Topic: Should/will Nintendo follow PS4 price cut

[ClexYoshi]

As I said, 2 years ago, you know when they still had the lead and yes I would require Nintendo to put in some sort of "effort".   It's the totally opposite of what they did for the 3DS.  When the 3DS was failing, they went for an price cut and boom--sale spike.

Can't be done, please.  Games can be patched easy enough, most games wouldn't even need to.

Nixing the gamepad first and foremost throws all DS Virtual Console under the bus. Miiverse would be severely hampered by the lack of being able to draw or quickly keypad in posts at all... and then there's games that do use the gamepad in a very significant way, such as the art academy stuff, Kirby and the Rainbow Curse, Nintendoland, ZombiU (which Ubisoft sure as well aren't gonna put the time and money into patching), Splatoon (again, that's a game that loses a BIG part of it's gameplay with losing all the super jump and gyro aiming, which is REALLY good, by the way. the local multiplayer in that game is garbage because of the lack of gyro due to fairness.), and Super Mario maker would need heavy overhauls and would not be as fun as a result. some stuff like the Smash bros. stage editor and a few other things would just have to be gated off alltogether.

So, we're on a multitude of effort here and just ripping out a ton of infistructure... but you know what comes at even MORE of a cost? the lost of the Gamepad's NFC reader. now we're talking about either having to bundle an NFC reader in with the console, or losing what HAS been working for them sales wise, which is Amiibo. there's at least 3 or 4 games out there entirely anchored on Amiibo (Mario Party 10, which would also lose the Bowser Party mode that even makes the game woth a damn without a gamepad, Animal Crossing Amiibo Party, Let's Tap! Amiibo...).

this isn't even mentioning tossing out the window things like the quick-boot, the gamepad's ability to give you notifications on events, and just... so many little UI fixes that would have to go into the sort of massive overhaul in order to not split the userbase... and for what?

an underpowered Nintendo-box? The indie stuff is nice, but there's no longer off-TV play to promote you from getting it on a Nintendo console Vs. Steam or another console. It's still saddled with being shackled to all the Wii infastructure, needing the technology therein to pair with Wii remotes Via Bluetooth and have a have pointers. That, by the way, is the only way to play certain games STILL is with leftover bits and bobs from your Wii. Do they drop that too? do they alienate even more of the fanbase and put out a cheapy, chinsey product that is such a barren desert of a library that we're now competing with the Ouya? Wii U pro controllers aren't much differetn from the Ouya controller at this point, and poeple buy those things to shove Munpen64 onto and then have more N64 game access on it then the Wii U currently offers with their N64 virtual console offerings.


I admire the sheer balls on Nintendo for not bieng wishy-washy on the Gamepad. maybe the idea was half-baked ands they turned out to not have as great of ideas with it as one would hope... Unlike the Kinect, the gamepad isn't actively hurting the experiences that it's involved with.  I can't point to a game and go "this game sucks and it's the fault of the technology inside the gamepad" like I can with something like say... The Fighter Within.

[Shaymin]

If there's going to be any sort of price movement, I would expect it on or around the 28th of this month.

And any chance of removing the GamePad went out the window when Splatoon and Super Mario Maker sold like chocolate-covered crack (well, in Wii U terms).

[Enner]

"console has just as good a chance of being a hit no matter how the Wii U performs in the end."

Doubt it, how many gamers are going lineup for the next system?  The WII was the only exception during the what 30+ years of console history.  Atari, Sega, ect. 

If the PlayStation, PlayStation 2, PS3's 599 US dollars, and Xbox One's DRM are proof of anything, it's that marketing and audience perception can swing loyalties wildly.

Granted, a scenario that has such interest swing in Nintendo's favor would require a caliber and combination of products, services, and advertising that Nintendo yet to achieve in recent years. Something beyond my most hopeful dreams for the NX.

But hey! I want to believe, if only a little, that time is due for some happy surprises with regards to Nintendo hardware. Hopefully all the good mojo wasn't spent on the success of amiibo, Splatoon, and Super Mario Maker.

[Caterkiller]

RAISE the price of the Wii U.

HahahahahahahHahJJjajJjhahaha! Why is ShyGuy the only one thinking outside the box?!

I can't remember a time where one of Shyguys posts didn't make me laugh. I was actually laughing out loud, hard too!

[lolmonade]

Will they?  I sincerely doubt it.

Should they?  The obvious answer for someone whose waiting for a price cut to buy one is an obvious "yes!".  But for Nintendo themselves?  I'm guessing nothing's putting them over the threshold to justify a price drop. 

I know comparing to the other consoles is the easy way to suggest it needs to be done, but Nintendo as a company can't make decisions based solely on what their competition is doing.  $50 isn't a small amount of money, and they have to assume that if they lose that extra cash flow per unit, that the overall sales will increase to a degree where it'll not only offset the cost of losing that extra $50/system, but will result in a net sales $ increase. 

This coupled with the anemic release schedule that we know of, and I'd be more inclined to guess they'll hold onto this price until sometime 6 months before NX's release to try & move aging stock off their inventory.

[lolmonade]

So, we're on a multitude of effort here and just ripping out a ton of infistructure... but you know what comes at even MORE of a cost? the lost of the Gamepad's NFC reader. now we're talking about either having to bundle an NFC reader in with the console, or losing what HAS been working for them sales wise, which is Amiibo. there's at least 3 or 4 games out there entirely anchored on Amiibo (Mario Party 10, which would also lose the Bowser Party mode that even makes the game woth a damn without a gamepad, Animal Crossing Amiibo Party, Let's Tap! Amiibo...).

This is the most accurate statement of why Nintendo will never remove the gamepad from Wii U.

[Ymeegod]

A few facts:

Zombi is already on the xbox/ps4/pc without a gamepad so YES, I'm pretty sure it's very EASY for ubisoft to patch the WII U version.  Fook that's a no brainer.

Splatoon's superjump can only be easy be mapped to a button since there's only FOUR possibilities (you're three-squad mates locations or home). 



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As for Enner's post.

Sony didn't stick with the $600 price tag for long.  Dropped to $300 within a year.  Sony made the adjustments as soon as it saw sales drop.  Hell they even took a $100+ per console hit just to increase it's userbase.  Nintendo continues to sell the WII U at A PROFIT nearly two years later? It was profitable at 2nd quarter of 2013.  Sony made the choice to save the PS3, which for the most part it did (80 million units); vs Nintendo who hasn't done much to turn around the WII U. 



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As for Amiibo, you do realize most people are buying these damn things just to collect them right?  I guess if you really needed to play them, Nintendo could release their own "portal" device which still way cheaper than an overpriced gamepad?  $100 gamepad vs, $4 NFC reader. 

[Spak-Spang]

I think there are several people that would buy a Wii U for the game library it has for 199.99.  But the question is can Nintendo afford that price for the hardware?  See giving away free games in package deals allows for a higher value to the consumer and allows the hardware to still sell at a profit.  I think a two game pack in at the retail price of 299.99 is fair.  But Nintendo Land can't be one of those games.  It is old and people don't see it as a full retail game.  Personally, I would go with a pack in game and a free digital code for any ONE Nintendo published game in the eshop.  This would help Nintendo find which games people find valuable and will buy.  Even if people use it get a game like Smash or Mario Kart, Nintendo could make more money of the DLC purchases...in fact...that sounds like a PERFECT packin.  Wii U Smash and Mario Kart Bundle.  You get 2 of the highest rated games.  You have Splatoon and Mario as games people may want to buy with the system, and the games that come with the system had DLC that gamers will probably spend money on helping Nintendo get more funds. 

Nintendo that is what you should do.

[Spak-Spang]

Gamepad is a must for the Wii U...it does differentiate the system.

1) DS V.C.
2) Many games do use the second screen.
3) Super Mario Maker basically requires it.
4) Splatoon makes great use of it.
5) Developers that are willing to make games for Wii U are making games with the understanding the Gamepad is the controller going back on that is the worst thing Nintendo can do.
6) Price cuts into lost profits per units sold is definitely not the answer. 

Giving consumers extra value is what is important.  If you have games you know people are wanting to play on your system, you give those games as the pack in.  Tell the consumer it is OK to buy a Wii U, we will give you the games you want to play most.  Smash and Kart is a $100.00 value.  And then people can instantly play what they want and buy DLC for it...  $12.00 for the Mario Kart DLC and over $28.00 for Smash Bros to be earned.  Plus both of those games have local play for additional controller purchases. 

[Ymeegod]

1.  Is losing DS support really that big of a deal since you can play them on multiple systems as it is?  You can find DS systems for $20 locally or you can get an 3DS for under an $100. 

2.  LOL?  Many games?  Most, I do mean the majority, like 80%, barely use the WII U as a secondary map at best and I played just about all the major hits so far (minus Yoshi's Yarn and Xenoblade X since they aren't released yet). 

3.  SMM, as I already stated, sure it makes it easier to make levels with but you can still do the same same thing with a controller as I pointed out Sony's Creation games like Little Big Planet. 

5.  What developers?  3rd party developers have all but fled the wii u so unless you know something I don't?

6.  Why not?  It's worked in the past, Sony's a good example both the PS1 or ps3; also nintendo's 3DS, so why couldn't the same be for the WII U?  Higher user base = higher software sales = same revenue at the end. 

[ClexYoshi]

Ymmeegod, we also have squid beacons to consider, not to mention the real time updating map, which I think would do a great disservice if you had that cluttering the screen and adding those extra button presses to defensive super jumps.

I know that ubisoft ported ZombiU about, but they STILL have no reason to patch the game considering it's age and how abysmal their products go on Wii U. the trifle of money that it'd cost to make this happen probably doesn't justify the means, because I got news; the people who'd buy a gamepad-less Wii U are not the same people who are going to be going out and buying a Wii U to play the game when they likely have other hardware that can play it.

Also, I'm pretty confident that Nintendo is trying to sell the toys with the NFC chips in them to also sell hardware and software along side them. the idea for Amiibo was to tie it back into their video games line, and so they will continue to want to support the NFC reader, which again, with the FREQUENCY of use with the titles I mentioned (amiibo must be scanned on EVERY turn of a game of amiibo party or animal crossing:Amiibo festival), you would not want this thing wired, and it'd be nice if it was also tied in with the controller that you're going to have to use to control the game.


For better or for worse, the Gamepad and the Wii U are inextricably linked. When you can answer for me why people should buy a... let's say $200 (Because let's face it; if they're packing in Pro controllers, those things are $40 a pop. they also aren't going to sell the console cheaper than the handheld.) underpowered system with barely enough internal storage for 2 digital retail games, a pathetic third party showing, and pool of first party stuff that just literally iterates on first and second party offerings they passed up on on the cheapy Wii, then you can tell me that a complete 180 is what Nintendo needs.


Quite franky, I don't even know what they need. The avenues I would have suggested have been tried and are dying a slow and horrible death out on the market just as the Wii U is.

[Ymeegod]

"Ymmeegod, we also have squid beacons to consider"

You can only place 3 of them.  There's SEVEN unused buttons (9 if you count the analog ones) in Splatoon.  As for "cluttering the screen" you can pop up a map or use a mini map.  Either way you have to glance away from one screen to use the Gamepad which is about the same amount of time it takes to toggle a map on or off the main screen. 

And you really missed the point about an NFC costing only a few dollars to make right? 

[ClexYoshi]

"Ymmeegod, we also have squid beacons to consider"

You can only place 3 of them.  There's SEVEN unused buttons (9 if you count the analog ones) in Splatoon.  As for "cluttering the screen" you can pop up a map or use a mini map.  Either way you have to glance away from one screen to use the Gamepad which is about the same amount of time it takes to toggle a map on or off the main screen. 

And you really missed the point about an NFC costing only a few dollars to make right?

yeah, but... it's a conveninece matter. do they put an NFC reader in the future Wii U Pro controllers? they certainly wouldn't teather the thing to the console via USB, so... bluetooth? that's gotta jack up the price of making an NFC reader a little bit...?

[lolmonade]

I think there are several people that would buy a Wii U for the game library it has for 199.99.  But the question is can Nintendo afford that price for the hardware?  See giving away free games in package deals allows for a higher value to the consumer and allows the hardware to still sell at a profit.  I think a two game pack in at the retail price of 299.99 is fair.  But Nintendo Land can't be one of those games.  It is old and people don't see it as a full retail game.  Personally, I would go with a pack in game and a free digital code for any ONE Nintendo published game in the eshop.  This would help Nintendo find which games people find valuable and will buy.  Even if people use it get a game like Smash or Mario Kart, Nintendo could make more money of the DLC purchases...in fact...that sounds like a PERFECT packin.  Wii U Smash and Mario Kart Bundle.  You get 2 of the highest rated games.  You have Splatoon and Mario as games people may want to buy with the system, and the games that come with the system had DLC that gamers will probably spend money on helping Nintendo get more funds. 

Nintendo that is what you should do.

This is most likely the closest thing to a price cut people will get.  Bundle with digital copies of Nintendo games.  It costs Nintendo a lot less to entice people to buy this way than with a price cut, and they can advertise it as a value of the consumer saving the equivalent of a price cut.

[lolmonade]

Ymeegod, you're speaking from the standpoint of the consumer, which is fine.  But as someone who works in a business that produces & sells consumer products, your statements are gross oversimplifications of not only how easy it'd be for a company like Nintendo to make these changes, but also how it would affect the usability of the Wii U in general and how they're perceived by consumers who DO like & use those features.

[Ian Sane]

Getting rid of the Gamepad makes no sense so soon after releasing Super Mario Maker, which is probably the best implementation of the Gamepad to date.

Nintendo should cut the price because the Wii U is not very enticing as a primary console because it has practically no third party support at all.  All it has going for it are Nintendo's own games.  People are okay with buying a Nintendo-only machine as a second console and that was actually part of the Wii's success.  But this current price point is too high for that.  Nintendo has to suck it up and admit the Wii U is what it is.  For a discounted price it is worth it as a companion to the other consoles.  At $300 it is too expensive for that role and it has too thin of a lineup to work as the main console for anyone but a devoted Nintendo nut - and they've already bought the damn thing.  The Wii U isn't going to make a comeback but they've got some great games that I think would be enticing at a lower entry price.

[Evan_B]

Someone is overly aggressive.

Consider Hex Heroes, an RTS where the Gamepad player has an overview of the world while four people play on the TV. That game was Kickstarted for Wii U and PC because the developers thought the Gampead was the only way to make the concept work.

Sure, someone COULD map the extend blocks from 3D World to a Wii remote. Sure, they could make the Gunship or the Arrow shots work with a Wii U remote. And yes, maybe if you wanted to jump to someone's Swuid Beacon without having a precise idea of its location, you could map those things to button presses. But to patch a vast amount of Wii U games that do have Gamepad controls would be an absurd notion, especially at this point in the console's life. Hell, it would have changed a majority of the Wii U library and we might not have the games we see on the system now. But to back away from that idea would show a weakness of potential, and that's not Nintendo's thing. It took them the entirety of the Wii's lifespan to make Skyward Sword (when other games did it sooner and arguably better), but they stuck through with the idea.

And do you collect Amiibo, Ymee? Because as someone who went from begrudgingly enjoying them to liking them a lot because of their technical use and compatibility with more and more games, and the fact that Nintendo is making some exclusively for certain franchises and even for certain games, I think there's a good amount of people who like actually being able to use them in a game.

[lolmonade]

The Wii U isn't going to make a comeback but they've got some great games that I think would be enticing at a lower entry price.

I'd wager this is exactly the reason why we won't get a price cut until end-of-life.  This isn't going to influence sales in a meaningful way, why cut into their own profits then?

[Ymeegod]

Don't own an Amiibo at this point, Yarn Yoshi will be the my first but I do follow what they "unlock".  So far they only things that I'm missing are a few weapons in Spaltoon and Hyrule Warriors but the cosmetic stuff I don't bother with anyhow.  Besides missing out of Party mode in Mario Party X, which really didn't matter to me since there's no online play anyhow.  Not a fan of disc-locked content.
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You're really not cutting into profits when you factor in the increase in software revenue.  Considering that most software that's sold on the WIIU is mostly published by Nintendo themselves, it would only have to sell 4 titles/console to remake an $100 loss.  The WII U attached ratio's at 6/console so having more units out the door would actually net you about $50 more revenue /unit that you didn't have before.

[ThePerm]

Either lower the price or increase the amount of pack ins. That increases the value of the system without creating a real loss.

When Sega Saturn was failing Sega added a three game pack ins. It was daytona usa, virtua fighter, and virtua cop.

If Nintendo included Splatoon, Mario Kart 8, and Super Mario Maker well then sales would jump insane.

300 - $180 = $120

Hell they could sell it for $249.99 and add a 4th game. or a 5th game(nintendo land)

https://www.nintendo.com/wiiu/buynow/
They are already packing these games in.

$350- $240 = $110

[lolmonade]

You're really not cutting into profits when you factor in the increase in software revenue.  Considering that most software that's sold on the WIIU is mostly published by Nintendo themselves, it would only have to sell 4 titles/console to remake an $100 loss.  The WII U attached ratio's at 6/console so having more units out the door would actually net you about $50 more revenue /unit that you didn't have before.

I'll take your number above as fact for the time being - The Wii U's attach rate is currently 6 games per console, and let's assume they need a minimum of 4 new games sold to recoup their losses/eke a small gain.

Can we also agree Nintendo's current install base is mostly people who are enthusiastic about or are at least inclined to purchase several video games for a system?  I'd additionally argue that while yes, the goal is to get a larger install base to push future software sales, racing to the bottom in cost also means getting eventually to the consumer buying the system for a select few games they want to play, then being done with it more or less.  This means as more casual/non-Nintendo obsessed fans start buying this system, their assumed low attach rate that'll be closer to 1-3 games for their console will bring down that average.

Yes, those people exist.  In fact, those people are the ones who buy things like video game consoles when they're low enough to be an impulse buy, play their one 2D Mario & Mariokart game, then are content with what they have out of it.

[Ian Sane]

The Wii U isn't going to make a comeback but they've got some great games that I think would be enticing at a lower entry price.

I'd wager this is exactly the reason why we won't get a price cut until end-of-life.  This isn't going to influence sales in a meaningful way, why cut into their own profits then?

I was thinking "comeback" more in the sense of the Wii U suddenly becoming a very successful product that competes toe-to-toe with the competition.  That is never happening.  But I think a price cut would help them maximize the sales potential the Wii U does have.  More Wii U's sold also increases the potential sales for all of the first party games.

In regards to cutting the Gamepad, as someone who works in software development, the idea of patching the existing games to work without them really sounds nutty this far in.  Nintendo has to pay someone's salary for them to update their games to work without the Gamepad.  Not just "someone" but multiple developers, likely from multiple teams since different teams worked on different games and an outsider working with the code would be more inefficient.  And they have to test this stuff as well and that's more paid salary time.  Are Wii U sales going to improve enough to make up the costs of that?  Getting your employees to spend time doing something is usually the most expensive cost for a company.

And what about third party games?  I know there aren't many but third parties would have to either have their game become incompatible with newer model Wii U's or they have to spend the development costs to patch it.  They're already pretty peeved at Nintendo over the Wii U's poor performance and Nintendo needs them for the successor.  How would they react to Nintendo plopping that in their laps?

[Evan_B]

Let's face it, Nintendo may have stepped up their game with Splatoon, but the only way the Wii U will ever stand toe-to-toe with its competitors is if Nintendo went for the obvious current cash cows, the super hard dungeon crawler or the open-world, open-ended action adventure, which they're only getting with XCX and Zelda. And those are coming at the end of the console's life cycle.

[Ian Sane]

Let's face it, Nintendo may have stepped up their game with Splatoon, but the onl way the Wii U will ever stand toe-to-toe with its competitors is if Nintendo went for the obvious current cash cows, the super hard dungeon crawler or the open-world, open-ended action adventure, which they're only getting with XCX and Zelda. And those are comin at the end of thei console's life cycle.

The only way it could stand toe-to-toe would be if Nintendo somehow released a new Wii U game that is such a must-own killer app that it completely negates all of the Wii U's shortcomings in the minds of consumers.

[Evan_B]

Oh, right. Yes, that is true as of right now. But the truth is, Nintendo is made up of a bunch of developers get like to make iterative 2D platformers more than anything else, which is likely the reason no one finds them relevant.

What would that game be for you, Ian? Just out of curiosity.