Author Topic: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said  (Read 90732 times)

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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Don't forget that AMD just announced it's first ARM chip
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7724/it-begins-amd-announces-its-first-arm-based-server-soc-64bit8core-opteron-a1100

It's for a server, but that doesn't mean it's the only one they are working on. It's also based off of the Cortex A7's.

And IBM jkust late last year announced that they licensed a bunch of ARM based designs, more specifcally, Cortex Processors....
http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/42296.wss

We also know that IBM has worked with AMD/ATi on previous Nintendo hardware (GC, Wii & Wii U)

and GAF says that insiders have said that Nintendo has already secured it's chip manufacturer.

so I wouldn't be surprised if they were going with a IBM/AMD system again, possibly based on an ARM SoC backed by a ATi GPGPU, but I know nothing about that stuff, so that is mostly a blind speculation.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 02:48:43 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline ShyGuy

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This is starting to get interesting. This hybrid-brother-third-pillar kind of situation makes me think we will see a new hand held in 2015 to start this off.  I can see a big handheld, a little hand held and a TV box version.

3DS will be five years old, perfect time to start something that is easy transition a lot of the Wii U eshop titles to bulk up the catalog.

Offline Oblivion

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It'll be four years old, not five.

Offline Ceric

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Honestly with this new context getting DS games working on the WiiU makes a whole lot more sense.  DS is a hop, skip, and a Jump away from 3DS.  DS is Proof of concept for BC for the NextDS.  Which the tea leaves are looking like will have compatibly with the WiiU at the digital game level.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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It'll be four years old, not five.

by end of 2015, it will be months away from 5 years old.
3DS was released March 2011


Honestly with this new context getting DS games working on the WiiU makes a whole lot more sense.  DS is a hop, skip, and a Jump away from 3DS.  DS is Proof of concept for BC for the NextDS.  Which the tea leaves are looking like will have compatibly with the WiiU at the digital game level.


Yes, it sounds like all efforts made on Wii U will not be lost and rebooted with the next hardware, which is why this is such exciting news. for the first time, Nintendo will actually be able to continually move forward instead of trying to recreate the same things in different ways for new hardware.
Once they solve the VC emulation with Miiverse and OffTV play, it's solved for good, time to move onto adding extra features like online scoreboards and simultaneous videochat.
Once they bring over the 3/DS emulator, digital software carryover will follow from hardware to hardware as it's tied to accounts and not systems.

Bring on the:
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 03:05:43 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline Oblivion

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I know this, BnM. I was one of the poor saps that bought one at launch. But ShyGuy didn't say the end of 2015, but 2015 in general.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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I'm assuming he meant a traditional holiday launch, as that was when I've been proposing the launch of the successor handheld(hybrid?) myself.

3DS has done well, but at nearly 5 years in, Nintendo needs to push and cement that NewNintendo directive and 3DS is the weak link in that roadmap. They should have all their ducks in a row and be ready to kick off new hardware with this new ecosystem in place, all systems and features ready at launch. 3DS BC from the start means smooth transition for whatever comes next.

Offline ShyGuy

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Sorry, yeah I meant a traditional holiday launch.

I think this means we will see digital download titles move from generation to generation. Virtual Machine should have been cumulative, and e-shop too as much as possible. I wish Wii e-shop titles like Lost Winds, World of Goo and Strong Bad had been available in the Wii U e-shop for an upgrade price.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Sorry, yeah I meant a traditional holiday launch.

I think this means we will see digital download titles move from generation to generation. Virtual Machine should have been cumulative, and e-shop too as much as possible. I wish Wii e-shop titles like Lost Winds, World of Goo and Strong Bad had been available in the Wii U e-shop for an upgrade price.

I wouldn't be surprised (actually I would be very surprised) if all of this is in Nintendo's plan for the next next BIG update, not the summer one, but the one to be announced at E3 as coming by Xmas 2014 or something.
-Universal accounts = 1 NNID, 1 Wallet, 1 eShop, 1 VC, 1 Nintendo Experience
-Wii becomes a channel within the Wii U, not a separate boot sector (GamePad compatible now)
-VC rom dump with upgraded universal emulator with new features built in
-WiiWare and 3/DS/i software on the eShop (also playable on the Wii U)

Offline Ian Sane

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This desire to absorb the Wii U architecture just seems so idiotic when no one but Nintendo uses it.  You have big problems with third party support and have for almost 20 years.  So you build off this architecture that you and you alone are familiar with?  That sort of approach where the hardware is designed solely for Nintendo's purposes is the whole goddamn reason the Wii U is an embarrassing flop.  That approach destroys third party support and you need third party support to get anywhere.  The only time Nintendo got by without it was because of a once-in-a-lifetime fad.

If that's their line of thinking, that the shitty irrelevant future-trivia-question-about-videogame-history-and-nothing-more failure that is the Wii U needs to preserved in the future in some way, then it's over.  The Wii U successor is already a failure.  If they had any idea what the hell they were doing they would avoid any and all similarities to the Wii U.  The Wii U is a ****-up and every decision Nintendo made regarding it was wrong so NOTHING to do with should be preserved.  Those that fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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If Nintendo started from scratch all over again, then it wouldn't matter what they do now to fix the Wii U, because it would be for nothing as it can't be carried over to a new system.

The approach of Nintendo "absorbing the Wii U architecture" (and I'm just reiterating what I've already said before) allows them to continually move forward, as any advancements made today on the Wii U, will carry on through whatever hardware comes tomorrow.

Not really sure how you skipped past all the replies and the rest of the article to immediately focus on 1 sentence out of context.
the entire statement in context was
Quote
while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.

So they will not necessarily be stuffing a Wii U into the next system, but they will build something that is in a way based on it, and takes advantage of the underlying foundation of the Wii U architecture to create something better that is scale-able between the handheld and console formats.
There is nothing but positive news in that article.

Offline ShyGuy

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Good heavens,  this is what they said:  "It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately."

I believe they are referring more to the software architecture rather than the CPU family.

The Wii Successor is already a failure? There is no Wii U successor. It's like me stating that your children are already failures. Sheesh.


edit: beaten by BnM.

Offline Ceric

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AS400 has a really cool system where all their code is compiled into an intermediately language much like Java and .Net but at a much lower level.  It means that all they need to do to change the chip is to make sure that the translation layer which is very close to the hardware works.  Nintendo could do much the same.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Nintendo should just use Java as the base platform like Android, then everyone is an instant developer.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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So the question is what advances in hardware and archtexture and os in the WiiU are great and should be absorbed?

Offline Ceric

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Except Java is a horrible language for the type of tuning you need for games.  .Net is better but, its still a problem.  Also Oracle hasn't been a great steward for Java.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Miiverse. NNID, which can grow. Wiimote and fit board support. AMD GPU.  Unity engine. HTML5 support. TV remote. Excellent browser. Legacy virtual console and future DS support. Low latency local wireless. NFC.

Offline Ian Sane

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I never said they would use the same architecture, I said they would build off of it which is what I interpret "absorb" to mean in this context.  They're talking about building off of it in some way, which I think is stupid as all hell.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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So what do you suppose they do?

throw everything out and reinvent their already existing and functional OS to completely start from scratch so that we can end up with another subpar feature stripped OS in 2 years time that wasn't ready for the hardware launch?

Or should they take the Wii U OS they have, strip it down to the bare necessities and rebuild it around the already established foundation that has been proven to work. and have a fully functional, feature packed OS ready to go when the next piece of hardware is in 2 years time.

Oh, and I forgot to mention (actually I didn't, I've already pretty much said it twice) that this new OS needs to bring the current customers over to the New Hardware with all their current Nintendo stuff in tact.

Unless you are thinking that they are going to beef up the chipset (like GC->Wii) and rerelease the console again, I don't see the issue with Nintendo tweaking their Windows Vista (current Wii U OS) to turn it into Windows 7 (Wii U OS 2.0) and then launching their Win 8.2 on the next hardware.

Offline BranDonk Kong

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Yeah I don't see them going with any .NET language until Microsoft buys the company. Java in itself isn't all that great for games, but it can be built upon like Android Java. C# would be nice though.
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Offline RedBlue

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Not going to happen with the  c# and Java stuff. They are both too slow hence why Android is so slow.

Once again Ian sane shows he doesn't understand anything about technology. Iwata is clearly talking about their engines. The future hardware will share similar architecture so they can use the same engines they have now and scale them to fit the device. They will also be able to develop high resolution assets and scale them.  They been doing the same thing since the gamecube days.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 09:49:42 PM by RedBlue »

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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What about this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Web_Framework
Quote
Nintendo Web Framework (codenamed bamboo) is a development environment based on WebKit technologies. It is used to develop video games for on the Wii U system using many different languages, including: HTML5, JavaScript, and CSS. Also, this framework supports the Wii U GamePad controller, Wii Remote controllers, and some other JavaScript extensions.[1]

On October 2013, Ubiquitous Entertainment announced that their smartphone Javascript framework “enchant.js” has been customized to work in connection with Nintendo Web Framework. One of the games to currently use enchant.js for Nintendo Web Framework is a shooting game called Glandarius WingStrike for Wii U.[2]

Does this have anything to do with the OS, or is this strictly for the game development?

Offline RedBlue

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That's for creating Web browser content (games). That could be a way to bridge different hardware architectures (ARM, powerful and x86/x64) it would be something like Chrome OS and chrome Web browser. Build a Chrome app and it works on any platform that chrome works in.

Offline smallsharkbigbite

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12/31/15 could be a potential date for either a replacement for Wii U or 3DS.  If sales are still strong I don't believe they will replace the 3DS at that time. 


Things I picked up from the Q&A.


Don't expect powerful hardware..... pretty much ever.  They've fully embraced software over hardware and aren't going back.  When asked to clarify the power to the market Genyo said, " Whether a machine is powerful or not only has meaning in the context of whether that can express itself in terms of gameplay to consumers, and I therefore do not intend to go into fine detail about the specific numbers. I apologize for not directly answering your question, but it is my personal belief that explanations of such a nature have little relevance to consumers."


So hardware power is not relevant to you.  Stop asking for more powerful hardware. 


Don't expect M&A...... for now.  It seems the previous openness to M&A was due to keeping options open rather than any targets.  Iwata, "Currently, our video game dedicated platform business is reaching a transition stage in several different meanings, and we would like to have the option of using our shares for M&A purposes. We will not cling to this option for a long time, and when the transition stage ends, retirement of shares would be one option. "


The buyback shares will probably be retired. 


No hybrid.... rather lots of hardware under the same O/S.  Iwata, "Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS."


There are two ways he could be looking at this.  1.  They could have various handhelds (I.E. console level handheld, middle powered handheld, cheap handheld) or they could have an annual release of hardware like Apple does.  So you have Nintendo console 1, Nintendo console 2 the next year will upgrades.  The year after that Nintendo console 3.  Software is interesting then.  Would all software be playable under all models (scalable) or would they use an IOS model where Ipad 2 can play most games but you would need an Ipad 5 to play intensive games.  I tend to think the latter.  This is why 2015 could be the Wii U replacement since they are building off that O/S.  The Wii U could still be applicable for a while after being replaced if only a few of the future games can't play on the Wii U. 


Nintendo isn't going to say it, but I expect a reduction in the manpower at Nintendo.  Iwata, "s for the QOL (Quality of Life)-improving platform, I made some slides which explain how Nintendo came up with this idea. These are examples of something ordinary turning into a hit product with the power of applications. In 1980, we released “GAME & WATCH,” which, I am told, was an idea that was born from watching people use calculators. “GAME & WATCH” was made by adding an application to a watch, and this is the origin of the current handheld games. "


This leads me to believe they are not entirely sure what they are doing with QOL, but just know they want to do something fitness related.  But what is interesting is this was in response to manpower.  It's well known Iwata doesn't want to lay off, but he hasn't committed to hiring additional people to support his QOL platform either which is supposedly a big future endeavor.  So I expect that resources will be allocated to QOL, fewer games will be made, but they'll mask it by having those games playable on console/handheld hardware so it looks to console owners like at least as many games are being made. 


Two other quotes that suggest Nintendo is convinced the video game industry is shrinking and they are inclined to shrink with it. 


Miyamoto, " Therefore, I feel that we have managed to overcome the challenge of releasing enough first-party franchises on Wii U. "


The Wii U was well supported from a software perspective.  Don't expect future iterations to get more support. 
Couldn't find the exact quote, but Iwata said something similar to they were buying back shares because they couldn't give investors the types of dividends they had in the past. 


Expect Nintendo software to become more basic (lowest common denominator).  Iwata, "The reason we talked about such points today was because there are many consumers who are perhaps not so interested in games but are passionate about trying something interesting, and, in expanding the gaming population, we are considering how we can get our messages across to these consumers, create ties with them and develop an environment in which it is easy for them to participate." 


Expect the focus to continue to be on non-gamers and somehow replicating the success of the Wii. 


I know some people are taking snipets out to get excited about what they perceive as the new Nintendo.  But it appears to me like they are going to amplify all the things that core gamers aren't excited about at Nintendo.

Offline Adrock

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Good God Lemon, I certainly hope Nintendo doesn't transition into yearly hardware models. I don't care if they're scalable. That takes away one of the major strengths of a non-PC gaming platform. And I'm not terribly convinced any company can begin to even fathom how to explain that to consumers, especially Nintendo who had trouble explaining Wii U is the successor to Wii. "Oh, it's just like iPads and iPhones." Well, a lot more people buy those than game consoles and handhelds. I have doubts the same structure can work in the gaming industry.
The Wii U was well supported from a software perspective.
I thoroughly enjoy Wii U and even I'm struggling to find a way to support this statement.