Topic: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said

[smallsharkbigbite]

I think the successor to current consoles is a Nintendo tablet. I think they are embracing that model. I think the 2DS was a first run tablet replacement for the 3ds. I think they'll drop the divider (one screen) and try to minimize size on future versions. They could either drop the L & R buttons or go Genesis 6 button style. If they make a tablet I fully expect them to embrace annual hardware.

People are telling them to make tablet games, and i think they will.  It will just be on their hardware instead of on apple hardware. I think they see competing in the tablet market (where margins on hardware are high) as favorable to competing in the console industry. They think they will find a niche by releasing cheaper tablets than Apple with better core video game controls and releasing an extensive amount of backcatalog games on the tablet.

I don't want that and I could be 100% wrong, but I think they adore the Apple model and feel they are niche in video games.

@Adrock I know you grabbed my quote and not Miyamoto's , I just want to be clear that I don't believe they have enough 1st party games, that's just my interpretation of their comments.

[Oblivion]

The 2DS is not a tablet replacement. It's a cheaper 3DS without the 3D made for children. The slate design is so it doesn't have the hinge problems.

[smallsharkbigbite]

I know its not a tablet replacement. But the form factor is trending into tablet territory. I think their next iteration will basically be a lower spec iPad with lower resolution with dpad and buttons on the sides. To me that's not a huge jump from the 2ds which utilizes one screen (divided by plastic). 

And I admitted I could be wrong. I'm just not encouraged by where Nintendo feels their failures are. I definately get the feeling they all think they are smarter than everybody and that makes them above listening to consumer criticism. The power question - their response, power isn't relative next question. The first party question - we adequately supplied enough titles. Whats the core of your business - getting people that don't play games to buy Nintendo hardware. Why wasnt Nintendoland =Wii Sports, multiplayer was equal but single player lacking. That's why it failed to generate the Wii Sports type interest. Whats your biggest failure as a company - e xplaing our product to our consumers.

[BlackNMild2k1]

1. There will be more powerful hardware. Maybe not pushing the limits of technology over profitability, but more powerful is a given.

2. No comment on mergers and acquisitions. There are acquisitions that make sense and Nintendo will review them as they arise. Unfortunately, they weren't aggressive enough on recent opportunities to acquire some additional talent covering Nintendo weak spots.

3. More hardware options increases the likelyhood of a hybrid, not lessens it, and there is no way they are doing a yearly hardware upgrade. Apple sells 10 million iPhones a year @ $500-$700 each, subsidized, that is how the hardware is profitable. Nintendo will likely release a powerful enough console, and a portable handheld. After time and sales slow, they may release a budget console, and maybe they release a hybrid to satisfy a slightly different market, or maybe the budget console and the portable together equal the hybrid, and all of this is sustainable because they all run on NOS.

4. I think QoL could be very lucrative, and I can only assume Nintendo knows exactly what they plan on doing, I just hope it's something we all are equally excited about and willing and eager to use.

[Ian Sane]

Nintendo's priority next time around should be to design something that third parties want to use.  Something that is familiar to them and easy for them to use.  Instead Iwata is talking about what's easy for NINTENDO to use.  That Nintendo-centric approach is why they have jack **** for third party support.  They've been going off this same framework since the Gamecube and carried it over to the Wii and Wii U.  That was beneficial for Nintendo's internal development but has been poison for third party support.  And now they're going to continue that approach for next time?  You're failing miserably and everyone with a brain predicted this the second the Wii U was revealed and you decide "hey, I'm going to keep doing the same thing"?  So what's next?  Release a PS4 equivalent in 2020 that builds onto that Cube/Wii/Wii U architecture that Nintendo and effectively no one else will be familiar with at that point?  Make sure to throw a goofy ass controller on it while you're at it and launch it with a 2D Mario game!

It sounds like Iwata's solution is to just do the same exact stuff that has put them in this mess in the first place.  Nintendo is dead on consoles.  If there is a Wii U successor it will fail if Iwata is still calling the shots because he has no idea why the Wii U is failing.  The guy is a dumbass that got lucky with a fad.

[Adrock]

They've been going off this same framework since the [NES] and carried it over to [every single piece of hardware they've ever released].

Fixed that for you.

Unless you have evidence for your outlandish claims, please kindly stop spreading lies. Take care now, bye bye then.

[BlackNMild2k1]

We don't know how Nintendo is handling their next console. For all we know they could be on the 3rd party campaign trail as we speak without worry because Sony & MS have just released their systems and it's too late for them to "steal" the new Nintendo "innovation".

I think the only thing kinda known at the moment, through *internet insiders*, is that Nintendo has already chosen its chip manufacturer. No need to jump to conclusions yet.

[Ian Sane]

They've been going off this same framework since the [NES] and carried it over to [every single piece of hardware they've ever released].

Fixed that for you.

Unless you have evidence for your outlandish claims, please kindly stop spreading lies. Take care now, bye bye then.

The Cube/Wii/Wii U share a common architecture.  This is fact.  That's how backwards compatibility has been achieved.

[Adrock]

Oh, you're talking about hardware architechure again, not Nintendo's longstanding philosophical framework of designing hardware for their own purposes first and foremost. Given that we really don't know what Nintendo is doing hardware-wise beyond a few vague comments, the latter seemed more pertinent. Seriously, like BlackNMild said, no need to jump to conclusions.

[shingi_70]

So the question is what advances in hardware and archtexture and os in the WiiU are great and should be absorbed?

The stuff I'd keep from the Wii U are the stuff that comes with being a service instead of a Insualr Platform.

NNID
Miiverse
Wii Fit Pad and Meter (Wii Fit should be turned into a service as well as a hardware platform.)
Virtual Console

Now the Wii U architecture needs to be scrapped for X86. Microsoft and Sony understood that getting rid of  backwards compatibility in sake of better hardware and using service like Now and rio to simulate BC. Nintendo is going to lose a lot for their next platform when neither Wii U or Wii Games are BC.

[ShyGuy]

Let's be honest. Sony and Microsoft have stopped pushing their console hardware to be the cutting edge now as well.

[BranDonk Kong]

*Emulate, not simulate*

Game consoles haven't been cutting edge in a long time. The PS3 was only because of Blu-ray, the last cutting edge system before that was probably the PS2, but the Xbox basically ended all of that.

[smallsharkbigbite]

1. There will be more powerful hardware. Maybe not pushing the limits of technology over profitability, but more powerful is a given.

Obviously I'm talking comparatively. We may get PS4 power in 10 years if Nintendo hasn't moved from video games at that time.

3. More hardware options increases the likelyhood of a hybrid, not lessens it, and there is no way they are doing a yearly hardware upgrade. Apple sells 10 million iPhones a year @ $500-$700 each, subsidized, that is how the hardware is profitable. Nintendo will likely release a powerful enough console, and a portable handheld. After time and sales slow, they may release a budget console, and maybe they release a hybrid to satisfy a slightly different market, or maybe the budget console and the portable together equal the hybrid, and all of this is sustainable because they all run on NOS.

Have you ever seen an iphone?  IPhones sell between 100 and 200 subsidized. And I was referring mainly to the tablet. Apple has sold > 100 million iPad at 500 .  It is rumored they have a margin of at least40% while Microsoft/Sony run negative console margins. I think Nintendo would like to be categorized as a tablet from a hardware margin perspective. Plus most people use the analogy of a tablet becoming more like a console as a reason to move toward the hybrid model.

I look at it this way.
Scenario A. My friend says I bought this awesome 300 dollar handheld video game player. My first thought is I hope it was made of solid gold because that's a lot of money to pay for a handheld.

Scenario b. My friend tells me he bought an awesome tablet for 300. My first thought is tell me more about it. I've been looking st buying an ipad and 300 is <500.

I don't want that per se I just don't think Nintendo is going to do what I want as a consumer.

[Stratos]

I had a conversation about that with a co-worker last week. His kid was asking for a 3DS for her birthday and he was thinking they were very expensive and compared it to tablets for both purpose (entertainment) and pricing. In many people's minds handhelds are just kiddie tablets/phones but the cost-benefit ratio seems off in their eyes.

[Shaymin]

3. More hardware options increases the likelyhood of a hybrid, not lessens it, and there is no way they are doing a yearly hardware upgrade. Apple sells 10 million iPhones a year @ $500-$700 each, subsidized, that is how the hardware is profitable.

10 million in a year? Try 51 million in three months. And 26 million iPads, which although priced similarly if bought outright, usually aren't subsidized. Source.

I had a conversation about that with a co-worker last week. His kid was asking for a 3DS for her birthday and he was thinking they were very expensive and compared it to tablets for both purpose (entertainment) and pricing. In many people's minds handhelds are just kiddie tablets/phones but the cost-benefit ratio seems off in their eyes.

Probably because although the hardware is $130/$170/$200, a large portion of the software you would want for it is $40.

[Stratos]

Yes, that was another point he made. I did agree that those prices were hard to swallow but most of the games are much more expansive and entertaining than a 99 cent app ever would be. And you just buy older games at $20-30.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I wasn't saying that Nintendo couldn't move into some more tablet like, as that could certainly be one of their future expanded hardware options. But they certainly wouldn't do the yearly hardware upgrade, because that is a constant moving target. they could refresh every 3 years without worry, but I highly doubt a yearly refresh of the hardware, outside of superficial stuff like color, and battery and type of screen, size maybe, but not anything like different CPU/GPU & new firmware with additional major features and more RAM to run it.

I would expect them to stay on a cycle like with the 3/DS.
sell one thing for as long as it sells well, then put a refresh on the market to reinvigorate sales in 2-3 years, but not every year.

[RedBlue]

  over reaction on my part

[Adrock]

They've been going off this same framework since the [NES] and carried it over to [every single piece of hardware they've ever released].

Fixed that for you.

Unless you have evidence for your outlandish claims, please kindly stop spreading lies. Take care now, bye bye then.

Before you call someone a lier make sure you comprehend what was written. Fucking off now, bye bye then.

It's spelled "liar." You are welcome!

[RedBlue]

They've been going off this same framework since the [NES] and carried it over to [every single piece of hardware they've ever released].

Fixed that for you.

Unless you have evidence for your outlandish claims, please kindly stop spreading lies. Take care now, bye bye then.

Before you call someone a lier make sure you comprehend what was written. Fucking off now, bye bye then.

It's spelled "liar." You are welcome!

Sorry my bad. I thought you quoted me, I said the same thing in the previous page.

Any way back on the subject. I think what Iwata was getting when he said he wanted to be like iOS and Android is that in those two ecosystems developers can target all devices with minor UI changes do to all devices having similar hardware and OS (the more important part of this are the APIs) . That being said I think they way Nintendo will try to get developers on board (independent) will the promise of your game will work on our home console and handheld with minimal work on your part.

[BlackNMild2k1]

 Nintendo should run it by them before they commit and see if any good tweaks to the idea are suggested, rather than after its complete and no changes are to be made.
The main issue with 3rd parties, as stated by 3rd parties, is that Nintendo doesn't communicate with them like partners in this business, but more like they should be privileged for the opportunity to allow their software to exist on Nintendo's hardware.

[Adrock]

Exactly.

Nintendo's approach on that end is, quite frankly, total bullshit. I don't think third parties specifically want to support Nintendo (or Sony/Microsoft). Rather, they want their games on as many viable platforms, open to a wider audience; Nintendo's terms are just exceptionally insulting.

Improve the communication part and support is guaranteed to improve as well. Whatever Nintendo chooses to do with hardware and architecture and whatnot is ultimately workable for third parties so long as Nintendo gives them adequate notice. Still, if Nintendo were to actually bounce ideas off of third parties, among the many different suggestions, there's bound to be a few specific prevailing concerns. The point is to catch those early and make sure they're not issues.

[NWR_insanolord]

Nintendo is (or at least has been recently) the hardest platform holder to accommodate, as well as the least lucrative in terms of sales. They need to change at least one of those things.

[Ian Sane]

Nintendo is (or at least has been recently) the hardest platform holder to accommodate, as well as the least lucrative in terms of sales. They need to change at least one of those things.

Now how delusional can a company be to think for even a second that this would fly?  "So I'll put you with your bullshit to make LESS money?"  They're lucky that ANYONE supports them and it should surprise no one that third parties were almost looking for the first excuse to dump the Wii U.  It's like the approach is to dump Nintendo ASAP but in a way that won't burn bridges with them in case they bounce back.  So they can say "sorry Nintendo we released [the doomed-to-fail] Mass Effect 3 and it didn't sell [because we killed any sales potential it had by releasing the trilogy on the other consoles] so we can't support the Wii U anymore." and Nintendo can't say that they didn't support the console because they technically did.

Nintendo has to be just jam packed full of yes-men for things to have happened the way they have.

[Ceric]

I don't think its Yes-Men as much as Forest from the Trees.