Topic: Should/will Nintendo follow PS4 price cut

[Mop it up]

I don't think a drop to $249.99 is enough to make a difference, but I do think a $199.99 price point could have an impact, if it's feasible. The increase in game sales should more than make up for it, which have higher profit margins than hardware anyway.

It is a risky call though, because it's tough to predict what could happen.

And yeah, dropping the GamePad is a bad idea, especially at this point. For better or worse, it's the only real thing that makes the system more than just another Xbox 360/PS3. So I don't think its absence would help sales, even if it allowed for a drastic price decrease.

When the Wii U Pro Controller, Xbox One Controller, or PlayStation 4 Controller cost $50+ to maintain a certain level of quality and make a profit, I don't think it too much of a leap to imagine that the Wii U at $299 might be at cost or a slim profit.

I'm fairly certain that those controllers have huge markups. They can get away with that because they're somewhat of a necessity. Besides, Nintendo used to sell the Classic Controller for $20, and the main difference between that and the Wii U Pro is the battery. I can't imagine a battery costing an extra $30.

The Wii U is ancient technology at a premium price. If it's really that expensive to manufacture, something's gone screwy...

[Luigi Dude]

Oh, right. Yes, that is true as of right now. But the truth is, Nintendo is made up of a bunch of developers get like to make iterative 2D platformers more than anything else, which is likely the reason no one finds them relevant.

Number of Nintendo 3DS million sellers - 25

Number that were 2D platformers - 3


Number of Nintendo Wii U games that are million sellers - 11

Number that were 2D platformers - 3



Yep Nintendo is making nothing but 2D platformers alright.

[ThePerm]

Oh, right. Yes, that is true as of right now. But the truth is, Nintendo is made up of a bunch of developers get like to make iterative 2D platformers more than anything else, which is likely the reason no one finds them relevant.

Number of Nintendo 3DS million sellers - 25

Number that were 2D platformers - 3


Number of Nintendo Wii U games that are million sellers - 11

Number that were 2D platformers - 3



Yep Nintendo is making nothing but 2D platformers alright.

that's almost like a political burn. Someone says something wrong, and then someone else just shows statistics.

to answer other peoples questions about how Nintendo can't get all manufacturing costs down on wii u and Sony and MS can. Its because Nintendo are fucked over by manufacturers. They go to the same companies, but Nintendo gets the shaft.

The controller doesn't help though either. 

Again, I think the best way to counteract the value of the other systems is to include a volume of pack-ins. This creates some reason for people to buy the system without screwing with the profit margin. It should of course only include games that have already sold a million. Why not buy the system if you get 4 games with it? That would be a no brainer.

of course they should sell a console version without the pack-ins just to outline the difference and to create that psychological effect. False choice. $250 no pack in. $300 1 pack in. $350 5 pack ins.

[broodwars]

Oh, right. Yes, that is true as of right now. But the truth is, Nintendo is made up of a bunch of developers get like to make iterative 2D platformers more than anything else, which is likely the reason no one finds them relevant.

Number of Nintendo 3DS million sellers - 25

Number that were 2D platformers - 3


Number of Nintendo Wii U games that are million sellers - 11

Number that were 2D platformers - 3



Yep Nintendo is making nothing but 2D platformers alright.

You showed statistics on games that sold over a million copies relative to how many of those are 2D platformers. That does not refute the claim that Nintendo makes mainly 2D platformers.

[Ymeegod]

And you don't need to drop the Gamepad entirely, you can just sell it separately for those that actually want to use it.  Went down the top 200 WII U titles and counted about 10 games that rely heavily on gamepad support, most of the top 10 games don't. 

What's a better value to a customer?  The option to chose a $200 console and whatever games he/she wants or sold a packaged deal with a gamepad with games that he/she might not play or care for?  Look at MS with the Kinect option.   
-------------------------------------------
Reality is you can BUY an USED WII U with gamepad for $200 straight from Nintendo but most shoppers (95%) don't know that. 

========================

I snagged an used WII U for $130 that came with Super Smash Brothers WII U and a few VC titles.  Gamepad was a bit scratched up but my buddy is never going use the damn thing for the games that he wanted to play, SSB, MK8, Bayonetta 1 and 2, and SML3DWorld.  Managed to snag MK8 and SML3D for $30 new but nearly paid retail for Bayonetta ($45).  Overall with taxes I was around $225.

[NWR_insanolord]

Dropping the GamePad was never a practical option, and it's certainly not one now given how little potential there is for any meaningful turnaround and the fact that both major releases for the system this year use it in major ways. You never want to segment your market, and that would be the mother of all segmentations. It's not something Nintendo would ever want to do, and it's especially not worth it at this point in the system's life.

Nintendo isn't going to make any major moves to try to sell more Wii U systems, and that's because they've given up. They're riding the system out until they have a replacement ready, and releasing the stuff they already had in the works to not piss off their core fans who they need on board with that. This is the correct and rational response to the situation they're in right now, and honestly I'm fairly surprised they weren't stubborn enough to keep fighting a lost cause out of some misplaced sense of pride.

[Enner]

When the Wii U Pro Controller, Xbox One Controller, or PlayStation 4 Controller cost $50+ to maintain a certain level of quality and make a profit, I don't think it too much of a leap to imagine that the Wii U at $299 might be at cost or a slim profit.

I'm fairly certain that those controllers have huge markups. They can get away with that because they're somewhat of a necessity. Besides, Nintendo used to sell the Classic Controller for $20, and the main difference between that and the Wii U Pro is the battery. I can't imagine a battery costing an extra $30.

The Wii U is ancient technology at a premium price. If it's really that expensive to manufacture, something's gone screwy...

Radio chips are expensive. Thinking back, a Gamecube controller costed $29.99 while a Wavebird was $39.99. Then you have Wii Remotes at $39.99 and Xbox 360/PlayStation 3 controllers at $49.99.

I don't see the Wii U as "ancient technology at a premium price." I see the gap as something smaller. Then again, this could be a personal view of electronics as I'm mulling over a high-performance Netgear Nighthawk router (~$200) or a TP-Link router (<$100). And the Nighthawk I have in mind isn't even the highest tier available.

It's hard to go beyond the gut when we can only guess the cost-of-goods and have no clue as to how Nintendo's logistics, contracts, and research & development pan out. Maybe this is me being too enamored by the Wii U GamePad's streaming performance, but perhaps the effort spent by Nintendo and Broadcom in developing the hardware and software for the GamePad streaming wasn't a cheap thing for Nintendo. Perhaps the proprietary or low-volume stuff in the Wii U is whats keeping the costs up. Or maybe Nintendo didn't or couldn't cut a good deal with manufacturers. Lastly, Nintendo could have a bunch of old stock sitting around.

Of course, there's always the possibility a Wii U only costs Nintendo $150-170 to make and ship. So now they are daring to squeeze as much profit as they can this year.

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nintendo+Wii+U+Teardown/11796
If anyone wants something to help draw conclusions with, you can look at all the chips in this tear down.

[Spak-Spang]

Super Mario Maker as the launch game would have made Wii U sell.

[Spak-Spang]

I think If the rumors are true Nintendo needs to be pulling all unreleased software for NX 2016.  If NX is 2017, then Nintendo has some time, but I would go pretty crazy and have a launch number of games that just demands attention.  Even if the are just HD versions of classics.  Add something new into it.  Repackage it...along with some generally new games.  But as for the Wii U just stay where you are now and just ride this out.

[NWR_insanolord]

Super Mario Maker as the launch game would have made Wii U sell.

Mario Maker at launch instead of NSMBU and Splatoon at some point in 2013 and the system might have stood a chance. They figured things out too late.

[BranDonk Kong]

Perhaps just as telling though...

Number of 3rd party million sellers on Wii U - 0

Number of 3rd party million sellers on 3DS - 8

Maybe that doesn't mean anything actually. Just wanted to post.

[Evan_B]

Number of Nintendo 3DS million sellers - 25

Number that were 2D platformers - 3

Number of Nintendo Wii U games that are million sellers - 11

Number that were 2D platformers - 3

Yep Nintendo is making nothing but 2D platformers alright.

That is the most biased list I could possibly think of. It's like saying:

List of Nintendo Published Games for the Wii U: 47
Number of Games that contain 2D Platforming Elements: 19

Considering the imbalance of other genres, I'd say that's pretty upsetting.

[TOPHATANT123]

Hyrule Warriors is a 3rd party title that sold a million copies and was developed and published by Koei Tecmo at least in Japan, albeit with a borrowed IP. You could argue either way since 1st/3rd party is applied arbitrarily.

Don't know about you but I count 13 3rd party 3DS million sellers; Bravely Default, SF 4, Lego City, DQ 7, Yokai Watch 1, Yokai Watch 2, Yokai Watch 2-2, Yokai Watch Busters, Puzzle and Dragons, Monster Hunter 3U, Monster Hunter 4, Monster Hunter 4U, and Kingdom Hearts.

[BranDonk Kong]

Hyrule Warriors is a Nintendo-published game that is completely based on a Nintendo-owned IP. It's not a 3rd party game, in that case A Link to the Past on GameBoy Advance is a 3rd party game.

[TOPHATANT123]

Hyrule Warriors is published by Koei Tecmo (at least in Japan) and is a Koei Tecmo game. They do their own marketing and it is the reason you see a game like Legends at Tokyo Game Show, but a game like Genei Ibun Roku #FE is not since Nintendo is the publisher and they don't go to TGS, despite the game being developed by ATLUS who does go to TGS. If Hyrule Warriors is first party then by that same logic so is Professor Layton and Inazuma Eleven.

[Nile Boogie Returns]

OF course they wont. It wouldn't make a difference since the "idea of Wii U is dead"  not so much the system. Good software is still to be released and enjoyed. 3 years in to this Gen and Wii U can compete...software wise. At this point the 2.5million console gap between the Wii U and XboxOne wouldn't be closed by a price drop. IF Zelda was coming this Christmas... maybe a price drop would do something. Nintendo has no worthy enough holiday title to even consider a price cut or mega bundle.

[Luigi Dude]

That is the most biased list I could possibly think of. It's like saying:

List of Nintendo Published Games for the Wii U: 47
Number of Games that contain 2D Platforming Elements: 19

Considering the imbalance of other genres, I'd say that's pretty upsetting.

Where in the hell do you even get close to 19?  Are you seriously considering things like Smash Bros or the min game in Splatoon as the same as full fledged 2D platformers that just ridicules.

There's only been 6 actual 2D platformers on the Wii U and even that's kind of stretching it since New Super Luigi which everyone loves to count as one of those games was low budget DLC made in a few months.  Hell the majority of the 2D games Nintendo has released for the Wii U and 3DS are done by small teams on low budgets anyway.

Seriously, just say it, you're still butt hurt Retro made Tropical Freeze.  Retro is the only major studio that has the actual manpower to have created the type of games you say Nintendo should be creating like a Dark Souls ripoff or an open world game but made a 2D platformer instead.  Even the studio that makes the New Super Mario Bros games made Pikmin 3 and currently working on Pikmin 4 as well.  Everyone else like HAL, Good Feel, Arzest are too damn small to make huge open world cinematic experiences.  These studio's are best used to make 2D platformers since it fits their talents better and in the case of HAL and Good Feel, the employees actual love 2D gameplay and like making these games.

Of course we still don't even know what Retro's next game is so even complaints about Tropical Freeze are dumb at this point since it's been over 2.5 years.  Oh no, Retro made an amazing 2D game instead of the dream whatever Western game they could have made in my head.  Seriously, people, get the **** over it.

[Mop it up]

If Nintendo can't/won't lower the price, then the idea of including more games in the package is a good one. Digital games add nice value without having any meaningful impact on manufacturing. If they include SmUsh, Mario Kart VIII, and Mario Maker, that'd be a nice triple threat. Might as well toss in Nintendo Land too, it's nice to have around, but something that most people may not want to pay for.

Radio chips are expensive. Thinking back, a Gamecube controller costed $29.99 while a Wavebird was $39.99. Then you have Wii Remotes at $39.99 and Xbox 360/PlayStation 3 controllers at $49.99.

Again, controllers have huge markups. Not just this gen, but for a long time.

EDIT: Also, I'm fairly certain you're off about the GCN controller pricing, if you're talking USD. When the GameCube launched, its controllers were $34.99. The WaveBird also launched at $34.99, and then the corded ones dropped to $24.99 at that time, or maybe a little sooner.

That's a good point about the Wii U using proprietary parts, I hadn't thought about that. If the architecture is different from other systems/computers/devices, and its components are uncommon parts that newer devices doesn't use, it could actually be more expensive to manufacture older/weaker hardware. There's a tinge of irony to that, perhaps.

There are a lot of unknowns here though so I s'pose we can mostly speculate based on a few facts.

[pokepal148]

Zombi is already on the xbox/ps4/pc without a gamepad so YES, I'm pretty sure it's very EASY for ubisoft to patch the WII U version.  Fook that's a no brainer.

You realize that you're referring to the same company that delayed Rayman Legends for 9 months yet STILL requires you to use the Gamepad in the Wii U version right?

Ignoring that small detail you honestly expect every single third party (even EA) to dig up their Wii U devkits from whatever closet they were buried under to patch gamepad-free modes for all their games? Heck Square Enix probably lit them up with gasoline as soon as they realized the Wii U isn't a mobile platform.

Oh and that's ignoring the fact that some of these developers/publishers are DEAD (THQ, Junction Point,) and I highly doubt you have a Tardis handy.

[Ymeegod]

All EA games can be played with just the pro so they don't have to change anything, in fact most games can.  Some games with have missing features like in MK8 where you can play pro only but you'll be missing out of the mini-map.   

Rayman Legends would need a patch though, but the coding is already done so it's mostly copy&paste at that point. 
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[Ymeegod]

Here's an list of all prosupported games already:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_U_games_that_use_the_Wii_U_Pro_Controller

[Evan_B]

Where in the hell do you even get close to 19?  Are you seriously considering things like Smash Bros or the min game in Splatoon as the same as full fledged 2D platformers that just ridicules.

Ah, ah, ah. If you can't take the ridiculous statistics heat, you shouldn't have given a ridiculous statistic, yourself. Which, yes, was what my whole post was riffing on. Since your statistic was ridiculous.

There's only been 6 actual 2D platformers on the Wii U and even that's kind of stretching it since New Super Luigi which everyone loves to count as one of those games was low budget DLC made in a few months.  Hell the majority of the 2D games Nintendo has released for the Wii U and 3DS are done by small teams on low budgets anyway.

And that makes it okay for them to be 2D Platformers? Where's my eye roll emoticon?!

Seriously, just say it, you're still butt hurt Retro made Tropical Freeze.  Retro is the only major studio that has the actual manpower to have created the type of games you say Nintendo should be creating like a Dark Souls ripoff or an open world game but made a 2D platformer instead.  Even the studio that makes the New Super Mario Bros games made Pikmin 3 and currently working on Pikmin 4 as well.  Everyone else like HAL, Good Feel, Arzest are too damn small to make huge open world cinematic experiences.  These studio's are best used to make 2D platformers since it fits their talents better and in the case of HAL and Good Feel, the employees actual love 2D gameplay and like making these games.

I haven't made my thoughts on Tropical Freeze very public, but I will say that I absolutely love it and am in no way "butthurt" about it. However, of Retro has the manpower to make a larger game, then they should be working on something big instead of an iterative concept. Nintendo having a bunch of smaller studios under their belt who make the same things across consoles (I mean, if we got into all of the 2D platforming games on both 3DS and Wii U it would be an even sadder statistic) is precisely why they don't have an impressive software lineup for their system. It's also why I can barely recommend the Wii U as a good secondary system. What I am disappointed in is Nintendo's insistence on their safest IPs as fodder for half-baked design concepts. I get that they need to be reused a lot for brand recognition but they recycle mechanics and gameplay styles too quickly and it's getting old.

Oh, and the Wii U is overpriced, too. And Ymee, I think it all comes down to the fact that you're asking Nintendo to back down from the concept that tey marketed the console with- that's a fight you are not going to win. I own a PSTV and as nice as it is to have some of the Vita library to play on the big screen, it's infuriating that a number of games aren't compatible because of minor control aspects of a normal Vita

[Ymeegod]

For your PSTV blue's.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-how-to-exploit-playstation-tv-to-run-all-vita-titles

[Evan_B]

...huh.

Thanks man! I've been wanting to play Gravity Rush and Memories of Celcetta for so long!

[broodwars]

...huh.

Thanks man! I've been wanting to play Gravity Rush and Memories of Celcetta for so long!

Just don't update your Vita TV, because the latest update kills this exploit.