September 07, 2003 4:24 PM:
"You need to calm down. I can say $ony sucks if I wan't to and I stand by that statement."

Never said $ony is damaging to gaming?

Quote
posted by AgentSeven Sat September 06, 2003 11:38 PM:
Still, I can see the writting on the wall, and $ony's philosophy has been very damaging to gamers everywhere.  

[AgentSeven]

Your contradicting yourself now.   Since you love reading my posts so much, when did I deny saying that $ony isn't hurting the game industry?  It's the one thing I say the most.  They are like a disease.

However, the best argument was put out by Rich.  What he said about those two children is painfully true.  yes no one forced them to buy a Ps2, but they might as well.  Advertising and hype works so well in this day and age, that a corporation can practically tell people what to think.  It's really scary actually.

Thanks to Rich for his intelligent comments.  I'm glad to see that at least one person understands my fears.

Mouse, I'm done now, seriously.  Your starting to take this personally.  Truthfully, I've just been giving you crap for the sake of teasing you.  But seriously, this has gone to far.  Im suprised this thread hasn't been closed.

ps. did I say that $ony sucks?  (just having a little fun with you.)

enough already

[mouse_clicker]

And by "lvoe reading your posts" you mean "Actually read them", right? You have been doing that with my posts, right?

And I'm not denying that Sony has had negative effects on the industry, or even that their positive effects have outwieghed their engative effects (as I feel is the case with nintendo). However, hating Sony with every fiber of your body is the epitomy of stupid.

And by your love of Rich, I can now glean something important- anyone who doesn't agree with you, no matter how they've presented their opinions, is ignorant, stupid and automatically not worth your time. What if someone came in here in support of my case, would you bash them, too?  

[AgentSeven]

dude, enough already, ok.  This has gone on too long.  Rich has a good point, that's all.

[mouse_clicker]

If you don't want go on anymore, that's fine, but keep in mind you will have done so providing absolutely no reasons why you think Sony is evil.

[Kyosho]

I actually agree with Mouse about Sony having good substance as well.  sony is not that bad of a company.  They have several good games for the PS2 and all that other stuff.  Not going to bother going into detail.  

[Bill Aurion]

I have to agree that Sony has been slowing down recently.  Of course it just might be my taste in games, but there have been very few titles that have caught my eye.  Games like J&D and Sly Cooper are incredibly dull.  Thankfully there are developers like Insomniac(Rachet & Clank) that keep my PS2 from gathering too much dust.  Can't wait for the sequel

[AgentSeven]

Oh for God's sake.  Here's why I think $ony is evil if you must know, again...

They flood the market with look alike titles.  Their approach to gaming is all about "style over substance,"  marketing over real gameplay.  This is like Hollywood approach to movies.

They rip off other peoples best ideas (I.E. The PSX was colored Gray so that it would remind people of the NES, The Original Dark Cloud's main character looked suspiciously like Link, they claimed online gaming was the "way of the future," when actually the Dreamcast had done the online "thing" two years earlier, they aggressively courted all of Nintendo's best developers, knowing full well that the could ride the success of the SNES era 3rd party games,etc.....)

They told ridiculous lies about the so called "power of the ps2" and how it was supposedly "4 times more powerful than the Dreamcast."  A lie that has been completely disproven. (Visit www.dcemulation.com for the story.)

They formed a partnership with Nintendo only to steal their best ideas and in hopes of eventually taking over Nintendo with a classic "hostile takeover" using stock they would receive in the partnership.

Worse yet, almost any no-talent developer can make a game for any $ony system.  This situation reminds me A LOT of the years before the video game crash of 84.  Where Atari allowed developers to flood the market with crap games, exactly what $ony is doing now.  This attitude hurts gamers everywhere and it hurts the industry.

Nintendo was so concerned about the state of the industry that it started to have secret meetings with several of the worlds largest publishers.  Essentially attempting to convince developers that the "$ony Philosophy" was bad for business.  Several agreed, including Namco, Sega, Midway, EA, and even Square, which is 19% owned by $ony!  

Then there's $ony's tendency to build shoddy products that break down very soon after the warranty expires.  It's call "PLANNED OBSCELESCENCE."  Now you may say that Nintendo does the same thing, but that would be untrue. Even though their have been some complaints about "disc read errors" on GC, they are NOTHING compared to the MOUNTAIN of complaints reguarding the PSX, PS1 and the PS2.  Just do a search for "defective playstation" or "playstation complaints" on ANY search engine and you will see what I mean.

Man, I could go on for HOURS here with even more proof, but I won't.  I'm actually really sick of talking to you Mouse, and I think you may even be a little mentally unstable. Seriously, I'm starting to feel sorry for you....

Enough already

[AgentSeven]

Here's a link from the US Department of Consumer Affairs website about a proposed class action lawsuit against $ony for making such crappy products.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news03/playstation.html  

[AgentSeven]

Here's some more comlaints.  Note that the first one comes from a respect PRO-$ony website and that the last link cites and article where $ony ADMITS that their products aren't up to snuff.

http://www.psxextreme.com/scripts/news2/new.asp?newID=362

http://www.gamingworldx.com/features/PlayStation2DiscReadErrorDRERepairGuide.shtml

http://www.fragland.net/index.php?page=newsitem&nid=5308

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/16044.html  

[theRPGFreak]

I might be a little late to reply to this topic, but I have had alot of good laughs reading the thing! I found out how you can tell ehen you have made Mouse_Clicker angry once he says "Jesus!" in a post, I saw a cool Nintendo room, and I think that AgentSeven has made alot of good and intresting points(along with ticking Mouse_Clicker off") If I was not at work today, I would have been in the middle of the whole article having fun of mouse_clicker's rage. Oh well, about Eidos, the only game that I liked that they had was Time Splitters, which seems to be with a new developer now, so I really wouldn't care if the company went out of business.
This is the RPGFreak over and out!

[Mario]

Hey Agentseven. Nintendo copied videogames from Atari. Sony invented the Eye Toy. Sony made Final Fantasy twice as popular as Nintendo could ever dream of. Sony made Gran Turismo. Sony Playstation 2's can play DVDs and have more games available on them than the GameCube does.

I bet all this ticks you off huh?

Quite simply, you're full of crap.

[RickPowers]

Why don't all of you grow the hell up?  Take the childish name-calling somewhere else.