Topic: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)

[broodwars]

Well, here's hoping that Guardians 3 is more like the 1st movie & not the mediocre mess that Guardians 2 was.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Next time Disney should investigate before reacting, then they can save face instead of having to about face.

I knew Feige would fix it all, but not sure why they kept it under wraps for so long. Could've prevented him from throwing DC a bone and attempting to "fix" SS, or giving any input towards correcting the DCEU.

But JG will now be the 1st and only director to complete an MCU trilogy, even though he got fired first.

I wonder who'll be the first to do it without interruption.

[Shorty McNostril]

Assuming one is happy to count entries 3-5 as a trilogy, the Russo Brothers probably.  Depending on when Avengers 5 happens.  It probably won't be happening for some time though.  Giving the current events some time to breathe.

[Adrock]

I knew Feige would fix it all, but not sure why they kept it under wraps for so long.

Maybe Disney/Feige wanted to give the alt-right clowns who started this in the first place enough time to move on to something else to be faux-outraged about.

It’s only right that Gunn gets to finish his story and continue to oversee the cosmic side of the MCU.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Maybe, but I knew after the successes Feige had repeatedly had with the MCU, after he got Marvel Studios removed from the reach of Perlmutter, that he had to have enough pull to dictate reconsideration on such a rash and unjust firing of one of his employees on one of his properties that didn't involve any of his input before being enacted.
Didn't seem right.

[ThePerm]

Well, here's hoping that Guardians 3 is more like the 1st movie & not the mediocre mess that Guardians 2 was.

Guardians 2 was awesome. Was a tear jerker.

[broodwars]

Well, here's hoping that Guardians 3 is more like the 1st movie & not the mediocre mess that Guardians 2 was.

Guardians 2 was awesome. Was a tear jerker.

I thought it felt like 2 disparate movies being crammed into one, a "day in the life of the Guardians" story and the "Ego" story, and I didn't think they meshed together. I also felt that the Ego heel turn would have been better paced if it was left for the 3rd movie rather than forcing it into the end of the 2nd movie to create a climax.  Likewise, I felt like I'd have had more emotional attachment to what they did with Yondu if he'd have had more screen time.

Since Gunn knew that Thanos was going to be dealt with in the Avengers series, there's no reason the 2nd movie had to rush to close off as many story possibilities as it did rather than building them up in the 2nd film to pay off in the 3rd. I'd have been totally happy if the entire movie was just about dealing with that asshole empire they pissed off at the start of the film. Do an actual "day in the life of the Guardians" story with the focus on character development that the 2nd movie ALMOST does before it pivots to the Ego heel turn. DON'T do the "end of all worlds" sky beam Ego nonsense that's been done to DEATH in superhero movies.

[ShyGuy]

Glad to see James Gunn is back, people shouldn't be trapped by mistakes of the past.

[oohhboy]

I knew Feige would fix it all, but not sure why they kept it under wraps for so long.

Maybe Disney/Feige wanted to give the alt-right clowns who started this in the first place enough time to move on to something else to be faux-outraged about.

It’s only right that Gunn gets to finish his story and continue to oversee the cosmic side of the MCU.

I seriously doubt they thought that far ahead or 4D chess and why would you look to placate alt-right clowns? While they pulled the trigger it's the usual twitter mob that everyone fears. This time it worked against them with support for Gunn instead of his head. Whether that was due to the firing or not we will never know. No doubt the cast and crew coming out in support especially with Dave Bautista doing so unconditionally changed the narrative enough for it not to go down the awful road it usually does.

If I was Gunn I would be pissed off enough to demand time off so I wouldn't have to kill the idiot. Then there are his contractual obligations from his poaching which happened fast that needs to be met like finishing SS and negotiations with DC to get him back. Having to pay extra to DC for Gunn to leave SS would be a dick move on a dick to move DC and Gunn fans requiring Gunn to be a mercenary.

Gunn back is good, by his boss needs his feet in the fire for awhile.

Nice to hear even though all of this was unnecessary.

So how much apology money did they pay him?

I heard his contract was pay or play so Disney was paying him either way. I wonder if getting fired meant Disney had to rehire him or just adhere to the original contract.

The original contract had played out when he was fired. They would have to renegotiate and Gunn would be in a pretty good position to make demands for himself or creatively or budget or for the production in general like more pay for everyone as they would have lost out on top of being completely unplanned.

[Adrock]

I seriously doubt they thought that far ahead or 4D chess and why would you look to placate alt-right clowns?

Placate isn’t the phrasing I’d use, more like ride out the “controversy” if anyone can even call it that. The alt-right started this and they didn’t really care about 10 year old tweets. Cernovich and his goons were as surprised as everyone else that they’re moaning worked. They aren’t invested enough to cause a ruckus now. What we all thought would happen last summer ended up happening. If Disney just waited patiently, no one would care except it took like seven months instead of two weeks because Alan Horn panicked and fired James Gunn.

The original contract had played out when he was fired. They would have to renegotiate and Gunn would be in a pretty good position to make demands for himself or creatively or budget or for the production in general like more pay for everyone as they would have lost out on top of being completely unplanned.

It’s still unclear without knowing the details of Gunn’s contract. What’s the context of “fired” especially with a pay or play contract? Disney postponed Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 and presumably hadn’t even started looking for a replacement. A pay or play contract suggests to me that Disney can compel Gunn to direct the movie whenever it wants though it can’t stop him from working in the meantime. Or maybe Disney can but decided it had enough bad press/should act on good faith and allow Gunn to continue working on Suicide Squad 2.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I actually think it was Alan Horn that did the firing.

James Gunn did the sincere apology (again, as it had already been done long ago)
Bautista put his feelings on his sleeve, and his career (as Drax) on the line
Feige came in for "flextalks" with the Disney head honchos

Apparently Gunn came in for private discussions
Alan Horn "changed" his mind and unfired Gunn

and they kept it secret for months. the question I have is.... why?

[Adrock]

I actually think it was Alan Horn that did the firing.

Fine. Edited my post even though that was like the least important part of it. Iger could have reversed Horn’s decision but decided to stand by it.

and they kept it secret for months. the question I have is.... why?

Maybe to bury it behind Captain Marvel cleaning up at the box office and the Avengers: Endgame trailer. I’m curious too though I imagine Disney just doesn’t want to talk about it anymore.

[BlackNMild2k1]

You could be right about just wanting to bury the news, or maybe just waiting to clear the Captain Marvel release hurdles, and fill the middle space leading up to Endgame with some positive news... but

I know Gunn has indirectly responded to being indirectly "confronted" with the news on twitter (via Edgar Wright)

and I know Taika has joked about him thinking he was gonna do the movie (also on twitter)

But I don't think I've seen an actual response from Disney or James Gunn regarding any of this (not quite ready to make it official, or still hoping to just bury this as non-news?).
not that I don't believe it, just that I wonder why there isn't an official press release or thank you note from Gunn for everyone that stood by him and blah blah blah, especially now that the flergencat is out of the bag.

[oohhboy]

With the cast revolting and the public support for Gunn no other director was going to take the job. GotG was either Gunn or not at all. Disney did approach others but it was LOL NOPE. They all knew it was BS so they stood with him in solidarity.

[BranDonk Kong]

Looks like Captain Marvel is going to pass $700 million this weekend, after a 54% second weekend drop (slightly smaller drop that Infinity War), giving it the second biggest weekend for any March movie release. Pretty god damn good week for Disney/Marvel.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Captain Marvel is actually over $750M WW after its second weekend. $1B is pretty much guaranteed.
Gotta double check if that was on my Disney $Billions list or not. Lol

Edit: it wasn't.
I knew it would do good, but I guess apparently not this good.
She will soon be known as Queen Marvel.

[broodwars]

With the cast revolting and the public support for Gunn no other director was going to take the job. GotG was either Gunn or not at all. Disney did approach others but it was LOL NOPE. They all knew it was BS so they stood with him in solidarity.

I suspect this has more to do with Gunn being the head of their "space" initiative over at Marvel, which was what most of this next phase was going to be since they were losing almost all the actors from Phase 1.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Feige said Gunns involvement in future of Marvel Cosmos was over stated... That was after the firing, so he could've been downplaying the input just incase he didn't have the pull to reverse the firing. And of course not to diminish his own role as ultimate overseer of all things MCU.

[oohhboy]

Feige might be looking to go out on top. No way this streak is sustainable and he knows it. Through out all these years it has only been lately Marvel has looked shakey no doubt from the House of Mouse. With Star Wars burning through concrete he is definitely under pressure to perform as the other Super property.

I suspect this has more to do with Gunn being the head of their "space" initiative over at Marvel, which was what most of this next phase was going to be since they were losing almost all the actors from Phase 1.

If you were a serious director you wouldn't take the job. Not only would you be a scab you would be a mercenary scab for a completely unjustified firing. The cast is going to resist you. The fans are going to hate you. You are likely nowhere as suited as Gunn. You will have impossible expectations. You will become a pariah. You will get that pay check but you will be done.

I would be looking to "Lose" the big $ actors at this point as they are killing the budget. Plus it starts giving you room to 'break' continuity which has started by retconing Captain Marvel into MCU. Marvel has always been a bit meh on continuity but this would be the first blatant one that has me going??!?. After this the next phase might end up feeling like a soft reboot.

[BranDonk Kong]

Is Marvel looking shakey? Their latest origin story movie about a character who has never been on screen before is about to be their next billion dollar movie, and then it's Endgame, which could possibly break all previous records, followed by a guaranteed smash hit with Spider-Man. On top of that they just got the rights to X-Men and Fantastic Four...I don't think Disney has anything to worry about with Marvel for a long time. You can do a lot more with the MCU than you can with Star Wars, at least in the movies.

[Stratos]

What continuity issues did they add for Capt Marvel, Oohhboy? Or are you talking about slipping in new characters/actors in the past like they had been there all along?

I read some interesting quotes from Feige that Capt Marvel's OP nature in her film was on purpose to show her unleashed without any challenge, and that the fight against Thanos may be more difficult than people have been thinking, and her "OP nature" may have been overstated. I wonder if she'll go into fighting Thanos (or other surprise big-bad) and end up running into a surprise wall, and her arc in Endgame is about overcoming that wall.

Well, the point of this movie was to see her exactly as you said, unleashed, unchained. What happens when she taps into her full potential not being held back? So it was not the time to hold back. It was not the time to emphasize limitations or loss. We’d seen that over the course of the rest of the movie. We wanted to see her cut loose. In future stories, well, none of the Marvel characters are immortal. Even ones that seem immortal, some people might be very hard to kill, but nobody’s unkillable. So if we’re lucky enough to see future adventures with Captain Marvel, of course there will be limitations and there will be Achilles heels and there will be things that we learn and see that it’s not as easy as a slicing through whatever she wants to at any point. But this wasn’t the time to accentuate that.

[NWR_insanolord]

We've already established that oohhboy is unwilling to work even a little bit in order to resolve potential continuity errors.

[nickmitch]

The continuity is barely even tweaked.  Fury had the beeper on him during the battle of NY and Ultron, but he also had the Avengers, who kind of had it handled.  So, he might not have called her.  Plus, there's a notable gap in time between when Fury uses the beeper at the snap and when she shows up during Endgame.  Maybe a few days?  It's entirely possible/plausible that she was called during those other big fights and showed up too late.  The beeper thing isn't much of a stretch.

A better question is how Mar'Vel got the Teseract from Howard Stark.

[BranDonk Kong]

She could have easily had a Skrull whom she was helping disguise himself or herself as a Shield employee. No reason to spend too much time thinking about it. In fact, I think that's the easiest theory until another one is presented.

[oohhboy]

Oh, please, plenty of other shows have their own discontinuity but you never notice them because the shows are actually good. . The bad ones break your suspension of disbelieve, you stop buying into the world. When that happens your show has failed.

There is a difference between oh I can bend that to you just shattered the continuity including whatever just happened minutes before. That falls under "The wizard did it" level of writing where you're such a hack you write yourself into a corner and you just magic your way out only to start all over again. A big **** you to the viewer thinking you are too much of an idiot to notice.

All the Marvel movies and AoS share a problem where with a given threat you have to ask where the hell is everyone? AoS is really bad at this as they start fighting Avenger level threats. CM is this but on the other side of "Where have you been?". She could have just ended the previous movies but I guess Nick decided not to call her every time.

Maybe Nick doesn't call her because she's evil or something? They are going to have to mention something to explain where the hell she has been. Given the arbitrary speed of travel 'couldn't' get there in time is probably not going to cut it.

It's an aspect of the Superman problem, who needs anyone else if Supes can take care of it fully demonstrated with JL. Supergirl for the first 2 Seasons had to somehow write him out. Season one finale was lol when he shows up and instantly gets overpowered without a fight.

Also **** origin stories.

We've already established that oohhboy is unwilling to work even a little bit in order to resolve potential continuity errors.

Who is paying who here? The viewer should never have to work for the writer to fix their mistakes.